tim...
Well-Known Member
From what I've seen of Shaun's reactions on Twitter and even at the ground last night he's well aware how bad this is and will be making plenty of noise with FFA.
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R11 CCM v WSW at Gosford
- Thread starter tim...
- Start date
Well i had a good night but i still wanted to be there after having to tell my WSW mate they are up 1-0 to Santalab who always scores against us (6 hrs no goals for WSW of course it would be him against us), your up 2-0 (get me another drink PLEASE). Oh we are down to 9 (another drink PLEASE).
Mrs driving home from enemy territory. So read fox sports
Crowd 7,000 WTF on sat night against WSW. Who didn’t turn up? Them us or both?
VAR over turns yellows to red - Oh no
Read Paulo’s comments - oh o (can’t wait to read forum)
Mrs left for work. Do you want me to wait till you get home to watch? No way she says
Views Paulo’s press conference and he went there. Melb City No VAR last week and then tonight. ITS BECAUSE WE ARE MARINERS (finishes with I suppose to try avoiding the fine but it’s already been emailed).
Obviously with out God we are shit.
Now to watch the game and I’ll probably still get angry and i know what’s coming
Mrs driving home from enemy territory. So read fox sports
Crowd 7,000 WTF on sat night against WSW. Who didn’t turn up? Them us or both?
VAR over turns yellows to red - Oh no
Read Paulo’s comments - oh o (can’t wait to read forum)
Mrs left for work. Do you want me to wait till you get home to watch? No way she says
Views Paulo’s press conference and he went there. Melb City No VAR last week and then tonight. ITS BECAUSE WE ARE MARINERS (finishes with I suppose to try avoiding the fine but it’s already been emailed).
Obviously with out God we are shit.
Now to watch the game and I’ll probably still get angry and i know what’s coming
I didn’t feel inclined to post anything last night as emotions were too raw and I wanted to try to add something meaningful to the debate.
Well, in all my years of following football both here and overseas, I can honestly say I have never seen anything quite like the events of last night. I have also never seen so many Mariners’ fans leave the stadium before the final whistle. I was tempted myself but couldn’t bring myself to desert the boys, as there was no way they could be blamed for what happened. In fact, I personally thought that boys put in a huge shift when they went down to 9 and it wouldn’t have been right not to stay and respect that effort.
The boys looked absolutely crushed at the final whistle and I also saw fans with tears in their eyes, which showed just how deeply affected everyone was at the injustice that had just occurred. As someone who was a strong advocate for the introduction of technology into the game, I am utterly dismayed at the way it is typically being utilised in games across the A League. There are occasions when it plays an important role in correcting an error (the City goal and Muscat’s red card on Friday night for example) but the incident with Bobô was bizarre and I gather there was controversy with a penalty award in the Jest game. That said, surely nobody would have foreseen the dramas that were to unfold in our game.
Us Mariners’ fans have long suspected that there is an underlying institutional bias towards the so-called bigger teams and whether that is real or not, surely the club needs to ask Mr O’Rourke for a please explain after what transpired last night. I am not suggesting that we lost the game solely because of the VAR but it clearly cost our team any chance of competing. I do not believe there have any other examples of referee’s yellow cards being ‘upgraded’ to reds, so we are all entitled to an explanation as to why this occurred on two occasions last night and only to fouls committed by Mariners players, when at least three fouls committed by WSW were arguably as bad if not worse than the two in question, which only fuels the bias debate. The referee saw all five incidents and issued yellow cards but only the two against our players were singled out for further sanction by the VAR, hmmmmm strange coincidence that eh? That we yet again had a novice referee appointed was no surprise and in truth, I thought he had a reasonable game up until the intervention of VAR but it is certainly questionable as to why Shaun Evans felt the need to undermine Mr King’s role by suggesting he had been too lenient in his punishment of those two tackles but seemingly not on others. Furthermore, is a junior referee honestly going to fail to respond to advice from a supposedly senior referee? Not if he wants to continue to officiate on the National stage he isn’t!
