Mariners 2012 AFC Champions League megathread

[Forum Phoenix]

I concur with the Arnie back lash absurdity. Frustrating to read. But pain does that and coupled with all the moving talk... You see why itpops up. But I'd say definitely only a very small minority.

I strongly agree with Celery however, persisting with Sutton and keeping Bernie benched has been the biggest mystery to me.

Nice post Kareem

 

[pjennings]

I concur with the Arnie back lash absurdity. Frustrating to read. But pain does that and coupled with all the moving talk... You see why itpops up. But I'd say definitely only a very small minority.

I strongly agree with Celery however, persisting with Sutton and keeping Bernie benched has been the biggest mystery to me.

Nice post Kareem

While I agree with the Arnie sentiments - I disagree with the Bernie ones. Sutton might be slow bit he puts the effort in a lot albeit a lot of it unnoticed off the ball. I am yet to see Bernie work hard when he has started a game. If he knows he only has 30 minutes he might put in an effort or he might not.

 

[nebakke]

While I agree with the Arnie sentiments - I disagree with the Bernie ones. Sutton might be slow bit he puts the effort in a lot albeit a lot of it unnoticed off the ball. I am yet to see Bernie work hard when he has started a game. If he knows he only has 30 minutes he might put in an effort or he might not.

I've been a bit confused by the Bernie sentiment actually, that's another one I've seen around quite a bit lately. However, in the first half of the year he was slammed for being lazy. I definitely think his work-rate has gone up again, but I also think that it improves significantly when he goes on around the 65th minute. He's an explosive style sprinter, playing in a "lesser" league, it's not an enormous surprise that he might not have the fitness to play at full power throughout a full game.
However, I don't understand the dispositions such as not putting him off earlier against Perth then the forwards started struggling, or even more so in this week's game, when Kwazza was replaced by Hearfield rather than putting Bernie on at half-time.

A) The only goal Hearfield has scored in recent time, he was actually playing in his traditional defensive role (something about our defenders???)
B ) Bernie could probably push that bit extra in a single game if he really had to

 

[Wombat]

Yeah. Must be exhausting picking 10 balls out of the net in four days. Seriously, why would he need a rest? If he were anywhere else on the park I might agree. I doubt that there is anything wrong with his head over this.

The biggest mystery of the year for me is why Arnie has persisted with Sutton, rather than do what he did last year - blood some youth. Surely we have strike power in our championship winning youth team,eg, Duke.

The irony is that Arnie was forced, due to suspensions, etc,to use this game to mix things up a bit personnel-wise, but unfortunately it was the defence was the target. And apart from a 15 minute spell in the first half it flopped badly.

The positive is that one day we WILL rediscover our 'mojo' and again be the team of the first half of this season.

I will be travelling down the F3 to support the boys for the Tainjin match, hoping to finish the season on a positive note.

12 times including the disallowed goal actually......and maybe you are right and he has hurt his back......tough job being the ball retriever!

He is either overrated or tired.....I like to think it's tiredness.

 

[Wombat]

While I agree with the Arnie sentiments - I disagree with the Bernie ones. Sutton might be slow bit he puts the effort in a lot albeit a lot of it unnoticed off the ball. I am yet to see Bernie work hard when he has started a game. If he knows he only has 30 minutes he might put in an effort or he might not.

Pat,
I rate you as a very decent judge normally but I feel you are way off the mark re Sutton and Bernie.

I had big expectations re Sutton but he has been very very poor. He has had two ok games and the rest has been shite. He is built like a brick shithouse but sadly he moves like one as well. Apparently he was on big money so that can be the ONLY reason he was picked in front of Bernie.....i.e....we've paid the dosh..let's get some return.
He has a decent touch but I have played with better and more clinical strikers in over 35 A on the central coast.

If anyone thinks Bernie is lazy or only a impact player.....then Id have to question your knowledge of Football. He is a typical flawed African style striker (see his missed volley attempt against Glory for reference) but he is a tremendous talent and I find any questioning of his work rate staggering....especially compared to sutton.

Wake up Arnie and wake up people.

 

[pjennings]

Pat,
I rate you as a very decent judge normally but I feel you are way off the mark re Sutton and Bernie.

I had big expectations re Sutton but he has been very very poor. He has had two ok games and the rest has been shite. He is built like a brick shithouse but sadly he moves like one as well. Apparently he was on big money so that can be the ONLY reason he was picked in front of Bernie.....i.e....we've paid the dosh..let's get some return.
He has a decent touch but I have played with better and more clinical strikers in over 35 A on the central coast.

If anyone thinks Bernie is lazy or only a impact player.....then Id have to question your knowledge of Football. He is a typical flawed African style striker (see his missed volley attempt against Glory for reference) but he is a tremendous talent and I find any questioning of his work rate staggering....especially compared to sutton.

Wake up Arnie and wake up people.

I'm just calling it like I see it.

There is no doubt that Sutton has been underwhelming. My point is more to do with work rate. Sutton started off looking uninterested but over the last few weeks was really pushing himself. I think he was surprised at the speed and quality of the HAL at first. Unfortunately, even when he tried he was incredibly slow.

On the other hand Bernie has a lot more speed. A few weeks ago we had Bernie, Rogic and Amini on together at the beginning. when we lost the ball in attack Musty tried to harass the defence while the other two just dropped back. After 15 minutes Musty decided his efforts weren't worth and he to dropped back, As a result we were perpetually in our own half. After this game Arnie was very circumspect in his use of the youngsters - particularly together.

