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#walmsleyout
- Thread starter Deej
- Start date
sydmariner
Well-Known Member
Rowdy
Well-Known Member
If we take this and run with it for hypothetical purpose;
Then why don't we see Hutcho up from the bench giving it to the team on a more regular basis ???
Giving direction, pulling players back into shape, warning of impending attacking threats ???
For a guy who isn't backward in giving his opinion, you'd think we'd be seeing Hutch doing this far more if it was truly him doing the actual coaching, wouldnt we ?
I don't see him doing this, in fact Walmsley doesn't even do it (but needs to). I dont think Hutcho is the pseudo Coach.
Gratis
Well-Known Member
Central Coast Mariners coach Tony Walmsley says club's thrifty ways end glory days
By DOMINIC BOSSI
Central Coast Mariners coach Tony Walmsley says the wooden spooners will unlikely be able to challenge for silverware in the future largely due to the club's unwillingness to spend beyond the bare minimum of the A-League salary cap.
The 2013 champions became the worst performing Australian side in the history of the A-League on Friday after slumping to their 19th defeat of the season and coach Walmsley says the club can't return to "unsustainable" squad expenditure under previous management.
Their 4-1 loss to Western Sydney Wanderers on Friday night ensures they cannot finish with more than 16 points during a season of thrifty spending on mostly youth players. The club's financial constraints were put in place to trim losses and while also providing opportunities for young talented players.
Sixteen players were given A-League debuts under Walmsley, who says the club cannot return to recruitment polices that led them to three grand finals, a premiership and a championship in the past.
"They won the league on an unsustainable financial input. We're now operating at the floor of the cap. They won the league with players like Patrick Zwaanswijk, Mile Sterjovski, John Hutchinson, Michael McGlinchey. These players are vastly more experienced than the troops we've got running around at the moment," Walmsley said.
"We're still operating at the floor of the cap so we still won't be able to compete with anybody else in the league for like-for-like talent, but what we can do is recruit players with the attributes that we need to make this squad as competitive as it needs to be."
Despite overseeing the poor season, Walmsley is likely to remain at the club beyond the end of the season. Fairfax Media understands he is in line for a contract extension due to his previous success in youth coaching, something that fit with the club's ambitions of developing young players.
"The problem is the challenge magnified when we made significant changes to the squad … we transitioned down a little bit because high earners went out and with what's left at the floor of the cap, you can bring in players who are inexperienced at this level," Walmsley said.
"The club's been in the best shape it's ever been in off the pitch. On the pitch, it's in the worst shape it's ever been in, so that's the next part of the journey."
http://m.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/ce...ifty-ways-end-glory-days-20160402-gnwoxr.html
Mariners coach Tony Walmsley has accepted responsibility for the club's worst ever A-League season.
"You've got to wear it, you've got to own it, I certainly do," Walmsley said, whose side have conceded an all-time league record 66 goals.
"It's my accountability, it's my team so it's about what's the solution and that's the bit that stimulates all of us.
"The club is in the best shape it's ever been off the pitch. On the pitch it's in the worst shape its ever been in, so that's the next part of the journey.
"We know with leaders and experience around some of these boys, who are showing in parts of games that they can compete, their learning will be accelerated."
The Mariners have fielded 16 debutants this season and Walmsley had hoped they would have adjusted to the A-League quicker.
The club was committed to fielding young talent after releasing at least half a dozen players earlier in the season including Eddy Bosnar, Liam Reddy and Nick Fitzgerald.
"The reality is we lost a lot of A-league games in the players that went out of the club and we replaced them with few A-League games and players with no reference point for the challenges that they've been faced with every week," Walmsley said.
"We genuinely believed the players would have moved quicker to standard than they have but the reality is they haven't.
"We really need leadership qualities at the back, we need leadership qualities and strength in midfield.
"We're looking at least four players with the right level of experience and from any part of the world, but obviously in our situation you can't make a recruitment error now."
Walmsley still has the stomach for the hard slog ahead despite saying it had been an incredibly tough season.