Why can’t use of the VAR be restricted simply to key decisions involving penalty or goal decisions, as that is surely where it is most needed. It seems that the way in which it is being utilised at present varies from game to game and it is utterly detracting from the game instead of enhancing it. The FFA already has enough issues to address around the game as it is and if it can’t get its house in order, we are all headed down a short road to oblivion as far as football in Australia is concerned. Unfortunately, the VAR is, in my opinion, a very visible example of how generally poorly run the whole game is under the present administration. Perhaps it is time for a change and an opportunity to let football people not corporate suits run our game, so it can truly be moved forward year on year?
I was pleased to hear Paolo comment on big team bias in his press conference, which I thought he conducted with real dignity, when his emotions must have been in utter turmoil. There is no question that the little teams have always got the thin end of the wedge from officials and the FFA from day one and who knows if that will ever truly change? The sad thing is that FOX would have been loving what transpired at CCS last night, as it gave them some priceless content, so don’t expect the broadcaster to advocate for fair play any time soon!
Setting all the peripheral issues aside, we lost to a Wanderers side that were simply hungrier than we were on the night and so the club will somehow need to cut through the fog of all the controversy to work out what we did wrong last night and how to fix that before we play Adelaide on Boxing Day. If there is any true justice, McGing’s red will be rescinded but I honestly can’t see Brama getting a reprieve. It’s just a shame that those challenges by the Wanderers won’t get reviewed and appropriate punishments administered, so they will ultimately benefit from their unsporting conduct, whilst our team gets kicked to the gutter. Normal service has been resumed I would say.
I would however like to finish on a more positive note, by saying that the boys were magnificent in their efforts when they were down to 9 men, it’s just a shame we couldn’t have shown that same resolve when we had 11 players on the field.
I also happened to bump into Mustafa Amini just before the game, as he had come to watch his old team. I just wonder what he made of last night’s proceedings? As Europe is also awaiting the outcome of the VAR trial, his opinion would have been interesting.
Hopefully Paolo won’t have to look far for things to galvanise the boys for our Boxing Day fixture and hopefully the events of last night will inspire our boys to respond as WSW did last night to their humiliation in the derby the week before.
Unfortunately, the whole game was the real loser last night, which has truly saddened me both as a Mariners fan and a football one.
Well, in all my years of following football both here and overseas, I can honestly say I have never seen anything quite like the events of last night. I have also never seen so many Mariners’ fans leave the stadium before the final whistle. I was tempted myself but couldn’t bring myself to desert the boys, as there was no way they could be blamed for what happened. In fact, I personally thought that boys put in a huge shift when they went down to 9 and it wouldn’t have been right not to stay and respect that effort.
The boys looked absolutely crushed at the final whistle and I also saw fans with tears in their eyes, which showed just how deeply affected everyone was at the injustice that had just occurred. As someone who was a strong advocate for the introduction of technology into the game, I am utterly dismayed at the way it is typically being utilised in games across the A League. There are occasions when it plays an important role in correcting an error (the City goal and Muscat’s red card on Friday night for example) but the incident with Bobô was bizarre and I gather there was controversy with a penalty award in the Jest game. That said, surely nobody would have foreseen the dramas that were to unfold in our game.
Us Mariners’ fans have long suspected that there is an underlying institutional bias towards the so-called bigger teams and whether that is real or not, surely the club needs to ask Mr O’Rourke for a please explain after what transpired last night. I am not suggesting that we lost the game solely because of the VAR but it clearly cost our team any chance of competing. I do not believe there have any other examples of referee’s yellow cards being ‘upgraded’ to reds, so we are all entitled to an explanation as to why this occurred on two occasions last night and only to fouls committed by Mariners players, when at least three fouls committed by WSW were arguably as bad if not worse than the two in question, which only fuels the bias debate. The referee saw all five incidents and issued yellow cards but only the two against our players were singled out for further sanction by the VAR, hmmmmm strange coincidence that eh? That we yet again had a novice referee appointed was no surprise and in truth, I thought he had a reasonable game up until the intervention of VAR but it is certainly questionable as to why Shaun Evans felt the need to undermine Mr King’s role by suggesting he had been too lenient in his punishment of those two tackles but seemingly not on others. Furthermore, is a junior referee honestly going to fail to respond to advice from a supposedly senior referee? Not if he wants to continue to officiate on the National stage he isn’t!
