Mariners Squad - HAL 12 - 2016 - 2017

[Big Al]

That's a mightily subdued quote from Tony Rallis, considering the past - hopefully that's a sign that Storm really is keen on staying and don't want to needlessly rock the boat

I'm happy but a couple extra $$$$ wouldn't hurt

 

[Big Al]

Just watched the pregame show and said Tav in a moon boot and said to them he has damaged the ankle that was causing him grief earlier in the season and he will most probably head back to Europe for treatment and possibly surgery.
Could that be the end of Tav on the coast?

Monty they said hurt his hammy at training and was thinking only a week. He had his hammy strapped after the Perth game.
I reckon needs a couple of weeks to get rid of these problems. Without Tav can't afford to loose Monty long term

 

[nebakke]

Just watched the pregame show and said Tav in a moon boot and said to them he has damaged the ankle that was causing him grief earlier in the season and he will most probably head back to Europe for treatment and possibly surgery.
Could that be the end of Tav on the coast?

Monty they said hurt his hammy at training and was thinking only a week. He had his hammy strapped after the Perth game.
I reckon needs a couple of weeks to get rid of these problems. Without Tav can't afford to loose Monty long term

Faaaaaarrrrkkkkkkk!!!!!

 

[Forum Phoenix]

Just watched the pregame show and said Tav in a moon boot and said to them he has damaged the ankle that was causing him grief earlier in the season and he will most probably head back to Europe for treatment and possibly surgery.
Could that be the end of Tav on the coast?

Monty they said hurt his hammy at training and was thinking only a week. He had his hammy strapped after the Perth game.
I reckon needs a couple of weeks to get rid of these problems. Without Tav can't afford to loose Monty long term

Terrible news. Tav was a massive player for us, only young Rose could be happy about this. We need to replace him (and get a south american 10 while we're there pease) Monty surrounded by kids, no matter how hard working or well drilled will still not be enough.

 

[dibo]

Tavares has been good, don't get me wrong, but I'm not devastated at this news. I'm certain that he wouldn't have been on the first three pages of Okon's wish list had he been recruiting in the off-season. Faty wouldn't have made the first ten pages. Maybe we thank them and let them go home to France? We would then have two free foreign spots.

Rose looked very good on Saturday. The two CBs have gone OK too, so I think it's time we back them full-on to be our front line guys.

I'm not sure we desperately need a #10 - I'd worry that we'd be trying to play through him rather than using what are our real advantages - devastating pace on the flanks. And when the ball comes to the #10 the lines are going to be closing up tight when what we need is to hit broken defences at speed.

When we played 11 v 10 on the weekend, I couldn't help but think that Ferreira was completely wasted where he was. He had no idea what to do and if anything was in the way. Pain was sucking in the big ones so I'd have had him off for Fab and then pushed Powell forward (or swapped Powell for Bingham) and go balls-out 4-2-4. Push behind the line and play loads of early balls, turn 'em and burn 'em as much as possible. Not long ball stuff, just the 20m pass in behind. It's how our goal came about and with some better execution and commitment to runs in the middle we really might have had several more.

When you've got that much pace on offer I think it's nuts to try to force ourselves to play with a #10.

 

[soccer mad]

I feel we need another workhorse midfielder with pin point passing who is also good defensively . and central defender with flair that will do me otherwise quite happy with what we have ,Okon has done well with the boys he'll make the required adjustments to suit injury lost but it will take a little time with such a young squad . Under the circumstances we are doing fine .

 

[nebakke]

When you've got that much pace on offer I think it's nuts to try to force ourselves to play with a #10.

For mine at least, the thinking would be that beyond the disconnect between front and back, on the weekend, we seemed to be very much out of ideas if either of those avenues failed to produce - that's where the #10 would come in.
The way I see it, a lot of the back-passing that lead to so much frustration, came from sub-par movement on the wings, Wanderers largely discounted us as a threat in the middle and were happy to put a couple of extra players on either wing and let us play the ball around between the defenders - not unlike the SFC game in that sense. If we'd had a #10 or at least someone who can carry the ball up a bit from the back, the way Tavares did last week, I think we would have looked a lot more dangerous.

I like your idea of pushing Ascroft up with Posco/McGing in defence though, I think it could've been interesting to watch - guessing we'll get to see it before long.

 

[dibo]

The way I see it, a lot of the back-passing that lead to so much frustration, came from sub-par movement on the wings, Wanderers largely discounted us as a threat in the middle and were happy to put a couple of extra players on either wing and let us play the ball around between the defenders - not unlike the SFC game in that sense.

