Mariners Squad - HAL 11 - 2015/2016

[Forum Phoenix]

Well Bell, then Walmsley and Hutch must be simply making shit up. Which I guess you've already stated - and now the club dragging players names through the mud - if you want to talk about tarnishing reputations - which is just bordering on the hysterical and silly on a football forum anyway. So what? They're just mysteriously dropping players for worse than no good reason or what conspiracies? Their press statements have been abundantly clear unless you're immune to all subtext and implications.

You have not offered a SINGLE piece of evidence or strong idea to support your opinion. Just an emotional defence. Hardly going to change anyones minds is it.

Honestly, if you cant handle players being criticised when they want to break their contracts, and even the coaches who have mentored them think they're not going their all, then i have no idea why you come to a football forum. Freedom of opinion is not just something you say you believe in and then continue on making accusations as to why others should not think differently than you or express their opinions. Even if you don't like them. Or think it will upset someone. Which is what you just did.

 

[dibo]

I think the #PeaheartFC shit can f**k right off as well, for what it's worth.

There's a difference between being critical and being abusive - there's not really any coming back from abusive, and that's the line that I think #PeaHeartFC crosses.

 

[Forum Phoenix]

Didn't read that as abuse. Simply struck me as a joke when I first read it. Deliberately barbed and cynical sure, but really just banter and not something I found surprising in the circumstances or even that over the top.

Everything about this, press, coaches, managers and club statements - except what Bell says and that hasn't give anything to change your idea based of - all say that players who were nurtured and well loved by the club decided they want to break their contracts when the going got toughest.

Don't know how this can interpreted differently without some serious other facts being presented. Starting to think I must live in some kind of parallel universe, because comments about showing a lack of heart or criticising players intent to break their contracts etc, should imo not be unexpected or a source of particular outrage on a football forum. And as ever these days, still incredibly tame on here compared to 99% of places you'd visit online in these sort of blow ups and most of us provide rational arguments for why we believe what we believe.

I come to this forum to have discussions and genuine debate about my thoughts and opinions. Not to try to validate whether or not an opinion is allowed to be had because you're being unfair to others. When you say you should not say what you think or criticise because it is just attacking other people and unfair, you are ignoring and not arguing the ideas. "You're just hating on Fitzy and Caceres" is just lazy thinking. It's using emotional condemnation and offence to close down the debate. Sometimes people may just be intent on a pound of flesh. Sure. I'm not. Never have been. Hope that's been evident over my years on here.

Thrilled to discuss why players are being hard done by or what's happening and why I have the wrong end of the stick. And I'm absolutely willing to change my mind and also to say sorry if conflicting and better evidence presents itself. But it's a forum, so I'm not going to hold off having an opinion because someone doesn't like it, or because you can't possibly know all things. Can only go off what I've seen, the things that are out there and are being said. Argue to the contrary fine, but Bell keeps clearly implying that anyone who does so is doing the wrong thing and wrongfully damaging others.

 

[FFC Mariner]

Different strokes I guess, simply struck me as a joke when I first read it. Deliberately barbed and cynical sure, but not something I found surprising in the circumstances.

There is a difference between abuse and traditional football black humour.

 

[Forum Phoenix]

That's exactly how I read it. Had just edited my post to reflect it better too, but that puts it better though.

 

[Bell]

Didn't read that as abuse. Simply struck me as a joke when I first read it. Deliberately barbed and cynical sure, but really just banter and not something I found surprising in the circumstances or even that over the top.

Everything about this, press, coaches, managers and club statements - except what Bell says and that hasn't give anything to change your idea based of - all say that players who were nurtured and well loved by the club decided they want to break their contracts when the going got toughest.

Don't know how this can interpreted differently without some serious other facts being presented. Starting to think I must live in some kind of parallel universe, because comments about showing a lack of heart or criticising players intent to break their contracts etc, should imo not be unexpected or a source of particular outrage on a football forum. And as ever these days, still incredibly tame on here compared to 99% of places you'd visit online in these sort of blow ups and most of us provide rational arguments for why we believe what we believe.

I come to this forum to have discussions and genuine debate about my thoughts and opinions. Not to try to validate whether or not an opinion is allowed to be had because you're being unfair to others. When you say you should not say what you think or criticise because it is just attacking other people and unfair, you are ignoring and not arguing the ideas. "You're just hating on Fitzy and Caceres" is just lazy thinking. It's using emotional condemnation and offence to close down the debate. Sometimes people may just be intent on a pound of flesh. Sure. I'm not. Never have been. Hope that's been evident over my years on here.