Why can’t use of the VAR be restricted simply to key decisions involving penalty or goal decisions, as that is surely where it is most needed. It seems that the way in which it is being utilised at present varies from game to game and it is utterly detracting from the game instead of enhancing it. The FFA already has enough issues to address around the game as it is and if it can’t get its house in order, we are all headed down a short road to oblivion as far as football in Australia is concerned. Unfortunately, the VAR is, in my opinion, a very visible example of how generally poorly run the whole game is under the present administration. Perhaps it is time for a change and an opportunity to let football people not corporate suits run our game, so it can truly be moved forward year on year?
I was pleased to hear Paolo comment on big team bias in his press conference, which I thought he conducted with real dignity, when his emotions must have been in utter turmoil. There is no question that the little teams have always got the thin end of the wedge from officials and the FFA from day one and who knows if that will ever truly change? The sad thing is that FOX would have been loving what transpired at CCS last night, as it gave them some priceless content, so don’t expect the broadcaster to advocate for fair play any time soon!
Setting all the peripheral issues aside, we lost to a Wanderers side that were simply hungrier than we were on the night and so the club will somehow need to cut through the fog of all the controversy to work out what we did wrong last night and how to fix that before we play Adelaide on Boxing Day. If there is any true justice, McGing’s red will be rescinded but I honestly can’t see Brama getting a reprieve. It’s just a shame that those challenges by the Wanderers won’t get reviewed and appropriate punishments administered, so they will ultimately benefit from their unsporting conduct, whilst our team gets kicked to the gutter. Normal service has been resumed I would say.
I would however like to finish on a more positive note, by saying that the boys were magnificent in their efforts when they were down to 9 men, it’s just a shame we couldn’t have shown that same resolve when we had 11 players on the field.
I also happened to bump into Mustafa Amini just before the game, as he had come to watch his old team. I just wonder what he made of last night’s proceedings? As Europe is also awaiting the outcome of the VAR trial, his opinion would have been interesting.
Hopefully Paolo won’t have to look far for things to galvanise the boys for our Boxing Day fixture and hopefully the events of last night will inspire our boys to respond as WSW did last night to their humiliation in the derby the week before.
Unfortunately, the whole game was the real loser last night, which has truly saddened me both as a Mariners fan and a football one.
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Ok so it used to be (maybe still is) that a yellow card couldn’t be over ruled by the MRP as far as suspension unless it was of the major variety (which if it was major it should have been missed or red)
My example is Roy’s head but. It was sanctioned later with a severe penalty. What was wrong with that system. Roy got away with something on field on the night but was severely punished as required by the MRP.
Now we have those same yellow cards being overruled in a game but they are 50/50 calls. 60/40 at worst. If they hadn’t been overruled by the VAR the MRP wouldn’t have had any scape to bring in a red and 1 game suspension.
Those calls must be left on the field.
Bobo should be suspended by the MRP. I bet he doesn’t.
Wow just saw Jets penalty. AU coach lost his nut and red carded. Never a penalty a all shoulder/chest. What was VAR doing
My example is Roy’s head but. It was sanctioned later with a severe penalty. What was wrong with that system. Roy got away with something on field on the night but was severely punished as required by the MRP.
Now we have those same yellow cards being overruled in a game but they are 50/50 calls. 60/40 at worst. If they hadn’t been overruled by the VAR the MRP wouldn’t have had any scape to bring in a red and 1 game suspension.
Those calls must be left on the field.
Bobo should be suspended by the MRP. I bet he doesn’t.
Wow just saw Jets penalty. AU coach lost his nut and red carded. Never a penalty a all shoulder/chest. What was VAR doing
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I think all fans can accept that a referee will make mistakes during the course of a game due to factors like his positioning, view and/or perception of an incident. That is just part of the game but the VAR should not be given any latitude, as they have the advantage of multiple angles and slow motion etc etc. So the key question is how can they still get decisions so totally wrong?