I disagree with the bolded bit. We were up in the upper east side, and in the last 20m or so Buhagiar made a number of sharp runs that simply weren't rewarded. The ball movement was too ponderous and indecisive. We'd play into a position where they'd press across and then we'd come back across field but with no pace or venom. Given the narrowness of WSW's defence, we created acres of space but we didn't hit it with big switching balls. Oh for a Zwaanswijk type to smack the big diagonal...

There were a few times when balls were sent through Buhagiar got the opportunity to burn Clisby (who had a pretty decent game, but still really felt the pressure) and we got the opportunity to play crosses against a defence now facing their own goal - that's a dangerous moment!

We also had Bingham pressing on late waiting for crosses, but they were often 'on' but not sent or they'd be sent but we'd only have one man in a crowd.

Given they were defending with a deep block I can't understand why we didn't basically alternate between queuing up men for crosses and pulling a turn and burn on the flanks. If they're going to sit deep, take advantage by stacking the box. If they're going to press up, kill them with pace.

But *don't* fart-arse about with it hoping to delicately pick our way through... We did too much of that.

 

[dibo]

WRT the above - we're still playing considerably better than under Moss or Walmsley - the patterns are right and we're holding the ball more effectively, we're less prone to coughing it up under pressure (Galloway vs Neill is a big improvement here) and we can recycle the ball when a move doesn't work. But we need better execution on the attacking passes.

 

[Ancient Mariner]

I do not see why we cannot have the best of all worlds, fast attack down the flanks, a good striker (Roy or whoever), a good #10 (either to hold up, or run at and terrify defenders or to provide)(Perez, Musti, McBreen,Rogic, pick one) plus a midfield organiser a la Tavares.
More than one option is a lot harder to defend against.
We have it all in attack at the moment, if Tavares comes good, except for the #10.

 

[Forum Phoenix]

I know Okon has tried to adapt to not having that specialty player and I liked what he said on the podcast in this regard. But from what I see there's just no arguing with Roy that we clearly miss one still and for mine we are unblalnced in attack (and also when playing out) so all the easier to shut down for it. Without Tav we were forced to neglect the the centre almost entirely. And a Martinez who can run at players cnd or play a killer ball forces players to come to him and opens space out wide - so I don't think it's a case of needing to neglect the strength of our wingers, which I agree on.

On Taveres, Okon has said what a quality player he thinks he is - so regardless of where he would have ranked him, he will know he is not an easy player to replace.

For mine it's pretty clear what we're lacking - again like Roy said, just two attacking high quality ball players and we'd become a legit force.

I find it borderline amazing, but I think I agree re the CB,s, Ashcroft and McGing are clearly growing not just in their performances but confidence is up and if posc does the same, we could be sorted.

Personally though I don't think Rose can do yet what either monty or tav can. So I think we're in a bit of trouble right now,

 

[dibo]

How many actual 10s are there in the comp right now? There are people who are playing midfield roles that are broadly attacking, but there are very few real orchestrators among them.

Adelaide United - Carrusca
Brisbane Roar - Holman?
Central Coast Mariners - Powell
Melbourne City - Caceres and Brattan, but neither is a true 10, they're more "busy CMs"
Melbourne Victory - Troisi
Newcastle Jets - Hoole?
Perth Glory - Castro?
Sydney FC - Ninkovic?
Wellington Phoenix - Bonevacia
Western Sydney Wanderers - Nico

A lot of these guys are more secondary striker than a true #10. Very few of them are the key to unlocking a defence. More sides are using deeper players to do that (like a quarterback), and I think people forget that that's what Tavares brings to us.

What makes me worry less about losing Tavares is the fact that Rose can do the same for us - there were *several* key moments on the weekend where Rose would be able to get himself out of trouble and find a clever pass that got us moving forward with a numerical advantage. And even before the injury worries for Tavares, looking forward I'd be keener to develop Rose in that role than have Tavares see out the rest of his holiday in that role.

 

[dibo]

You know what I find *super* encouraging about Saturday? We mixed it with a side that's better than their ladder position indicates and we did it with a super young side:

Izzo 21
Roux 24
McGing 22
Ascroft 21
Galloway 21
Berry 19
Rose 18
Buhagiar 18
Powell 25
Pain 23
O’Donovan 31

6 players in that line-up are still eligible for NYL.

 

[Big Al]

No way are Ashcroft and McGing good enough to be our CB's if we want to be successful. We need experience at the back.
We absolutely need a PZ type.
Ashcroft and McGing can fight to be next to them. Ashcroft had some horrible passing errors but the two have improved.