"We are uncomfortably assessing the season, we're looking at it with a great deal of discomfort, but it's just a reality check," Walmsley said.
https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/sport/a/31238877/mariners-coach-wears-blame-for-al-woes/
By DOMINIC BOSSI
Central Coast Mariners coach Tony Walmsley says the wooden spooners will unlikely be able to challenge for silverware in the future largely due to the club's unwillingness to spend beyond the bare minimum of the A-League salary cap.
The 2013 champions became the worst performing Australian side in the history of the A-League on Friday after slumping to their 19th defeat of the season and coach Walmsley says the club can't return to "unsustainable" squad expenditure under previous management.
Their 4-1 loss to Western Sydney Wanderers on Friday night ensures they cannot finish with more than 16 points during a season of thrifty spending on mostly youth players. The club's financial constraints were put in place to trim losses and while also providing opportunities for young talented players.
Sixteen players were given A-League debuts under Walmsley, who says the club cannot return to recruitment polices that led them to three grand finals, a premiership and a championship in the past.
"They won the league on an unsustainable financial input. We're now operating at the floor of the cap. They won the league with players like Patrick Zwaanswijk, Mile Sterjovski, John Hutchinson, Michael McGlinchey. These players are vastly more experienced than the troops we've got running around at the moment," Walmsley said.
"We're still operating at the floor of the cap so we still won't be able to compete with anybody else in the league for like-for-like talent, but what we can do is recruit players with the attributes that we need to make this squad as competitive as it needs to be."
Despite overseeing the poor season, Walmsley is likely to remain at the club beyond the end of the season. Fairfax Media understands he is in line for a contract extension due to his previous success in youth coaching, something that fit with the club's ambitions of developing young players.
"The problem is the challenge magnified when we made significant changes to the squad … we transitioned down a little bit because high earners went out and with what's left at the floor of the cap, you can bring in players who are inexperienced at this level," Walmsley said.
"The club's been in the best shape it's ever been in off the pitch. On the pitch, it's in the worst shape it's ever been in, so that's the next part of the journey."
http://m.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/ce...ifty-ways-end-glory-days-20160402-gnwoxr.html
Mariners coach Tony Walmsley has accepted responsibility for the club's worst ever A-League season.
"You've got to wear it, you've got to own it, I certainly do," Walmsley said, whose side have conceded an all-time league record 66 goals.
"It's my accountability, it's my team so it's about what's the solution and that's the bit that stimulates all of us.
"The club is in the best shape it's ever been off the pitch. On the pitch it's in the worst shape its ever been in, so that's the next part of the journey.
"We know with leaders and experience around some of these boys, who are showing in parts of games that they can compete, their learning will be accelerated."
The Mariners have fielded 16 debutants this season and Walmsley had hoped they would have adjusted to the A-League quicker.
The club was committed to fielding young talent after releasing at least half a dozen players earlier in the season including Eddy Bosnar, Liam Reddy and Nick Fitzgerald.
"The reality is we lost a lot of A-league games in the players that went out of the club and we replaced them with few A-League games and players with no reference point for the challenges that they've been faced with every week," Walmsley said.
"We genuinely believed the players would have moved quicker to standard than they have but the reality is they haven't.
"We really need leadership qualities at the back, we need leadership qualities and strength in midfield.
"We're looking at least four players with the right level of experience and from any part of the world, but obviously in our situation you can't make a recruitment error now."
Walmsley still has the stomach for the hard slog ahead despite saying it had been an incredibly tough season.
"We are uncomfortably assessing the season, we're looking at it with a great deal of discomfort, but it's just a reality check," Walmsley said.
https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/sport/a/31238877/mariners-coach-wears-blame-for-al-woes/
Gratis
Well-Known Member
Things that simply are and shall remain so for a long time to come:
The sun comes up each morning,
Grass is green,
Fire is hot,
Wombat blames Hutch for current problems.
I typically like and enjoy wombat's thoughts and views but the anti-Hutch rhetoric went beyond substantiated logic a long time ago
The sun comes up each morning,
Grass is green,
Fire is hot,
Wombat blames Hutch for current problems.