The VAR was supposed to reduce controversy not make it the focal point of every game ffs! Shaun Evans’ intervention last night was unwarranted and unnecessary and certainly not even-handed. If Brama’s challenge was worthy of upgrade, then Santalab’s was also. Similarly, if McGing’s tackle needed VAR intervention, then so did Llorente’s. The reality is that each was worthy of a yellow card and nothing more, although in both cases involving our boys being on the receiving end, they needed medical treatment, whereas the Wanderers’ players didn’t.
I would love to hear Mr Evans explain his actions in relation to each of those incidents last night but I am in no doubt that we will not be afforded that courtesy.
The VAR was supposed to reduce controversy not make it the focal point of every game ffs! Shaun Evans’ intervention last night was unwarranted and unnecessary and certainly not even-handed. If Brama’s challenge was worthy of upgrade, then Santalab’s was also. Similarly, if McGing’s tackle needed VAR intervention, then so did Llorente’s. The reality is that each was worthy of a yellow card and nothing more, although in both cases involving our boys being on the receiving end, they needed medical treatment, whereas the Wanderers’ players didn’t.
I would love to hear Mr Evans explain his actions in relation to each of those incidents last night but I am in no doubt that we will not be afforded that courtesy.
BrisRecky
I'm an idiot savant without the pesky savant bit
Indeed, it’s a disgrace that the refs / VAR are considered beyond reproach, I mean are they ever punished for similar stupidity ❓the only punishement for crap reffing is the fourth official job I guess
sydmariner
Well-Known Member
Statement from the Head of Hyundai A-League and Westfield W-League, Greg O’Rourke, in relation to the Video Assistant Referee (VAR)
“We accept that issues related to the Video Assistant Referee(VAR) are currently taking focus off the football and needs to be much better,” Mr O’Rourke said.
“As part of the worldwide trial of introducing the VAR to our game the Hyundai A-League has been challenged by consistency of its application. Whilst the protocol framework is clear that it is to be only used in four (4) areas namely Red Cards, Penalties, Goals and Mistaken identity it does not eliminate the need for interpretation in many of those cases.
“The case for its introduction is reinforced when the replays show clear errors like when the ball crossed the goal line on Friday night or when players are offside like a number of the incidents that have been corrected but is less clear when we get to poor tackles and deciding on whether it should be a yellow or red card. Some are very clear but others less so.
“The VAR is set to be introduced in more global leagues around the world next year and it is a case of getting it right rather than walking away from the trial. Most other Australian sports have been using technology and referees and umpires in the stands or central hubs for many years and have taken time to improve the systems.
“We are rightfully impatient as a sport to see this perfected much quicker and that is our aim as well. We will make some more changes to the way we approach the use of VAR in time for the next round.
“Contentious decisions by referees have always been talking points and will continue to some degree with or without VAR but it is important that game changing decisions have the benefit of the same reviews that the audience have in the stadiums or at home to improve accuracy. We are all looking for the same thing and that being that Football and our players remain the focus and not the VAR. We intend to deliver on that.”
“We accept that issues related to the Video Assistant Referee(VAR) are currently taking focus off the football and needs to be much better,” Mr O’Rourke said.
“As part of the worldwide trial of introducing the VAR to our game the Hyundai A-League has been challenged by consistency of its application. Whilst the protocol framework is clear that it is to be only used in four (4) areas namely Red Cards, Penalties, Goals and Mistaken identity it does not eliminate the need for interpretation in many of those cases.
“The case for its introduction is reinforced when the replays show clear errors like when the ball crossed the goal line on Friday night or when players are offside like a number of the incidents that have been corrected but is less clear when we get to poor tackles and deciding on whether it should be a yellow or red card. Some are very clear but others less so.
“The VAR is set to be introduced in more global leagues around the world next year and it is a case of getting it right rather than walking away from the trial. Most other Australian sports have been using technology and referees and umpires in the stands or central hubs for many years and have taken time to improve the systems.
“We are rightfully impatient as a sport to see this perfected much quicker and that is our aim as well. We will make some more changes to the way we approach the use of VAR in time for the next round.
