Mile Jedinak

[dibo]

that wasn't quite what i was saying, although in many other leagues it's commonplace for that info to come out. my point is why are we complaining about ruka's fee being higher when we're not really sure what mile's was.

Dibo, you know the club isn't about to divulge revenue like this transfer fee if it isn't obliged to, publicly. I'd suspect that if anyone other than Lyall or Peter went public on the actual deal they got for Mile, the person making the announcement would be gone from the club the next day.

The media's guesstimate possibly came from a journo who did ask someone and when mentioned a $800K figure or quoted a European news report quoted Euro$ figure, got told, 'thereabouts'.

Just accept that we got *some* $$ for Mile's transfer & that quite probably, Rukavystya's transfer from Perth netting them more.

You'll sleep better at night not worrying about the pedantic details of all this mate if you just accept the fact that like all of us on this forum, save for the few with media accreditation or friends and relatives within the club, we are nevilles to them........

FFS clarence, read my posts again. i'm saying we shouldn't be whinging, particularly given we don't know the actual number. i'm happy for mile and the club. it was the right move for (presumably) the right price.

 

[serious14]

how do you know that this was the first offer for Mile?

I said "first sign on $'s", not first offer.  For all we know, we could have gotten a $150 000 offer from some random Romanian club......  I just think this wasn't the best decision we could have made.

 

[clarence]

has the club actually given a figure for the mile transfer? how do we know what we got?

This was your original question.

EVERYONE else had accepted the figures quoted, for better or worse, because we knew we couldn't get closer to the truth of the deal without breaching good friendships, or close media contacts. Except you, of course, who had to pursue the factuality in a situation where we couldn't get better corroborating sources to publicly come forward.

Hence my comment to accept the situation, like everyone else here has, and debate the Mile vs. Nikita comparison instead.

 

[dibo]

has the club actually given a figure for the mile transfer? how do we know what we got?

This was your original question.

EVERYONE else had accepted the figures quoted, for better or worse, because we knew we couldn't get closer to the truth of the deal without breaching good friendships, or close media contacts. Except you, of course, who had to pursue the factuality in a situation where we couldn't get better corroborating sources to publicly come forward.

Hence my comment to accept the situation, like everyone else here has, and debate the Mile vs. Nikita comparison instead.

uh huh...

what's the point of debate (and in some quarters, self-flagellation) over a figure that seems to come from no source? it's just received wisdom. it's a meaningless figure, but for the fact that some people have accepted that it 'sounds about right'. it's an undisclosed fee, we don't know what it is, so unless something comes up we shouldn't beat ourselves up because of what someone else got.

 

[brett]

Dibo makes a fair point, clarence. We can all have a hypothetical debate about what number jersey Carney should wear just because the media reports that he's as good as signed. But until the club confirms the signing, it's just hypothetical.

It's fine to have a hypothetical discussion based around the reported $800k figure, about whether we think it was enough or not, but (as some have done) taking it as fact and abusing the club over it with no confirmation that that is the TRUE figure is possibly going too far.

PS I have to agree with dibo because he lets me watch his Foxtel sometimes.

 

[Sean]

how do you know that this was the first offer for Mile?

I said "first sign on $'s", not first offer.  For all we know, we could have gotten a $150 000 offer from some random Romanian club......  I just think this wasn't the best decision we could have made.

He was going whether we liked it or not. I wouldve loved for him to stay and guide us through the finals, and I feel for him to stay with us during the ACL was asking far too much. I feel it was more his choice than the clubs with the dollars waved in our face.

This leads to me to four questions regarding his future prospects;
i) can anyone name players that have gone on from Genc to a higher/better quality league?
ii) how does the best leagues in the world regard the AFC and ACL when scouting for players?
iii) would Mile have had better exposure in the ACL?
iv) why Genc? Is Pim connected with them somehow and maybe has given Jedi a foot in the door to Europe and possibly/hopefully a socceroos spot?

 

[brett]

*shakes head*

Poor decision from all concerned to let Mile go.  Someones eyes lit up with $$$ signs and it was a case of "sell sell sell".   An even worse decision from a footballing perspective.

Nah. You need to detach your Man Utd fandom from your CCM fandom dude. We can't win every match, and we can't keep all the players we want.

And that is why the A-League will continue to be viewed as nothing more than a Turkish League/Dutch League/English Championship nursey.   We've got to make this a place where players from overseas who aren't 38 and shit want to come and play, and we've also got to make it a place where players go "oh, a chance to play ACL - I like", and our younger players go "you know what, it's worth sticking around here".

Selling at the first sign of $'s is not going to help the A-League achieve this.   Personally, I'm devo that Nikita is leaving..... he's a kickarse player, and watching him at Perth was very enjoyable.  He was also the key to them mounting an _actual_ charge at the finals next season.

