Mariners Squad - HAL 12 - 2016 - 2017

[Forum Phoenix]

Great post Dibo. Definitely how I see it. And why I feel even with Monty back improvement will be hard to come by. The roar through the middle scare me. If we can't force them back onto their haunches with our attack we will struggle not to be dominated and I don't know where those quarterback passes we need or creativity in the centre is going to come from.

I also think we have to stay smart in how we press - it needs to be together and committed or not at all. Bothers me when all we do is open up space and make easy passing lanes by pressing independently. But we've pressed really well for periods too, so there's hope here as well.

 

[dibo]

The willingness to change mid-game is probably what's missing.

I can understand why Paulo might be reticent - first; you want the high press, high tempo game to be automatic. It's hard to make something automatic if you're not doing it as your standard action.

Second; you probably want to show the owner which players aren't up to it, to be able to make an argument for what you need in January.

Third, and most important; we're actually not far into Okon's reign at all. He's been there for 15 weeks today. It's hard to develop a squad under the spotlight. In preseason you're going to have some up and down weeks and some weeks look like you're going backwards until something snaps in and the groups suddenly gets what you're trying to achieve.

There were passages of passing in both of the last two games that were simply gorgeous - we're playing some ambitious football at times but it really looks like an unfinished symphony. There are wonderful phrases and passages and movements but there's no crescendo.

For some perspective, had we moved Walmsley on after our last A-League game of the 2014/15 season, and taken the same three weeks to hire Okon, he'd be in preseason now and still have 8 weeks of work to do before the first game. And he'd have a squad of his own choosing doing the preseason with him.

So what we're watching is a team that's still learning to play under the new conductor. And he's not sure if the strings are kicking in where he wants and he's not sure if the percussion is in time, and some players are in time one week and out the next but he's learning this all on stage, not in rehearsal.

It's a tough gig.

 

[Yoda]

Did Okon sign a 2 or 3 year contract?

Coming in so late in the pre-season, I think he deserves this year as a right off - he has had little to no input in player retention / recruitment and very little time to adapt the current cattle to his system (or vice-versa). Next season he will have a full pre-season and you would hope, given that Peter Storrie is gone, he will be able to have the final decision on retention / re-signing, but will still have some players under contract that he may not care for. That leaves 2018/19 as the year where he has hopefully re-shaped the team to his liking, and then RESULTS MATTER and he should be judged on that season.

 

[dibo]

Two year deal: http://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/...ral-coast-mariners-coach-20160829-gr3dvh.html

 

[FFC Mariner]

Two key experienced players including the captain? I'd say it'd be fairly common.

No one

 

[dibo]

Next season he will have a full pre-season and you would hope, given that Peter Storrie is gone, he will be able to have the final decision on retention / re-signing, but will still have some players under contract that he may not care for.

Next year, the only players on contract that aren't his choice are Ascroft, Berry, McGing, Pain and Powell. They're all playing regularly, so I don't think he's that unhappy with any of them.

He's also extended Buhagiar and Rose (again, regulars in matchday squads) so I think he's got a fair bit of freedom to sign who he wants, budget constraints being the main obstacle.

It's important for him to show that it's his squad and that they'll play his way. That way he can sell to prospective recruits the idea that 2016/17 is about filtering players who can play his style from those who can't and then setting a foundation for 2017/18.

In that context, if we finish 9th this season I'm OK. If we finish 8th or above I'm pretty happy and if we somehow land in 6th I will be over the f**king moon.

But next year the aim has to be finals at least.

 

[Timmah]

No one

Grammar is your friend. I have no idea what this post means.

 

[localpom]

Two key experienced players including the captain? I'd say it'd be fairly common.

I think it's all dependable on the players you have. For us to lose Monty,Faty, and Tav is a massive loss and they are basically irreplaceable with the squad we have. For most other teams its a loss but they can be replaced and the balance and strength of the side remains.

 

[FFC Mariner]

Grammar is your friend. I have no idea what this post means.

The expanded version is that no other HAL side would collapse completely with 2 over 30 year olds taken out.

 

[Big Al]

I can't be responsible for your inability to keep up.

However, the expanded version is that no other HAL side would collapse completely with 2 over 30 year olds taken out.

AU and Perth say high

They didn't ship as many goals as us but have been very ordinary with injury problems

 

[VicMariner]

FFC Mariner is right. We are just too thin.

 

[Tevor]

Two key experienced players including the captain? I'd say it'd be fairly common.

For your detractors Timmah what about Glory with no Castro or even a fit Castro. That is only one player and they look ordinary.

 

[nebakke]

Obviously not this season but faaark - look at what happened to Brisbane in 2012 (?) When Broich and Berisha had a spell injured.
Noone's saying it's ideal but it's far from unheard of either.

 

[Wombat]

For your detractors Timmah what about Glory with no Castro or even a fit Castro. That is only one player and they look ordinary.

True, but they are not conceding 3 or 4 goals a game.

 

[Timmah]

The expanded version is that no other HAL side would collapse completely with 2 over 30 year olds taken out.

Nice of you to edit the nark out of your post.
As for your point - no other side in the HAL are given the constraints we are. Sad reality. Yet we've still managed to remain competitive this season.

True, but they are not conceding 3 or 4 goals a game.

Sydney banged 4 past them, and they've since lost to us and the Jets.

 

[VicMariner]

Surely the point is Melbourne City or Victory can lose two players and not slump into a losing streak.
Lets compare ourselves to the top teams, not the junk at the bottom. We deserve and should expect better than that.

 

[Forum Phoenix]

Every team has their most important players. But there are multiple factors that make Tav and Monty a much greater loss than I think could fairly be called typical.

Experience.
Leadership.
(In a team well short on it)
One is the important player defensively.
The other our best creatively.
Both in our spine and the engine room.
Both integral to how we play football and our spirit/motivation.

A keeper and a striker are incredibly important players. But we could lose both and still hope to play as well. But we cant expect that in this particular instance with these two particular players in these two particular positions, given the particular balance of our squad.

It leaves us particularly f**ked.

So I think the comparisons people are making are not apples with apples.

 

[Tevor]

Surely the point is Melbourne City or Victory can lose two players and not slump into a losing streak.
Lets compare ourselves to the top teams, not the junk at the bottom. We deserve and should expect better than that.

Glory were hot favourites with their recruitment so wouldn't classify them as junk.

 

[Forum Phoenix]

Glory have not gelled - I rate Castro and the loss of an LM and RB has clearly hurt, but is far from the major reason why they have underperformed.

 

[Big Al]

True, but they are not conceding 3 or 4 goals a game.

they should have conceded 6 against the Jets but Jets have Hoole.
The jets totally dominated them

We should have had 3 but Berry hit the bar.

Perth are in all sorts without Risdon (now back) and Castro

AU without Carusca Ciro Enrique were mugs to