“Contentious decisions by referees have always been talking points and will continue to some degree with or without VAR but it is important that game changing decisions have the benefit of the same reviews that the audience have in the stadiums or at home to improve accuracy. We are all looking for the same thing and that being that Football and our players remain the focus and not the VAR. We intend to deliver on that.”
Uses an example of it working with the city goal but no examples of the failure and no comment on our VAR decisions or Adelaide.
The only thing he got right is it’s taking away from the football.
The other codes still suffer from the same problems years later so use that to say we won’t use it, not an excuse to keep persisting
Back to the actual football. I’ve watched the first half.
They had one shot and scored. The goal was very similar to the goal conceded last week against City. Keeper released the ball quickly into our right defensive side while we scrabble back. Two goals from our own corner in two weeks.
This time WSW switched the ball back towards our left past all out retreating players. Wout goes switches to the runner instead if the ball. I can understand that decision but the ball needed to cut off and the runner would have had a tighter angle.
Kennedy was simply not expecting the shot and was caught out although it was a pin point shot from Santalab. Right in the corner as Kennedy needed to try cover the rest of the goal but being caught near post is a no no.
We have improved our set defense but are still very open when exposed on the break. We don’t know which players to take and how to shut it down. Needs more work like we have done on the high line shambles.
Apart from that they never looked likely except for the cross that Santalab was a metre away from just before halftime.
We had a lot of corners from pressure but Hoole butchered all of them. He has been hitting them poorly lately.
We were unlucky on the DDS tap in. Nice save with the touch by Vederan and the Pain curler was close but also a nice save.
McGing had some nice crosses and is getting better at that part of his game. Hoole ignored him on one break and turned it over trying to get a ball through there defense. He needs to trust McGing more.
We were more dominant in the half but got caught out Mariners style.
They had one shot and scored. The goal was very similar to the goal conceded last week against City. Keeper released the ball quickly into our right defensive side while we scrabble back. Two goals from our own corner in two weeks.
This time WSW switched the ball back towards our left past all out retreating players. Wout goes switches to the runner instead if the ball. I can understand that decision but the ball needed to cut off and the runner would have had a tighter angle.
Kennedy was simply not expecting the shot and was caught out although it was a pin point shot from Santalab. Right in the corner as Kennedy needed to try cover the rest of the goal but being caught near post is a no no.
We have improved our set defense but are still very open when exposed on the break. We don’t know which players to take and how to shut it down. Needs more work like we have done on the high line shambles.
Apart from that they never looked likely except for the cross that Santalab was a metre away from just before halftime.
We had a lot of corners from pressure but Hoole butchered all of them. He has been hitting them poorly lately.
We were unlucky on the DDS tap in. Nice save with the touch by Vederan and the Pain curler was close but also a nice save.
McGing had some nice crosses and is getting better at that part of his game. Hoole ignored him on one break and turned it over trying to get a ball through there defense. He needs to trust McGing more.
We were more dominant in the half but got caught out Mariners style.
Fishsdad
Well-Known Member
Mr O'Rourke, it's just not good enough to hide behind "consistency" and interpretation" as the real issues here. The A League has just lost a heap of credibility this week. Fans / ex-fans deserve that specific decisions be addressed.
Mr O'Rourke, how do you explain Jake McGing being given a straight Red for his tackle?
Mr O'Rourke, how do you explain Risdon not being given a Red for elbowing Liam Rose?
Mr O'Rourke, how do you explain Lorente staying on the field after his tackle? (interesting comparison to McGing's tackle).
Mr O'Rourke, how do you explain Santalab staying on the field after his butchery?
Mr O'Rourke, how do you explain the obvious error from last week when the VAR saw Hoole's foot stepped on within the Pen Area, and no action was taken?
And the problem's aren't all with our club...
How do you explain Bobo not being Red Carded via VAR review? (Surely no favouritism...)?
How do you explain the penalty for hand ball against the Adelaide player (Strain?) in the last minutes of the game against N'çastle?
To simply wave these away as problems with consistency and interpretation perpetuates the claims of fans that decisions are consciously biased (trying to avoid the term 'cheating') for some clubs and against others.