Do y'understand what I'm getting at??  (yes, it's a selfish viewpoint, but f*ck it, this league has gotten a reputation as a retirement home, and I don't like it)

For the moment, you have to be happy with where things are going. There has always been a player drain, but now the clubs are netting $1m transfer fees. Bigger clubs are scouting down here, and we have more bargaining power. It sucks we lost our best player, but on the whole the A-League is definitely strengthening. The imports are getting better and now Jason Culina is coming.

I also don't like the defeatist attitude that our league is way down the pecking order and always will be so. I think our league can go far. I will keep this short, but I think the slow shift in power towards Asia will continue and speed up. The IPL cricket showed the sheer potential in terms of $ and attention that Asia can achieve when it harnesses its massive population. Asia loves football. East Asians love Australia. If more football power shifts to Asia, and Australia maintains its continental strength, we're going to ride Asia's coattails to the top. Think Culina being followed back by Cahill and Kewell, and think crazy TV audiences and appeal in the Asian Champions League.

That's the A-League's path to the stop. The way forward is not blocking Mile Jedinak from earning 10x what he does here and preventing him from developing as a potential Socceroo.

 

[Rowdy]

I do not agree with you Rod *ducks for cover*

Nikita is 3 years younger, young players almost always cost more

Different position, strikers always go for more

Personally I think your dreaming if you think Mile is worth 2 million

I get that the conundrum in that strikers 'cost' more in the footballing marketplace  than defenders, but my focus here was purely on the 'worth' factor.

I just shake my head at the decision. I ask anyone on here what's 'worth' more to you...or more importantly the club, selling a player for $500k-1.5m OR keeping that player that you astutely purchased for the purpose of playing in a Champions League campaign and possibly win again the chance to play in that Champions League a second consecutive year...... which could net you MILLIONSSSSSSSSSSSSS in sponsorship dollars from a corporation, knowing that they're going to get a solid 2 years of exposure in Asia and the rest of the football world. No brainer for me

I'm with Serious in that the club doesn't exist for the players benefit, hell this IS a franchise club not one of members. Mile had tried his luck in Croatia and failed so came back home and was kicking around in State League. He could have been signed in HAL V.1 but wasn't, probably because he hadn't caught someones eye at the time - meaning most clubs didn't think he was quite to the standard yet or was just not known to people who are supposed to be looking, either way the Mariners offered him a 1 year deal after covering for an injury stint with the view that he could be developed into a quality player that ultimately 'benefits' their club, helping them to win! 'the name of the game'.

Mile was then resigned in April approx of 2008 for 2 years with full knowledge that he would be needed for the ACL. He's only played 8-9 months of that contract. To then  let him go on humanitarian grounds and benevolence is a dumb business decision, especially when your Coach comes out in the media straight after the release and continually says how important a player he is to your team, your chances of making the finals, the ACL campaign & will be extremely hard to replace only solidifies the 'dumbness'.


Im sure if we dont make the finals and/or bomb out of the group stage of the ACL a lot of people would then be applying the correct 'worth' figure on Mile Jedinak.

Back to the first point, I'd rather have the best defenders and speculate more on the strikers. Keeping goals out & 0-0 draws are 'worth' a point whereas losing 4-3 'costs' you a point. 

 

[serious14]

Brett - I never said we'd continue to be far down the pecking order...... compared to what the NSL was, and even what some viewed the A-League as in V1, we're motoring along sensationally.

However, I don't think we should be riding Asia's coattails (bear with me).  I think that we should be the ones setting the trends, taking the initiative, and standing up and saying "yes in fact, we _are_ the shiznit" when it comes to Asian Football (on and off the field for that matter).  I'll run with the Man Utd example again..... Fergie full well knows that outside of Vidic and Rooney, Cronaldo is our best player at the moment.  Real Madrid have consistently come knocking at the door, but he has said "no way in hell are we selling our best player", because he knows what sort of an affect that would have on his managing of the squad, as well as our domestic and continental aspirations.  For us, on the eve of finals AND our debut tilt at Asia to sell our best player (for whatever reason)...... I gotta still agree with Rowdy here, I think it's downright dumb.  _Especially_ considering how well Mile would have been able to handle the threats of Chinese hardnut-ness, Japanese pace, and Korean nous.

Look, I understand where your side of the argument is coming from, and I don't doubt some of what you're saying, but I really don't want us to make fools of ourselves in Asia.  Our defending at the moment is borderline comical, and we saw on the weekend how his absence from the squad has further affected that problem.

 

[Wombat]

He is probably worth $1mill but is not classy enough to make it EPL or other top leagues but for us he IS irreplacable with our current squad. He was especially important as our defence is so lightweight.
If we got $800K its hard to say no... for a player we got for nothing.

We need him replaced immediately. Gumps would have had him covered if he was 30 not 35.

 

[Rowdy]

I was going to use the Ronaldo/Ferguson situation as point of reference but thought my post was long enough, but you've hit the nail James, it's the best interest's of the club & team to succeed that should be the overriding factor.