Thrilled to discuss why players are being hard done by or what's happening and why I have the wrong end of the stick. And I'm absolutely willing to change my mind and also to say sorry if conflicting and better evidence presents itself. But it's a forum, so I'm not going to hold off having an opinion because someone doesn't like it, or because you can't possibly know all things. Can only go off what I've seen, the things that are out there and are being said. Argue to the contrary fine, but Bell keeps clearly implying that anyone who does so is doing the wrong thing and wrongfully damaging others.

So you want to go on a football forum for discussion and debate yet want to have a crack at me every time I put in my two cents??? I disagree with you, you disagree with me, that's life, I just don't have the time or energy to write a twelve page detailed essay on everyone of my opinions (incl bibliography). Clearly you do.

I don't need to give my sources mate, amazingly i couldn't care less about your need for names, like you said, it's a football forum. For what it's worth though it's not the players we've discussed (as it probably seems) but they're two people that would have a fair idea what is goin on with the club and more specifically the players.

As for TW, Hutch and the club bending the truth, yes that's what I believe. I'm sure not everything is a lie, but once again if you're happy to eat everything the club (or any professional club for that matter) feeds you, go for your life.

More will come out over the weekend id imagine. First Bos was the bad influence, then Reddy, now these 4 or 5, whose next if we lose a couple on the trot?

 

[pjennings]

So you want to go on a football forum for discussion and debate yet want to have a crack at me every time I put in my two cents??? I disagree with you, you disagree with me, that's life, I just don't have the time or energy to write a twelve page detailed essay on everyone of my opinions (incl bibliography). Clearly you do.

I don't need to give my sources mate, amazingly i couldn't care less about your need for names, like you said, it's a football forum. For what it's worth though it's not the players we've discussed (as it probably seems) but they're two people that would have a fair idea what is goin on with the club and more specifically the players.

As for TW, Hutch and the club bending the truth, yes that's what I believe. I'm sure not everything is a lie, but once again if you're happy to eat everything the club (or any professional club for that matter) feeds you, go for your life.

More will come out over the weekend id imagine. First Bos was the bad influence, then Reddy, now these 4 or 5, whose next if we lose a couple on the trot?

I think this is the crux of the matter. We don't know the truth, you don't know the truth, we all make our own observations and we all have our own 'sources' which we don't want to or won't reveal. I really haven't heard too much disrespectful from the club or this forum towards the players. I haven't heard anything from the players disrespectful to the club. Not everyone will agree on the qualities of particular players that is the nature of a forum.

I've been following Anthony since Adrian Caceres showed me a video of him as youth before his spell in the NYL. I would love home to have a breakout year - but I have been waiting for a long time. If his manager, the disrespectful one that calls us pub team FC keeps on telling him he is a star when he clearly isn't then the only one that I know that is not telling the truth and is being disrespectful is his manager.

As for Fitz, we all know that he wanted to leave and follow Arnie. Arnie was the reason he came back here from Queensland, he was very clear about that at the time. That is no surprise. I would also love to see him succeed at a higher level - but he needs to step up to do that.

 

[Forum Phoenix]

So you want to go on a football forum for discussion and debate yet want to have a crack at me every time I put in my two cents??? I disagree with you, you disagree with me, that's life, I just don't have the time or energy to write a twelve page detailed essay on everyone of my opinions (incl bibliography). Clearly you do.

I don't need to give my sources mate, amazingly i couldn't care less about your need for names, like you said, it's a football forum. For what it's worth though it's not the players we've discussed (as it probably seems) but they're two people that would have a fair idea what is goin on with the club and more specifically the players.

As for TW, Hutch and the club bending the truth, yes that's what I believe. I'm sure not everything is a lie, but once again if you're happy to eat everything the club (or any professional club for that matter) feeds you, go for your life.

More will come out over the weekend id imagine. First Bos was the bad influence, then Reddy, now these 4 or 5, whose next if we lose a couple on the trot?

Agree to disagree is fine. And leave off with all the dragging through the mud stuff and I don't have a problem. I do write a lot. Not apologising for it. And not expecting essays. Didn't ask for names so please lets stick to the facts.
Which is my point. If their are no sources given and no facts given, why should I not believe what Hutch and TW say?
You don't think your sources are as capable of bending the truth but you think TW and Hutch are? Pretty compelling evidence as to why the players wanted to break their contracts out of self interest, but you just see that as slander.
And then only give an emotional opinion. Don;t you see the problem this creates?

Just tell me what TW and Hutch have to gain by all this? One line is fine. It just makes ZERO sense to me.

 

[Big Al]

Agree to disagree is fine. And leave off with all the dragging through the mud stuff and I don't have a problem. I do write a lot. Not apologising for it. And not expecting essays. Didn't ask for names so please lets stick to the facts.
Which is my point. If their are no sources given and no facts given, why should I not believe what Hutch and TW say?
You don't think your sources are as capable of bending the truth but you think TW and Hutch are? Pretty compelling evidence as to why the players wanted to break their contracts out of self interest, but you just see that as slander.
And then only give an emotional opinion. Don;t you see the problem this creates?

