McKINNA OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[David Votoupal]

Another idea would be, instead of changing manager, to bring skills coaches from abroad to the club, so they can help players and especially the youngsters hone their skills.

 

[dibo]

isn't the damage done (to take a pretty pessimistic view) by the time they're even 17 and showing up in the junior system? to a certain extent this stuff has to be happening in the pre-teen years.

tactics, structure - the cerebral side of the game - can be taught until a player's last game and they'll continue to learn and develop, but my gut feel is that the basics of touch, passing, turning and dribbling are kinda hardwired by the time a player hits adulthood.

 

[David Votoupal]

But there are those sorts of skills that players are simply born with, you just can't teach them.

 

[dibo]

...so why hire a skills coach at all?

 

[Arabmariner]

But there are those sorts of skills that players are simply born with, you just can't teach them.

Yes some are just born gifted.

However many of the superb ball skills that you see from players from poorer nations are honed in the streets as kids.While our kids are playing computer games their kids are kicking a ball around.Kids training and playing once or twice a week will only achieve so much.

As a kid I was far from a great player but at least I could trap a ball.Most of the kids I've seen playing here and in Scotland recently really have no idea.

 

[clarence]

Another idea would be, instead of changing manager, to bring skills coaches from abroad to the club, so they can help players and especially the youngsters hone their skills.

isn't the damage done (to take a pretty pessimistic view) by the time they're even 17 and showing up in the junior system? to a certain extent this stuff has to be happening in the pre-teen years.

tactics, structure - the cerebral side of the game - can be taught until a player's last game and they'll continue to learn and develop, but my gut feel is that the basics of touch, passing, turning and dribbling are kinda hardwired by the time a player hits adulthood.

But there are those sorts of skills that players are simply born with, you just can't teach them.

Yes some are just born gifted.

However many of the superb ball skills that you see from players from poorer nations are honed in the streets as kids.While our kids are playing computer games their kids are kicking a ball around.Kids training and playing once or twice a week will only achieve so much.

As a kid I was far from a great player but at least I could trap a ball.Most of the kids I've seen playing here and in Scotland recently really have no idea.

I have had to reply to these comments before heading off to work - I'll forget by the time I get home this arvo.

Guys, you should take a look at the younger generation of players coming up through the rep ranks.

I've caught glimpses of it on the Central Coast and Newcastle areas in my travels with family.

The younger boys (as young as 11!) in the rep teams can be f**king frightening with their skill, speed and ability to read the game.

As was pointed out to me, was I capable of doing what I had seen, when I was their age? A: NO!

Someone, don't know who, is getting the technique going in a number of these players in each team. We are talking about them doing tricky passing manoeuvres to disguise the intended flight of the ball, high crosses/passes into the penalty area from the sideline (virtually 90 degrees from the sideline into the box and these kids are small)- with teammates running onto the ball, carefully worked out midfield strategies to move the ball upfield, etc.

Of course, they are still kids and can and will stuff things up, or not get the idea in their head too well, but hell, they beat the pants off kids I saw only say 8 years (but about same age) previous when I lived in Brisbane.

If these kids keep on with their football development they will be in a number of NYL sides at the earliest possible age (16?), because quite simply, they will be technically superior to those a fair bit older than them. And if all goes well, they'll be pressing for A-League squad spots at age 18 or so. They *could* if there is a number of them, push older guys like Wilko, Hutch, Caceres, Mrdja etc. out the door quicker than they had planned if they turn out technically superior.

The kids I'm talking about are from our own Lightning boys, and some kids from Valentine Ellebana (Sp. ?) & a team from the Hunter Valley, but I'm hopeful that what I have seen is taking hold all over the country because of efforts to revamp the coaching curriculum by the FFA and the influence of what the kids have seen at live A-league games.

 

[dibo]

This is kinda what I've been getting at in innumerable rants about how the quality of Australian footballers will rise as our coaching improves but that it will take time.

Wait til these kids are in the HAL. Better yet, wait til all of the players in the HAL have had the benefit of the new regime of coaching. For those of us worried about quality in our league, the solution (as always) is in the kids coming through.

All the foreign coaches in the world won't have John Hutchinson playing like Cesc Fabregas, but if we can get the kids playing and thinking at a higher level than before even before they get to the top league then we can't help but have a better national league.

 

[clarence]

This is kinda what I've been getting at in innumerable rants about how the quality of Australian footballers will rise as our coaching improves but that it will take time.

Wait til these kids are in the HAL. Better yet, wait til all of the players in the HAL have had the benefit of the new regime of coaching. For those of us worried about quality in our league, the solution (as always) is in the kids coming through.

All the foreign coaches in the world won't have John Hutchinson playing like Cesc Fabregas, but if we can get the kids playing and thinking at a higher level than before even before they get to the top league then we can't help but have a better national league.