I typically like and enjoy wombat's thoughts and views but the anti-Hutch rhetoric went beyond substantiated logic a long time ago
MagpieMariner
Well-Known Member
Be careful what you wish for. Everyone wanted Moss out, so we got Walmsley.
FFC Mariner
Well-Known Member
Lawrie has ripped in on Facebook.
Doesn't like Walmsleys article 1 bit.
Interesting that it has had so many likes and supportive comments. If I was CCM I'd want him in the tent
Doesn't like Walmsleys article 1 bit.
Interesting that it has had so many likes and supportive comments. If I was CCM I'd want him in the tent
Ancient Mariner
Well-Known Member
Lawrie has moved on and is now a politician.
pjennings
Well-Known Member
The OP was obviously not aimed at the Lawrie era. For all the good Lawrie did as our foundation manager, and it was a lot, I have found his comments post GA self-serving rather than club-serving. If he can help out he should - but behind the scenes - not as a 'saviour' coming back to save us all. His previous offer to help the club was made in a public. It seemed to be done deliberately to annoy MC who has got rid of him as a club ambassador ( a wrong decision in itself). It put the club in a position where it had no choice but to reject his offer and back the current regime.
Is Lawrie likely to walk away from his new political career? I suspect not, and if not, what possible good can come from him getting involved again, unless he wants to act as an ambassador of the club. All he is doing now is acting like a lightning rod for anti-club venting and getting likes on his Facebook posts. Is that helping the club - no!!!
We all know the club is having it's worst season on record - it doesn't need Lawrie, who made his name on the Coast though the Mariners, galvanising support against the incumbents. To misquote Ron Burgundy - "Stay classy Lawrie"
Is Lawrie likely to walk away from his new political career? I suspect not, and if not, what possible good can come from him getting involved again, unless he wants to act as an ambassador of the club. All he is doing now is acting like a lightning rod for anti-club venting and getting likes on his Facebook posts. Is that helping the club - no!!!
We all know the club is having it's worst season on record - it doesn't need Lawrie, who made his name on the Coast though the Mariners, galvanising support against the incumbents. To misquote Ron Burgundy - "Stay classy Lawrie"
Forum Phoenix
Well-Known Member
Come on BA, they clearly tried to scramble, but it failed, like scrambling often does. Not being privy like everyone else, the plan looked to be:
* Have an open honest dialogue with the fans.
* Recruit multiple players with the limited means at their disposal to try and cover those who abandoned ship
* Recruit a marquee in order to try and inspire and help lead the younger players and excite the fans
* Change formation
* Change to counter attacking football
* Repeatedly tinker with the lineup
* Admit their shortcomings
* Promise to address issues and recruit experience
Im not arguing that most of it didn't work. But I do think it's important to work out and try and be accurate why. If I cold see clear indication in the coaching. I'd say so. I can't. I've explained why I think that is. So I'm genuinely interested in hearing some strong analysis that demonstrates why I'm wrong. We need to do better than "look at how shit we are" because of all the other well known contributing factors. What I've read so far, barring Rowdy's post about being too cavalier and not building from the back... there's nothing I think is accurate, usually because it doesn't go beyond the surface - and obviously no good if it's just emotional, jaded or a blanket statement.
I'm not a fan boy, I stated on here before a ball was kicked that I felt like the squad was clearly lacking before we lost Reddy, Bosnar, Fitz and Caceres, and after the pre season revolt, I thought our fate looked sealed without some serious player investment... and even then...
"Are you seriously saying no coach is capable of improving our defensive structure with the current squad ... Over one and a half seasons ... tis not like he started last month he has had one and a half seasons and our defensive structure is as poor if not worst now that the start of the season..."
Middy, this is simply not true. The structure has clearly improved, but the mistakes have not - and while they all contribute, they have been more common in the mids than in our back 4 in recent weeks... we do not keep possession and players have run straight through because the players are slow to react and take responsibility. NOT because the structure isn't there. I'm not saying I like it. It's even more galling to see two banks of four and the opposition go straight through them... but like I said, their anticipation is a step behind many of the players they are competing with. That isn't the coaching.