Just tell me what TW and Hutch have to gain by all this? One line is fine. It just makes ZERO sense to me.

Clean out is my only logic but as seen if you shut up and co-operate (bosnar) you will be paid out and allowed to move on.

The boys are disappointed because we are there only hope and they are loosing that.

Bell are they not playing because in your opinion
1. Not good enough
2. Crossed the coaches
3. Poor form
4. Should be but others got lucky and beat a weakened Nix
5. Should be they are better players
6. Club wants them out

 

[Forum Phoenix]

Re the clean out, yeah, but a clean out of Cac and Fitzy, especially at this juncture would have been crazy right? And we heard agitation from Caceres manager long before we heard something form the club - and then his form as a manager is pretty on record. (only imagine how disparaging he was off it).

Also Bell, fwiw, was not trying to have a go at you personally mate. Just challenging what you were saying and what to me came across as emotional defense of your own opinions.

 

[Big Al]

Re the clean out, yeah, but a clean out of Cac and Fitzy, especially at this juncture would have been crazy right?

Yes but if it's a viable answer Caceras was simply not part of the plan.

To me Caceras hates loosing and that's fine, but he wants someone else to fix it. Monty as an example will go out and try fix it himself. Some people will just try harder and give their guts and more to make something happen and others drop their shoulders and walk when they turn the ball over.

Hence Caceras sitting because he got called out for his effort. If we can all see it why can't a coach who had him as a youth. O he did see it

Anyway he should be gone very soon and discussion moves to the others who we know less about because they have kept there representatives quite.

 

[Forum Phoenix]

That had to be the best 45 minutes played by such a young squad in HAL history. Cant believe thats a dressing room in trouble or cosches who dont know what they're doing.

 

[Bell]

Clean out is my only logic but as seen if you shut up and co-operate (bosnar) you will be paid out and allowed to move on.

The boys are disappointed because we are there only hope and they are loosing that.

Bell are they not playing because in your opinion
1. Not good enough
2. Crossed the coaches
3. Poor form
4. Should be but others got lucky and beat a weakened Nix
5. Should be they are better players
6. Club wants them out

I'm a superstitious man and the more I argue the better we seem to play so I'll reply again!

Honestly, it's a bit of each. I have no issue with the boys being dropped on form, none of them have been great this year BUT each of them have been played out of position in a game plan that exposed them through little fault of their own IMO. The game plan has now been rectified and we and the players are seeing the benefit.

They've all been punted though not just dropped, told to move on immediately if they can (and most will) so it's a lot more than just being dropped. From starting one week to being completely out of favour and told to pack your bags a day later... No one can tell me that's normal practice.

 

[Big Al]

I'm a superstitious man and the more I argue the better we seem to play so I'll reply again!

Honestly, it's a bit of each. I have no issue with the boys being dropped on form, none of them have been great this year BUT each of them have been played out of position in a game plan that exposed them through little fault of their own IMO. The game plan has now been rectified and we and the players are seeing the benefit.

They've all been punted though not just dropped, told to move on immediately if they can (and most will) so it's a lot more than just being dropped. From starting one week to being completely out of favour and told to pack your bags a day later... No one can tell me that's normal practice.

Thanks Bell not arguing just getting your thoughts and got them. Thanks
Understand your thoughts and agree with most to a point.
My rationale is a clean out. Prob wrong but apart from outright irreversible decent it's the only thing that adds up

 

[FFC Mariner]

That had to be the best 45 minutes played by such a young squad in HAL history. Cant believe thats a dressing room in trouble or cosches who dont know what they're doing.

Get rid of troublemakers and look what happens

 

[midfielder]

Get rid of troublemakers and look what happens

plus 99999999999999999999999999999 to the power of 9999999999999999999999999999

 

[adz]

plus 99999999999999999999999999999 to the power of 9999999999999999999999999999

Infinite + 1?

 

[Capt. Awesome]

Walmsley said in the post match we are signing a striker this week. He is Australian, has played for 2 EPL clubs and a championship club as a youth and has been out of the game with a shoulder reconstruction. Who could this mystery striker be???

 

[nebakke]

Walmsley said in the post match we are signing a striker this week. He is Australian, has played for 2 EPL clubs and a championship club as a youth and has been out of the game with a shoulder reconstruction. Who could this mystery striker be???

Hmmm... Beats me... I thought for sure we'd end up with Brett Holman - as I think he's looking around now. But the UK experience certainly doesn't seem to be youth there...

 

[pjennings]

Matthew Fletcher?