Mr O'Rourke, how do you explain Jake McGing being given a straight Red for his tackle?
Mr O'Rourke, how do you explain Risdon not being given a Red for elbowing Liam Rose?
Mr O'Rourke, how do you explain Lorente staying on the field after his tackle? (interesting comparison to McGing's tackle).
Mr O'Rourke, how do you explain Santalab staying on the field after his butchery?
Mr O'Rourke, how do you explain the obvious error from last week when the VAR saw Hoole's foot stepped on within the Pen Area, and no action was taken?
And the problem's aren't all with our club...
How do you explain Bobo not being Red Carded via VAR review? (Surely no favouritism...)?
How do you explain the penalty for hand ball against the Adelaide player (Strain?) in the last minutes of the game against N'çastle?
To simply wave these away as problems with consistency and interpretation perpetuates the claims of fans that decisions are consciously biased (trying to avoid the term 'cheating') for some clubs and against others.
Mr O’Rourke’s response. What is football
Psycho Chicken
Active Member
Bosnich was also blathering on about the city goal as justification for the VAR but that's just complete crap! We can have Goal Line Technology without all the other VAR apparatus ruining the game. I'd like to ask O'Rourke WTF are the FFA doing allowing our league to be used as a guinea pig? It was bleeding obvious at the very least we'd be subjected to teething problems. Once again, they've shown a monumental lack of respect for their very own competition and the people who care about it. It's time for the FFA to f#%* off and let an independent commission run the comp. Times up!!
Woollybutt
Well-Known Member
These are the questions I want answered too, whether it's by O'Rourke, King, Evans, or whoever's in charge of the refs these days. O'Rourke's statement was a complete cop out and looks like it's trying to shift the conversation to something less embarrassing. Hopefully the club can push hard for answers, but O'Rourke should really have the guts to talk to the fans, players, and coaches this crap affects rather than hiding behind prepared statements. I'd love to hear him come on the podcast and have to talk to real supporters.
If the Brama red stands then Bobo has to go for at least a week as well there simply can be no other decision.
O'Rourke, all other global leagues should look at how the VAR has ruined the A League a never even trial it , massive fail.
I saw a tweet last night, I cant remember who from that said Australian football died tonight and today thats exactly how it feels.
O'Rourke, all other global leagues should look at how the VAR has ruined the A League a never even trial it , massive fail.
I saw a tweet last night, I cant remember who from that said Australian football died tonight and today thats exactly how it feels.
VicMariner
Well-Known Member
I finally realize.....my NRL/AFL loving soccer hating mates have been right all along....Australian soccer IS a stinking pile of garbage.
Thanks Lowy and Gallop for setting me straight What a shit sport filthy soccer is.
How embarrassing is Aussie soccer now! I'm not going to mention or talk it up to people anymore. They should stay away.
No more VAR! FFA out!
At least there is still European football.
Thanks Lowy and Gallop for setting me straight What a shit sport filthy soccer is.
How embarrassing is Aussie soccer now! I'm not going to mention or talk it up to people anymore. They should stay away.
No more VAR! FFA out!
At least there is still European football.
Capn Gus Bloodbeard
Well-Known Member
I'm actually amazed - and pleased - at how many neutrals are about as disgusted at what happened in our match as we all are (especially in the context of the other VAR f**kups over the weekend).
As Okon said, I'm also disappointed that there wasn't a bigger deal made out of La Rocca last week - because that error was black and white - but we seem to have reached a tipping point.
And FFA don't even know how to promote the league when it's going well. They've got no chance whatsoever of effective damage control.
That 'statement' from that O'Rourke dickhead - I would have preferred silence myself. "Oh the VAR is important and we're all working to make it better". It's such a vague, meaningless PR response that it's contemptuous. Fans need more of a response than that - and it shows that none of those ivory tower dickheads have the foggiest idea what's going on or what the fans need. I didn't even know there was an O'Rourke an hour ago. Now I hate the smug bastard.
Meanwhile, The Den wanted a banner saying 'stop the rot' in their tifo. FFA banned it.
Pirate Pete
Well-Known Member
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