There has also been clear improvement in several of our youngsters - even some of the pundits admit that. But it still sees them well off the pace and leaking goals when they face up against players like Castelan, Topor-Stanley, Andreu (Sp?) Nichols etc...
Anyway, I respect peoples rights to disagree, and expect it on the back of that season, so not got going to waste more of mine or anyone else's time in further trying to convince people that the youngest ever HAL team is unsurprisingly making an abundance of mistakes, and that player mistakes usually have nothing to do with the coaching.
So I do feel sorry for Walmsley. Seems like a good man who has tried hard with a shit hand to me. But as the results are appalling, there's little surprise most want him out. Not going to be easy to get past this. Only a transformed winning team will do it. And if this forum is any indication, it doesn't matter what I think, as fans seem unwilling to weigh up all the mitigating circumstances and give him the chance...
Last edited:
Gratis
Well-Known Member
This is my thinking too - there is little direct evidence of poor coaching and it's usually superficial 'we lose bad' stuff.
As I've said several times now (see other post https://www.ccmfans.net/community/threads/r26-ccm-v-wsw-away.5870/page-5) the evidence is weak both for and against coaching skill and so calling for his head is not justifiable.
Using 'we lose a lot' for evidence doesn't cut it. Youth league squad with tonnes of injuries, suspensions and players lost will only have one result.
This says it all-
FP: "There has also been clear improvement in several of our youngsters - even some of the pundits admit that. But it still sees them well off the pace and leaking goals when they face up against players like Castelan, Topor-Stanley, Andreu (Sp?) Nichols etc..."
As I've said several times now (see other post https://www.ccmfans.net/community/threads/r26-ccm-v-wsw-away.5870/page-5) the evidence is weak both for and against coaching skill and so calling for his head is not justifiable.
Using 'we lose a lot' for evidence doesn't cut it. Youth league squad with tonnes of injuries, suspensions and players lost will only have one result.
This says it all-
FP: "There has also been clear improvement in several of our youngsters - even some of the pundits admit that. But it still sees them well off the pace and leaking goals when they face up against players like Castelan, Topor-Stanley, Andreu (Sp?) Nichols etc..."
Ancient Mariner
Well-Known Member
Thanks FP, like Dibo yours is a voice of reason in the wilderness.
I must admit I am getting sick and tired of all the fans who are just screaming "We are losing, we are shit, sack everyone, DO SOMETHING".
Like you I have seen a great improvement in our play over the past few games (even Izzo's) but not an improvement in the number of mistakes made (Izzo again) which leads to the defeats. That is mainly inexperience and can only be fixed by gaining experience (either in years, or adding experienced players) which has been acknowledged by management.
YOU CANNOT COACH EXPERIENCE.
The writing was on the wall for the rest of the season and anyone who had not written this season off then was just dreaming.
Likewise if any are hoping for a result before the end of the season they are hoping for a miracle. If you are sitting behind the goals and do not have access to replays there is not much I can recommend.
I just wish a lot of the complainers would study the replays and the way in which individuals are responding and how they have changed over time, and how the team's play has improved, rather than just looking at the scoreboard and going off.
And as a thought for those who want Walmsley out maybe Arnie will be available at the end of the season. His record this year with a big budget was not great, I wonder how he would cope without the dollars to spend.
I am happy to sit tight and make my judgements on what improvements I see next year. I do not expect silver wear the budget is simply not there. I do expect a competitive team finishing around the middle with good and bad games but heading in the right direction. I also hope to see a club that is growing stronger and able to stand on its own two feet and then attract more solid investors, rather than simply to survive on the largesse and ego of some billionaire whose fortunes and whims change with the seasons.
For those who want instant gratification sorry you are at the wrong place.
In the meantime try to analyse rather than complain and learn to redirect the anger you will live longer.
See you all here next season.