If you compare Bernie to Tommy - Tommy when he first got here was stuffed after 20 minutes - at the end he could go 70 minutes before he started to fade out of the game. My problem with Bernie is that if he starts a game he fades from minute one. The fact that he is a tremendous talent and is wasting it is what pisses me off the most.

Think back to the times that Bernie has impressed you and then think was that performance as a starter or as an impact player. In my case it has always been as an impact player.

 

[finally retired]

Think back to the times that Bernie has impressed you and then think was that performance as a starter or as an impact player. In my case it has always been as an impact player.

agree with you Pat on Bernie.....he's definitely better coming on around the 60 minute mark, but unfortunately we have too many "impact players" (Kwas is infinitely better when he comes on at the 60 minute mark too ) but I would always play McBreen before Sutton.

 

[pjennings]

So would I!!

 

[MrCelery]

Pat, I have to agree with Wombat on Sutton.

It's OK to say he's upped his workrate off the ball. But any numpty can run around off the ball.

I'd rather have a forward bouncing around the the top third like a pin ball, sometimes defending in depth, always being a nuisance, and scoring goals regularly as well.

Of course, I'm describing Matty Simon!

 

[Roy Law]

Sutton... He is built like a brick shithouse but sadly he moves like one as well.

Love it!
Personally I am very much in the Bernie camp but at the end of the day it is up to him to convince Arnie, not you or me, that he is worth playing regularly for 90 minutes.

 

[ballantyne]

Sutton's lived up to his hype: he is the brother of a good player! I think Mariners have made him look worse than other teams might - we've been pinned back in our own half for long periods and that's hardly his fault. Our transition has been slow, our confidence low, our attack relying too much on overlapping fullbacks. Nevertheless, I'd start Kwas and Bernie every time.

 

[Forum Phoenix]

I agree with Wombat, though Pat to a degree also. Wombat is dead on about the classical African style striker flaw as I see it. But yes he has been better generally when played off the bench. I think he still isn't aware of his own limits yet and paces himself incorrectly when he starts and could definitely afford a higher sustained tempo. He is young. And needs guidance and experience.

But really to me that's moot, as Sutton has proven "all but" ineffective.

If there is almost no possibility of scoring, as there are with Sutton, who is also not featuring in assists, then arguments about Bernie's work rate become frivolous. He is plain and simply a much more ambitious and dangerous striker who has a better return rate than Sutton.

 

[ccmmic]

http://news.theage.com.au/breaking-news-sport/refreshed-mariners-target-elusive-acl-win-20120430-1xue7.html

Well-rested and refreshed, Central Coast coach Graham Arnold is hoping the Mariners can breathe life into their fading Asian Champions League (ACL) campaign against China's Tianjin Teda on Tuesday.

The Mariners sit last in Group G with two matches to play but Arnold believes they still remain a hope of securing a top-two finish and progressing to the knockout stage.

That would require a win at Gosford on Tuesday and another in their final match away to Japan's Nagoya Grampus in a fortnight - no mean feat for a side yet to win an ACL match in 10 attempts.

But Arnold expects to see the Mariners of old after a much-needed two-week break following a hectic schedule of A-League and ACL comprising eight matches in just over a month.

The Mariners looked a shadow of the side that claimed this season's A-League Premiers' Plate in their last ACL clash, a 5-0 trouncing by Seongnam Ilhwa in Korea on April 18.

"They've got the power back in their legs," Arnold said of his players on Monday.

"They've trained the house down the last few days, they look like they were before and I'm expecting a fantastic performance."

The heavy defeat in Seongnam dealt a blow to the Mariners' goal difference (-5) and could hurt their chances of progression, but Arnold is confident two wins of any margin will get his side through to the next round.

"Everything's still in our hands at the moment," Arnold said.

"If we win tomorrow night 1-0, then go to Nagoya and win 1-0, we're there."

Mariners captain Alex Wilkinson agreed they were reinvigorated but admitted there were some demons to exorcise from the loss to Seongnam.

"Everyone can say that we backed up three days after the (preliminary final loss to Perth) but still, it was nowhere near good enough," he said of the performance.

"... but the boys are looking really sharp."

Arnold has virtually a full strength squad with left back Josh Rose returning from suspension.

Tom Rogic is expected to start in midfield ahead of fellow young gun Mustafa Amini, who will likely make his last appearance in Gosford before returning to German club Borussia Dortmund after being signed and then loaned back for the season.

 

[Wombat]

Come on you yellows!!

Lets give Amini a decent send off as he is clearly a good lad.

Looking forward to this one and hopefully no Thugs in Bibs this game.

 

[true believer]

go mariners, time to shine

 

[Jocwa08]

Sign this bojic bloke up now!

 

[gull]

Sign this bojic bloke up now!

Yep - having a blinder!

 

[Jocwa08]

Yep - having a blinder!

Mm that hurts, silly yellow.

Kws killing me!!

 

[Brighty]

I only got to see the 2nd half via stream and tell me I'm wrong.... but it could've gone into double figures if we actually netted the blinding misses a few of the lads had!!

All in all, we're still in it... albeit, only just!! But bring on Nagoya!!!

 

[Jocwa08]

I reckon we could have had atleast 9