As for deterring the next 'Mile' from coming to us, winning a second year in Asia/Premship/chance to play in a GF/Champnship +++++ plus the millions in sponsorship will provide plenty of incentive and $'s for providing the opportunities for the next generation.

Newcastle are an excellent example of letting the players best interest come before the clubs (Holland,A Griff -pay him more & keep him) you go from Champs to Chumps

 

[brett]

Fair points guys. It's not clear cut and there are grey areas, particularly when you get into the territory of defining a player's dollar value. The big picture stuff about the scale and development of Aus football interests me greatly and I'd like to discuss that further maybe in a new thread.

Sticking to Mile, fact is, from a business perspective, there's two options:

You can have $800k+ for a player you invested nothing in and took no risks on
OR
You can gamble that that one player is good enough to carry the team on his own shoulders onto an unlikely Grand Final win, and therefore another shot at Asia and more $, and/or success in the upcoming ACL to deliver more $ through prizemoney and exposure. That player then leaves the club for nothing in 18 months. You COULD try to sell the player in July, for maybe a couple of 100k more if he excels, or he could get injured and be worthless.

It seems pretty straight-forward, purely business-wise, that the first option is a win win for club and player and risk-free. The second option, you're hoping for some variables to line up, and that's before considering your best player is likely to be mightily pissed off. It's a high-risk practice.

We also don't know what winks and handshakes are going on between management and players when a guy like Danny signs up to a 3-year deal. That could be Danny doing the right thing by the club in enabling us to get a transfer fee, based on the promise that we let him go for a reasonable fee if the right suitor comes along. (I am purely speculating here, btw).

And as for Fergie, I think it was more to do with him sticking it up Real Madrid. He had to stand his ground for a year to make a point. He will sell Cronaldo to them on his terms this summer, for a shitload of money, and get to work on developing the next replacement.

 

[brett]

PS I am as cut as anybody that my favourite Mariner has left, and I think our chances have a huge dent in them. I'm doing my whole 'realistic' and 'bigger picture' things with this.

 

[Bear]

Everyone is overlooking 1 small thing

If he WANTS to go, and is told "to bad, your staying" he wont be happy, he wont want to be here, he wont play to his full ability

You cant force someone to stay against their will imo, if somebody wants to go, they go

 

[Razorback]

We also don't know what winks and handshakes are going on between management and players when a guy like Danny signs up to a 3-year deal. That could be Danny doing the right thing by the club in enabling us to get a transfer fee, based on the promise that we let him go for a reasonable fee if the right suitor comes along. (I am purely speculating here, btw).

Does anyone else feel that danny's stock has nosedived since his suspension.

Not too sure how to look at this from the Mariners Mgmt perspective. On one hand there is the chance to keep him for longer and on the other hand the transfer fee that you speak of Brett, will have almost certainly decreased.

 

[Bear]

He was the 1 who approached the club about a contract extension.

I think he knows his chances of going overseas have nosedived

 

[brett]

Danny is a good illustration of the importance of timing that I described above with Mile. With his form, consistency, age and the team's success at the time, had he had a good Grand Final and a good Olympics I think he would have gone overseas then for sure.

Instead, he's been set back, and has had maybe his worst season, not bad but not to the same heights of previous years. He hasn't been helped by what's in front of him, no doubt.

 

[Rowdy]

You cant force someone to stay against their will imo, if somebody wants to go, they go

It's called a contract, and not a 'player registration form' to play for Wyoming over 35'. It's a legal document and it's binding. As Keating said it's L.A.W

Talking about DannyV...
He was the 1 who approached the club about a contract extension.

I think he knows his chances of going overseas have nosedived

Why would a player want to sign a new contract to stay at the Mariners? because no one is appears to be interested in the player and they want to keep playing and be guaranteed to keep being $PAID$, even if they get injured.

If clubs 'let go' of players just because they want to go somewhere else despite them signing a contract to play for 1-2 yr etc, then on that basis they should be able to stop paying the wages of some ping-pong playing muppet who'sbeen out of action for 3.5 years. 

Players cant have it both ways, that's WHY there ARE contracts.

 

[Bear]

So are you saying the club should have said "stiff shit, your contracted, we dont care if you want to leave, your staying, your playing, deal with it"?

Cos thats really going to attract players to our club in the future hey.

I see what your saying Rod, and agree with the binding contract part, but you must surely see that forcing a player to honour a contract against his will will only lead to the club getting a bad name for itself and do more damage?

 

[jaypee]

So are you saying the club should have said "stiff shit, your contracted, we dont care if you want to leave, your staying, your playing, deal with it"?

Cos thats really going to attract players to our club in the future hey.

I see what your saying Rod, and agree with the binding contract part, but you must surely see that forcing a player to honour a contract against his will will only lead to the club getting a bad name for itself and do more damage?

Bear - agree totally - the other thing is if we made him stay then we get Jack at the end of his contract. Best of both worlds - he furthers his career and we get $800k.

Not best of both worlds from a team and finals viewpoint...