I guess this is my lunchtime rant, Dibo!

You are quite correct - from what I've seen coming up through the ranks - about the kids playing to a better level at a younger age. The promise for the A-League is to hold for now with what players they can attract, provide the premier league for Australia and continue to get into the minds of the kids that go to the games. A lot of kids are emulating what they see at the A-League games, for sure, but the level of coaching must be on the improve for them to display such competency with their technique at such a young age. As I said, I'm hoping this is happening across Australia and due to the improved coaching curriculum that Baan and the FFA put together.

The frightening thing is that these kids could completely overshadow the current starts of the A-League far sooner than many A-League top line players think that they have a career. Folks like Porter, Wilko, even Hutchinson and Mrdja should get their arses out of bed early on Sundays and catch the young er rep teams and see what's chasing them in the next 5 - 10 years. It might shock them out of any complacency they have abnout holding down their squad spot.

But it will all come down to what people like Lawrie see in these up and coming new players.(Back on topic)

Lawrie hasn't instilled a great deal of confidence in my belief in him, that he can spot a younger player and promote them quick enough to benefit their career.

He has already had Bozanic and Holland slip through his fingers, and while people may diss on those players or say the players were better off chasing their dreams of playing OS, the fact he only gave them fleeting opportunities while he had them & continued to play the likes of Spencer, Hutchinson and Petrie even in non A-League games. Both those players do have ability to play in this A-League and Lawrie and the Mariners let that pass. How many other younger players have sought greener pastures away from the Central Coast?

I think the emphasis will shift to the younger players once these youngsters hit 16 or so (about 3 - 5 years away) and folks like Lawrie had better be open minded enough to give them the better opportunities or they will simply look elsewhere. I hold reservations that Lawrie can be as open minded as will be needed, given his past displays of favouring out of form players who perhaps had been with him for years.

 

[Bex]

Point taken.

On the other hand, Lawrie HAS played players such as Simon, Jedinak, Vukovic, Porter, Pondeljak, Bosnich, etc when others may not have given them more of a go.

Any coach you employ will have their preferences. I'm not sure the preferences you point out manage to offset the preferences that have actually worked.

 

[mariners4ever]

This is kinda what I've been getting at in innumerable rants about how the quality of Australian footballers will rise as our coaching improves but that it will take time.

Wait til these kids are in the HAL. Better yet, wait til all of the players in the HAL have had the benefit of the new regime of coaching. For those of us worried about quality in our league, the solution (as always) is in the kids coming through.

All the foreign coaches in the world won't have John Hutchinson playing like Cesc Fabregas, but if we can get the kids playing and thinking at a higher level than before even before they get to the top league then we can't help but have a better national league.

He has already had Bozanic and Holland slip through his fingers, and while people may diss on those players or say the players were better off chasing their dreams of playing OS, the fact he only gave them fleeting opportunities while he had them & continued to play the likes of Spencer, Hutchinson and Petrie even in non A-League games. Both those players do have ability to play in this A-League and Lawrie and the Mariners let that pass. How many other younger players have sought greener pastures away from the Central Coast?

goos posts there clarence, but TBH i dont realy think bozanic sliped through our fingers, it was just that reading might've been a better option, WHEREAS, holland, the judas c**t, turned his back on us by signing for the scummers the same day he trained with us

 

[midfielder]

As I said earlier my reading of the tea leaves is that LM has the end of first round to show he turn our defensive problems around ...  But I don't think he will be sacked just move over the Mariners Center of Excellence ...

However I must re open a point raised a few pages back that there is the smell of the board getting involved in player recruitment ... now aside from players we cannot afford and as long as working within budget then it should be a coaches call on who is signed ... I have no inside information one way or the other but as others have said if there is board interference.....it is not a good thing...

BTW by end of round 1... it will be somewhere around 21 months maybe longer ...if Vinny leaving was known so I also think that is a long time in football terms to sort out a problem .. that is why I think the end of round 1... is the date...

 

[FFC Mariner]

Harsh to blame LM for Bozanic and the Judas c**t TBH.

He had identified both of them, trialled them in a few games and we got knocked off by Reading for Bozanic and GVE promised Judas immediate game time which we didnt.

Who knew that Holland was ready so soon - the offer we made to him to be a squad player would have seemed reasonable at the time.

 

[Sean]

Harsh to blame LM for Bozanic and the Judas c**t TBH.

He had identified both of them, trialled them in a few games and we got knocked off by Reading for Bozanic and GVE promised Judas immediate game time which we didnt.

Who knew that Holland was ready so soon - the offer we made to him to be a squad player would have seemed reasonable at the time.

TBH thats all or at the most what he deserved. He didnt really set the world on fire when he was trialling for us and the games I watched when he played for us never left me thinking "sign him up!"

