"I for one welcome our insect overlords" - The Politics Thread

[dibo]

If you're 90% sure you're issuing your last budget, you can go chasing re-election or you can go legacy shopping.

They've locked in B, and if it is their last budget history will look on them kindly. DisabilityCare and Gonski are major reforms that will be remembered in 20 years and more. Whether or not 2012/13 was a surplus budget won't.

 

[hasbeen]

Or option C ... you can landmine it for the incoming Government.

 

[dibo]

Gonski and Disability Care are landmines? That's a particularly awful view of politics you have there.

 

[hasbeen]

Any long term project without proper funding is a landmine. And the 2 you mention are not only landmines but wedge politics at it's worst.

 

[dibo]

If you think the only reason that the two programs are in place is to wedge the Coalition and destroy the budget, you are off with the fairies. I suppose medicare and the age pension were just put in place by Labor to wedge tories and destroy the budget too?

For all you claim to not be a Liberal voter, you write as if you work for them - barely anyone else would be so determined to see ill in good programs.

The Libs think everything's a ploy, it's all about them (i.e. beating them). Some things are done because they're the right thing to do (whether you're going to win the next election or not). The Libs are so cynical and so absorbed in partisan politics that they can't imagine anything else now. They've forgotten what policy for its own sake looks like. Policy has been abandoned for politics, consideration for combat.

Hardened Libs and their supporters can't see it because it's all they've done since Abbott rolled Turnbull in 2009.

There's a problem with seeing demons in everything, you don't notice when you see one in the mirror.

 

[scottmac]

Any long term project without proper funding is a landmine. And the 2 you mention are not only landmines but wedge politics at it's worst.

These 2 things are do at all costs, type of things. They just need to happen.
It doesn't matter where it comes from or how unpopular its going to be, just f**king do it.

 

[midfielder]

Budget papers for anyone who needs a sleeping pill... yep the actual budget papers...

http://www.budget.gov.au/2013-14/index.htm

 

[midfielder]

The single biggest issue I have with the budget is the forecast estimates for the last few years the level of growth was way over the top ... this current budget assumes our balance of trade will grow by just over 3% this year... this may be right but no one else thinks so... further that problems will go away ... best example that the number of boat arrivals will fall next year when year on year they have grown...

There are some structural problem with the commonwealth government revenue streams... and spending programs have been put in place when the structural revenue stream issues are unsolved.

Key Revenue Structural issues... as seen by Midfielder

• the mining tax is bringing in a fraction of what was tho ... Carbon Tax the same a fraction of what was forcast [ALP]
• Tax on superannuation is beyond a joke ... eg say a public servant in one of the old schemes and there are a lot of em... or similar person a public one... but lets keep with the public servant ... the person receives normally 80% of their average highest salary over either 3 or 5 years tax free.... so lets assume hubbie and wife both earn $ 100, 000 ...they will get $ 80, 000 each or $ 160, 000 untaxed and indexed for life... this is a crazy amount ...[Libs]
• GST ... many people use the net to buy their goods from OS and pay no GST on anything under $ 1, 000.00 [legally], and often well above that with non disclosure. The UK for example has a limit of $ 20.00.... [both]
• The high dollar [which I think will fall to 80 cents within twelve months] has impacted hugely on the profits of small business... [both but ALP worse]
• World wide issue of the international web traders i.e. Amazon, Google by trading all over the world they pay almost no tax and Australian online companies are starting to do the same.. i.e. say 10 years ago you want a new pedal for your bike... go down to the local bike shop ... the guy who sold it to you paid PAYG on his wages, the business paid tax on its profit and the business paid GST... You go onto the net buy it directly from China and no tax anywhere .... some many example ... book shops, white goods etc... [World wide issue neither ALP or Libs fault]

Final note read the other day that the number of people employed by small business has risen from the mid 50's a few year ago to 60% ... I honestly get the feeling that both sides of government and their advisor's have no practical understanding of small business... of all the PM's [Hawke is my pick of the best] only Howard did things for small business and if I could [being in small business myself] point to one area of disappointment it is how junior are government minsters and government time spent looking at small business...

 

[true believer]

the gst on internet purchases was raise by junior baird .i thought it has the only worthwhile thing to come out of O'farrell inc.
the problem of google and others using 3rd party companies to evade tax is something thats needs
to have a bipartisan discussion and legislation. this won't happen while the libs are attacking treasury officials that were large appointed by them.