I must admit I am getting sick and tired of all the fans who are just screaming "We are losing, we are shit, sack everyone, DO SOMETHING".
Like you I have seen a great improvement in our play over the past few games (even Izzo's) but not an improvement in the number of mistakes made (Izzo again) which leads to the defeats. That is mainly inexperience and can only be fixed by gaining experience (either in years, or adding experienced players) which has been acknowledged by management.
YOU CANNOT COACH EXPERIENCE.
The writing was on the wall for the rest of the season and anyone who had not written this season off then was just dreaming.
Likewise if any are hoping for a result before the end of the season they are hoping for a miracle. If you are sitting behind the goals and do not have access to replays there is not much I can recommend.
I just wish a lot of the complainers would study the replays and the way in which individuals are responding and how they have changed over time, and how the team's play has improved, rather than just looking at the scoreboard and going off.
And as a thought for those who want Walmsley out maybe Arnie will be available at the end of the season. His record this year with a big budget was not great, I wonder how he would cope without the dollars to spend.
I am happy to sit tight and make my judgements on what improvements I see next year. I do not expect silver wear the budget is simply not there. I do expect a competitive team finishing around the middle with good and bad games but heading in the right direction. I also hope to see a club that is growing stronger and able to stand on its own two feet and then attract more solid investors, rather than simply to survive on the largesse and ego of some billionaire whose fortunes and whims change with the seasons.
For those who want instant gratification sorry you are at the wrong place.
In the meantime try to analyse rather than complain and learn to redirect the anger you will live longer.
See you all here next season.
soccer mad
Well-Known Member
My views on TW OUT is based on analytical points I just can't bare to watch the shit football week in week out ,I feel more for the players that haven't had proper leadership and management all season, I have seen enough to know TW is not a master tactician in football . And now where on the hunt for new recruitment for the coming season , now what players will want to play for the mariners under the management of TW . There's no doubt that he's a nice bloke and probably a gentleman, but football is a biusnes and results effects the biusnes right across the board from membership, merchandise, sponcership, ect ect and my opinion stands TW is bad biusness. TW OUT NOW
Gratis
Well-Known Member
Quality evidence provided for your argument - I'm completely convinced.
Literally every word you just said was debunked in FP and AM's posts.
You're entitled to your opinion but when your argument is nothing more than "shit football" then it's hard to take it seriously.
midfielder
Well-Known Member
FP
We agree to disagree me thinks.. we just conceded 4 goals to a team struggling to score.. we have conceded more goals than any other team ever in the league even NQF who had a longer season... I think we hold the title of the only team in a season not to have a clean sheet ... our goal average per game will take some beating...
I don't want to loose TW just return him to where he was arguably the best in the league ..
Remember this is a salary capped league ..
We agree to disagree me thinks.. we just conceded 4 goals to a team struggling to score.. we have conceded more goals than any other team ever in the league even NQF who had a longer season... I think we hold the title of the only team in a season not to have a clean sheet ... our goal average per game will take some beating...
I don't want to loose TW just return him to where he was arguably the best in the league ..
Remember this is a salary capped league ..
FFC Mariner
Well-Known Member
Interesting summation of TW's recent post game interviews on FB by a guy who reviews interviews for a living.
I don't know how you link to a comment in a post but somewhat damning for someone who prides themselves on being a "leader"
Even funnier are relatives of Reddy getting very upset about the "alleged" assault story being outed.
First time I've seen it in print and if I was CCM I'd be deleting that quick smart. Lol
I don't know how you link to a comment in a post but somewhat damning for someone who prides themselves on being a "leader"
Even funnier are relatives of Reddy getting very upset about the "alleged" assault story being outed.
First time I've seen it in print and if I was CCM I'd be deleting that quick smart. Lol
FFC Mariner
Well-Known Member
I can think of a few reasons why kicking the shit out of CCM has strategic merit for LM.
Front man for any future Consortium when/of Charlesworth wants out is one.
Not saying it's right but I can see why he might do it.
Hell hate no fury like a founding coach scorned.
Oh well, at least he isn't their landlord or anything.
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