 

[marinersman]

isn't the damage done (to take a pretty pessimistic view) by the time they're even 17 and showing up in the junior system? to a certain extent this stuff has to be happening in the pre-teen years.

tactics, structure - the cerebral side of the game - can be taught until a player's last game and they'll continue to learn and develop, but my gut feel is that the basics of touch, passing, turning and dribbling are kinda hardwired by the time a player hits adulthood.

That's a good post from dibo and he hits on the the crux of the problem with Australian football. Our players are a product of our system and are as good as they can be. JW said this for 20 years before his sad death and Craig Foster says it now.

Our development system is third world. Hopefully the FFA is taking the right steps now and time will tell, but from what I've seen and heard, I'm not convinced. Technically and tactically we are so far behind first world football nations it's shameful.

If Kewell was born and developed in Spain, if Viduka was born and developed in Croatia, if Neill was born and developed in Italy, these guys would be world class and playing for the likes of Man U, Milan, Barcelona etc To be honest, it's a miracle they are as good as what they are.

The Frontale game was shameful because of the lack of heart and effort we displayed. Even the Mariners at the top of their game we still have been beaten confortably by them. In fact, every HAL team would have been. The gulf was embarassing.

We could learn a lot from the Japanese. They play the beautiful game and have a relatively new league. We could do a lot worse than set up some sort of relationship with them to learn what they have done with their development systems, league, commercial arrangements etc etc

 

[midfielder]

Not quite sure I agree with you... Craig Johnston taught himself the skills to make it in England when over there.

More to the point when you are a kid you have heaps of spare time and are eager to learn and play ... when you get older other toys become more important... and you have less people to play with... another point many fail to realise is the impact of FTA TV.

I once coached a cricket team to two grand final wins and my team was the also rans ... I just did what Richie said and it worked ... the affect or should that be effect on kids and coaches when a TV commenter says something and explains it is huge ...it passes on a lot of basic instructions to willing ears...

As was said the holding shape side of things is a constant improvement process.. but again FTA coverage will help coaches especially in there coaching of sides.

 

[offtheball]

isn't the damage done (to take a pretty pessimistic view) by the time they're even 17 and showing up in the junior system? to a certain extent this stuff has to be happening in the pre-teen years.

tactics, structure - the cerebral side of the game - can be taught until a player's last game and they'll continue to learn and develop, but my gut feel is that the basics of touch, passing, turning and dribbling are kinda hardwired by the time a player hits adulthood.

That's a good post from dibo and he hits on the the crux of the problem with Australian football. Our players are a product of our system and are as good as they can be. JW said this for 20 years before his sad death and Craig Foster says it now.

Our development system is third world. Hopefully the FFA is taking the right steps now and time will tell, but from what I've seen and heard, I'm not convinced. Technically and tactically we are so far behind first world football nations it's shameful.

If Kewell was born and developed in Spain, if Viduka was born and developed in Croatia, if Neill was born and developed in Italy, these guys would be world class and playing for the likes of Man U, Milan, Barcelona etc To be honest, it's a miracle they are as good as what they are.

The Frontale game was shameful because of the lack of heart and effort we displayed. Even the Mariners at the top of their game we still have been beaten confortably by them. In fact, every HAL team would have been. The gulf was embarassing.

We could learn a lot from the Japanese. They play the beautiful game and have a relatively new league. We could do a lot worse than set up some sort of relationship with them to learn what they have done with their development systems, league, commercial arrangements etc etc

Not just about development.

Throw in 3 socceroos, three good Brazillians and a Korean international and our team would have been stronger as well.

 

[dibo]

but as we all know offtheball, we have nowhere near the money available (whether we can fit them in the cap or not) to make that happen.

it's no more realistic to say we'd be better with steven gerrard, if only we could have him.

 

[elevated position]

Did someone say we got Steven Gerrard? That means Hutch can retire.
Seriously, this is a good thread.
Everyone of you contibutors realise that the future is with the younger kids andthat is where the money needs to be spent. To improve the system coaches from different (ethnic) backgrounds have to be employed as each will bring that extra something our local junior coaches have never been exposed to let alone play against.

There is a south american coach in the Morriset area who is starting to get a reputation as a skills coach and is drawing kids from all parts of the coast to play under him and the kids know how to use the ball.(12/14 yrs old) Unfortunately he is only one coach and we need fifty in this area alone to make any overall progress or we will continue with coaches that did not have skills themslves training the kids. (Their efforts are appreciated though)

 

[striker]

I'd prefer a genius coach and a c**t tbh.

You want John Kosmina?  he fits the description....

 

[dibo]

might be a c**t, but genius? don't think so - had a better basic list of players than we did at the beginning of last season and didn't make a great go of it, was basically saved from utter embarassment by his kids at the end of the year (and they can thank steve o'connor for that!)...