I liked Rose and he is calm and great passing but he needs to be in Monty's role until he puts on more muscle. The CB's don't trust him like they do Taveras. Taveras is a lot better than Rose and is the anchor to our team. If he is gone we need a replacement in similar ability and age. Rose size lets the attack nip at the ball as Taveras could use his size to hold them off. This is a major difference and very important.

We absolutely need a pure #10. Nico Martinez is amazing. We are absolutely one dimensional. Berry makes good runs and gets in good position in the middle but they just aren't ready to use that properly. Your 10 can still be used to hit the wings just gives an extra angle instead of the up the line ball from the backs every time.

Just need a class spine. We have everything else

You watch how far we fall in the next couple of weeks with this team who is last years with a new and improved left side. We won't be TW bad but it won't be what we have been building to. WSW is building but they did dominate us just like they did Roar without great stuff around the penalty box and they will be a top team if they can fix that.
Our chase for the 6 might just fall away over the next couple of weeks.

This is also the time of year last year where the other teams kicked it up a gear and we got lef horribly behind.

 

[Big Al]

I'd like Taveras back but can't see it happening unless wants back for next year but can't see that happening, as many have said it's probably a package deal with Faty.

 

[Ancient Mariner]

How many actual 10s are there in the comp right now? There are people who are playing midfield roles that are broadly attacking, but there are very few real orchestrators among them.

Adelaide United - Carrusca
Brisbane Roar - Holman?
Central Coast Mariners - Powell
Melbourne City - Caceres and Brattan, but neither is a true 10, they're more "busy CMs"
Melbourne Victory - Troisi
Newcastle Jets - Hoole?
Perth Glory - Castro?
Sydney FC - Ninkovic?
Wellington Phoenix - Bonevacia
Western Sydney Wanderers - Nico

A lot of these guys are more secondary striker than a true #10. Very few of them are the key to unlocking a defence. More sides are using deeper players to do that (like a quarterback), and I think people forget that that's what Tavares brings to us.

What makes me worry less about losing Tavares is the fact that Rose can do the same for us - there were *several* key moments on the weekend where Rose would be able to get himself out of trouble and find a clever pass that got us moving forward with a numerical advantage. And even before the injury worries for Tavares, looking forward I'd be keener to develop Rose in that role than have Tavares see out the rest of his holiday in that role.

Roy made that point in his interview and it is clear that orchestrating #10s are more scare than quality fullbacks. We would definitely need to go overseas to find one but imagine the excitement of a Perez in front of Monty/Rose or Monty/Tavares.

Please let me dream.

 

[nebakke]

I'd like Taveras back but can't see it happening unless wants back for next year but can't see that happening, as many have said it's probably a package deal with Faty.

Tbh - I like Tavares, but if there's even the slightest hint of question around his fitness, I think I'd prefer us to find someone new for the role... He's good, he has added class and thinking to the group, but I don't think he's doing anything that we couldn't find someone else to do for similar money at this point... Arguably might even be able to get someone a little bit younger, with a couple more years left in their legs too.
That's not to say that I want him to go...

 

[Atomic]

Some news to be announced tomorrow at 7am. My bet is that Trent has extended his contract a further two seasons.

 

[Wombat]

I know Okon has tried to adapt to not having that specialty player and I liked what he said on the podcast in this regard. But from what I see there's just no arguing with Roy that we clearly miss one still and for mine we are unblalnced in attack (and also when playing out) so all the easier to shut down for it. Without Tav we were forced to neglect the the centre almost entirely. And a Martinez who can run at players cnd or play a killer ball forces players to come to him and opens space out wide - so I don't think it's a case of needing to neglect the strength of our wingers, which I agree on.

On Taveres, Okon has said what a quality player he thinks he is - so regardless of where he would have ranked him, he will know he is not an easy player to replace.

For mine it's pretty clear what we're lacking - again like Roy said, just two attacking high quality ball players and we'd become a legit force.

I find it borderline amazing, but I think I agree re the CB,s, Ashcroft and McGing are clearly growing not just in their performances but confidence is up and if posc does the same, we could be sorted.

Personally though I don't think Rose can do yet what either monty or tav can. So I think we're in a bit of trouble right now,

Agree with all of that apart from the CB's. We are far from sorted there. The back 4 looked like witches hats at times and the third goal was not unlucky it was very poor play. A real defender not a converted middle would not have conceded that and Galloway was beaten all to easily.

 

[Wombat]

Some news to be announced tomorrow at 7am. My bet is that Trent has extended his contract a further two seasons.

That would be good but hopefully it's something much better than that.
Replacement for Tav, new CB or a #10......please.