 

[true believer]

Every organisation has its shonks - the Labor movement is 2 million strong, so of course we have our share.

Obeid is the godfather in all this, and I'm glad to say I'm part of that wing of the ALP that has always opposed the Obeid group. McDonald was in the Left, but was punted long before the ICAC business, and a Premier (from the Left) punted him from the ministry before 'Obeid's girl' Kenneally reinstated him.

the libs have more obied family members in their party than labor.
whether they be ziather's,shabot's,essa's or even habkouk's . it's a matter of media hype.
imagine if labor tried the criminal deal being done on the bangaroo site by O'farrell inc.
once again dibo .nsw labor problems go back further than the unsworth days . drastic action needed
to be taken .it still hasn't ,it's probably to late . we'll lose a majority in both houses next election .
with no independent media . it may become a criminal offence to be a union member
( remember the building industry commission ) 1933 here we come again.

 

[hasbeen]

Ha ha ha ha ah ... how long a bow are you trying to draw to infer the Libs are worse than Labor in the Obeid (yeh that's the right spelling) affair. Rusted-ons will ever admit to anything but will always deflect & obfuscate. Well done son, you prove my point every single time you post. And of course the MSM bias hype never fails.

 

[dibo]

Ha ha ha ha ah ... how long a bow are you trying to draw to infer the Libs are worse than Labor in the Obeid (yeh that's the right spelling) affair. Rusted-ons will ever admit to anything but will always deflect & obfuscate. Well done son, you prove my point every single time you post. And of course the MSM bias hype never fails.

I've got mates who *work* for the Coalition who are less one-eyed than you.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, and it's clear that a little knowledge is all you're packing.

 

[true believer]

Ha ha ha ha ah ... how long a bow are you trying to draw to infer the Libs are worse than Labor in the Obeid (yeh that's the right spelling) affair. Rusted-ons will ever admit to anything but will always deflect & obfuscate. Well done son, you prove my point every single time you post. And of course the MSM bias hype never fails.

ooh back to the word you learnt from the x -files? good one . sorry fool, i named family names
anytime you want to roll off,oh say a normanhurst party roll let me know.
rent boy is still out there,maybe.

 

[midfielder]

Why Bogans Hate Politics ...

 

[style_cafe]

The single biggest issue I have with the budget is the forecast estimates for the last few years the level of growth was way over the top ... this current budget assumes our balance of trade will grow by just over 3% this year... this may be right but no one else thinks so... further that problems will go away ... best example that the number of boat arrivals will fall next year when year on year they have grown...

There are some structural problem with the commonwealth government revenue streams... and spending programs have been put in place when the structural revenue stream issues are unsolved.

Key Revenue Structural issues... as seen by Midfielder

• the mining tax is bringing in a fraction of what was tho ... Carbon Tax the same a fraction of what was forcast [ALP]
• Tax on superannuation is beyond a joke ... eg say a public servant in one of the old schemes and there are a lot of em... or similar person a public one... but lets keep with the public servant ... the person receives normally 80% of their average highest salary over either 3 or 5 years tax free.... so lets assume hubbie and wife both earn $ 100, 000 ...they will get $ 80, 000 each or $ 160, 000 untaxed and indexed for life... this is a crazy amount ...[Libs]
• GST ... many people use the net to buy their goods from OS and pay no GST on anything under $ 1, 000.00 [legally], and often well above that with non disclosure. The UK for example has a limit of $ 20.00.... [both]
• The high dollar [which I think will fall to 80 cents within twelve months] has impacted hugely on the profits of small business... [both but ALP worse]
• World wide issue of the international web traders i.e. Amazon, Google by trading all over the world they pay almost no tax and Australian online companies are starting to do the same.. i.e. say 10 years ago you want a new pedal for your bike... go down to the local bike shop ... the guy who sold it to you paid PAYG on his wages, the business paid tax on its profit and the business paid GST... You go onto the net buy it directly from China and no tax anywhere .... some many example ... book shops, white goods etc... [World wide issue neither ALP or Libs fault]

Final note read the other day that the number of people employed by small business has risen from the mid 50's a few year ago to 60% ... I honestly get the feeling that both sides of government and their advisor's have no practical understanding of small business... of all the PM's [Hawke is my pick of the best] only Howard did things for small business and if I could [being in small business myself] point to one area of disappointment it is how junior are government minsters and government time spent looking at small business...

The biggest problem for small business is getting recognised.
Governments think of a small business as employing under 100 people.
The self employed & under 10 employee businesses are lumped with the same paperwork as much larger companies.
ie. Why would tradie do a safe work method statement, risk assessment statement etc. when he works on his own & instinctively looks out for his own well being.
another is the burden of the new work reporting scheme for the taxation dept.
Govenments are killing us with all this stuff.

 

[FFC Mariner]

On a side note but with a nod towards the Governments ineptitude perhaps.

Can someone tell me why the NDIS is opening physical offices? They are currently converting a big site in Charlestown which is in such a location that anyone going there from Centrelink needs to cross 2 roads (hello, disabled people).

Only here as we see the 2nd industrial revolution unfold would anyone be so stupid as to open a bricks and mortar service model.

 

[dibo]

Have you noticed that not everyone uses the internet?

 

[true believer]

tonys patiented behaviour was heighted yesterday on the coast.
after the previous day getting panned by the indonesians, about the impossiblity of "turning around boats and that indonesesa is not where they come from".
tony the next day blames labor for damaging the relationship with indonesia ,FFS.
little sir echo syndrome when he f'ks up or get caught is his standard defence .while this is never
exposed because of the lack of scrunitany by the media . as well as the libs hide tony from any hard
questions.
it's something to note about phoney tony

 

[midfielder]

Tis interesting if you attempt [anyway] to take a dispassionate view to the Rudd/ Gillard time in power..

The last 18 months or so of the Howard Government for various reasons including maybe it's good if a leader steps down after over ten years at the top ... i.e. stop believing your own BS...

But the last 18 months of the Howard government they kinda lost the will almost to continue the reform process that had been ongoing from 1973 .... R/G governments just held power and essentially IMO anyway have had no desire to test us on whether we understand a grander economic plan... The narrow hold in parliament has arguably been the reason for IMO a paralysis of continual reform... essentially living off the back of past reforms...

Hawke, Keating & Howard all in their early years openly attacked past practices ... but the final 18 months maybe two years of the Howard years and the entire R/G period there has been very little reforms other than some new taxes and expensive new programs... arguably the biggest of these is the taxation of superannuation benefits made in the last years of the Howard gov where essentially for most people the income received from SF's is tax free ... actually more it not considered income ... resulting in massive payments to a select few [but not a small few] with no tax being collected...

The US made major structural reform about two years ago and the results are starting to show tho.... Greece [forced to maybe] made enormous structural reforms however things are starting to turn around in Greece as well OK off a very low base and still massive problems I accept....

Whitlam, Hawke, Keating, Howard never had to operate in a minority gov.. beyond that all were at different times prepared to take on their own party and argue their position ....Whether is the 24/7 news cycle or maybe some group think...hhhmmmm we are great just look at us ....

Most disappointing for me is as I mentioned in an earlier post 61% of Australians run or work in small business... if 5 % are unemployed.. it means only 34 % of the country is employed by governments and big business and yet I see no polices from either side to assist small business ... even things like proper training and standards is under question... many of these issues cross Commonwealth / State boundaries and get lost as they blame each other ... as TAFE moves from providing education to being a training centre and given university funding looks like being cut is small business to pick up the cost of training

My point is has a minority gov worked in Australia or Our the current leaders so caught up in the 24/7 news cycle they have forgotten some hard decisions need to be made... Or does the current crop come from a different neck of the woods and lack the courage to make big hard calls...

As an aside who got free education, baby boomer's, who has all the super tax breaks baby boomer's, who owns most of the houses baby boomer's, ..... who will need a massive increase in medical and pension payments baby boomer's.... who will have to pay for it all ... HHHHHHMMMMMmmmm I have always believed sometime over the next ten years a generational war will take place with some boomer's earning $ 180, 000 and more tax free sitting in their waterfront home wanting folk earning a third of what they do paying rent to pay for their increasing medical costs... while education programs cuts are made to their children's education ..

 

[FFC Mariner]

Have you noticed that not everyone uses the internet?

I imagine such arguments being made in the last IR

"not everybody uses trains, cars aren't for everyone. Oh, I think there is a place for gas lighting"

Etc etc

As Mr Bragg said. here comes the future, you can't run from it