A-League Expansion

[dibo]

There you go.

 

[Auburn Mariner]

Not so fast, you lot. THIS TIME, I have some support for my claims:

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/08/28/1030053061677.html

Roy was ALWAYS involved in this one. My memory is not ALWAYS skewed by Red Wine & Port.

 

[midfielder]

Playing out of ANZ?

ROFL

guaranteed income per game, and NRL figures indicate that in spite of all the complaints, crowds at homebush are actually better than most suburban grounds. souths and the bulldogs are doing very well there.

last year for example, homebush had the highest average crowds of any regularly used sydney ground in the competition (the SCG beat it with a one-off event):

S.C.G. 19,122 1 19,122
Stadium_Australia 511,059 34 15,031
Leichhardt 43,296 3 14,432
S.F.S. 171,677 12 14,306
Brookvale 141,183 10 14,118
Campbelltown 39,039 3 13,013
Endeavour 155,581 12 12,965
Parramatta 120,957 10 12,096
Grahame 46,078 4 11,520
Penrith 130,790 12 10,899

why does it get bigger crowds?

it's reasonably easy to get to, you can always get a ticket, practically every seat is undercover, 20k or so it'd even be an easy place to drive to if you were so inclined and getting food and drink or getting to the slasher is an absolute piece of piss.

don't underestimate how important the last bit is. i was at kogarah a few weeks back watching my dragons pickpocket the dogs with the aid of an idiotic video referee, and it took an absolute eternity to grab food and beer. while i love the place and think the hill is terrific, the basic amenities of the place are ratshit and that's *after* significant renovations.

kogarah's pretty typical of the 'suburban' grounds around sydney.

the only suburban ground that you would say is significantly better would be parramatta or maybe penrith. parramatta's easier for more people to get to and there's more to do near the ground, but the facilities there are nearly 25 years old and feel older. it could do with some work. if they got a summer tenant they might be able to justify enclosing the ground properly, giving cover to the northern and southern ends and improving the food and drink services etc.

in the meantime though, homebush is just easy for everyone concerned. they don't need to change a thing, they get guaranteed income, and i reckon they'll average over 20k from the start. if they get the initial backing right, some corporate interest and a competitive inaugural squad, it's the recipe for a financial and football powerhouse.

Gotta agree ... on the radio the other day Robbie Slatter said the figures are something like this $ 100, 000 per match in the normal rounds, $ 250, 000 for any ACL matches made & $ 250, 000 for finals matches.

Look at say 16 to 17 home games plus a final and that is a net two million gate, about equal to a 30, 000 game average I am told by a sports analysis mate of mine.

Also don't under estimate this teams ability to draw a big crowd.

I can recall reading about their bit.....it in part they have signed off with the all the former NSL now state league teams to 1) pay them more than the 3, 000 per signing, 2) To split any fee they sell a player for 50 50 3) The sign on fee in most contracts where Australian clubs get a percentage is also split with the former NSL club. They have similar arrangement with the associations in WS.

If they ever manage to unite the ethnic clubs and associations plus add the new football folk from WS ... boy O boy .... with a Homebush location  it has the possibility to draw a massive crowd... Blacktown, Bankstown, Southern Districts, Granville, Nepean associations... now add in Gladsville Hornsby, Canterbury, North West Womens, Ku-Ring-Gai associations must be over 100, 000 players plus families ....

Well marketed and promoted by the above associations and former NSL clubs ... this club has the potential to be that Sydney club to put the A-League on the map..

 

[Arabmariner]

Just a thought.......not a very nice one but.......

I read somewhere the other day that the Canberra bid team were concerned if they didn't get accepted this time around they may never get in.I just wonder if we have a bad year off the field with crowds,money etc are they testing the water with the two games in Canberra for a relocation of our club?

Yes I know the official reasons regarding the pitch (although the reasons are dodgy imo anyway).....but the 5 years is up at the end of next season.

I wouldn't put it past them (FFA).

 

[midfielder]

Just a thought.......not a very nice one but.......

I read somewhere the other day that the Canberra bid team were concerned if they didn't get accepted this time around they may never get in.I just wonder if we have a bad year off the field with crowds,money etc are they testing the water with the two games in Canberra for a relocation of our club?

Yes I know the official reasons regarding the pitch (although the reasons are dodgy imo anyway).....but the 5 years is up at the end of next season.

I wouldn't put it past them (FFA).

In Hal 2 or 3 someone ran a thread and said would a CC bid get up today ... most through not. Our inclusion is one of chance, first it was the start of Hal and there were not that many bids, second the coast wanted a team after the failed Northern Eagles team and the likelihood at the time that another RL team would not move to the coast meant  everyone got behind it.

Today with all the bids on the table and the likely return of a RL team to the coast.. we would not get in... so if ever Promotion & Regulation get in we better hope we never get the spoon..

The only thing that makes me think we will stay is the Center of Excellence... an investment of that size means they are here forever.... on the Canberra bid I think they will get the 13 spot and I think 13 & 14 will come in 2011 or 2012 seasons.

 

[dibo]

I think it's unlikely that they'll move the club. I think it's more likely that the club and the league are investigating using us as a patsy to trial the HAL in expansion markets (i.e. Canberra). i think the FFA would be looking to expand the footprint rather than leave a market they've put a lot of work into.

I think that if the FFA feels it is at all possible to do then they'll look to expand out to 16 teams.

The more teams you have, the more matches you have, the more players you have and the more stories you have. build it up and ensure you've got critical mass.

up to 10 - gold coast, north queensland

up to 12 - 2nd melbourne, 2nd sydney

up to 14 - wollongong, canberra

who knows where teams 15 and 16 would go. tassie for one... another NZ team?

once we're up to that point the next stop would be back into the capitals to start doubling and tripling up. 30 years from now we could have something like 24 teams across two divisions, crowd averages about where the NRL is.

 

[Auburn Mariner]

Aaron, I reckon 16 teams is a good number. This gives you a balanced 30 match season, and with the addition of an expanded ACL and the inevitable Johnny Warren Memorial Cup, you start to get a decent number of games AND the fitness that Coach Verbeek is after.

A team playing at York Park in Launceston (which now has lights) and maybe a team at Lancaster Park in Christchurch (where the cricket block is removable and the Stadium is being renovated NOW for the 2011 RWC) could be your 15th and 16th teams. Whilst Bellerive is in Hobart, it has a permanent cricket pitch that faces climatic issues, so I struggle to see that they could create a removable block suitable for First-Class and International cricket.

Very soon, you will have 5 Super 15 teams, 18 AFL teams, 16 NRL teams (there will be a Coast side, but it will involve a relocation or amalgamation or BOTH) and hopefully 16 A-League teams.  Basketball is STUFFED, so the Big Four will fight for precious crowds and corporate support.

Oh yes, and the FFA can GET KNOTTED if they EVER want to relocate the Mariners. I will personally be part of a full-on blockade of FFA headquarters and the opulent Hyundai GHQ on Lane Cove Road if they ever seriously consider this. Watch 'em react when we shut Lane Cove Road during peak hour and walk around with hundreds of LARGE Daewoo and Proton placards on National TV.

 

[Arabmariner]

I agree that 16 teams is probably the perfect number.

But three NZ teams ? I don't agree with one NZ team in our league let alone three!

I'd get shot of Welly at the first opertunity then add 2nd Melb,2nd Sydney and either South coast or if we must Canberra (it's the pits I know but at least it's Australian!).

Then see where we go from there.But I don't think an Australian national league with 3 teams from another country in it would be right.

 

[clarence]

I agree that 16 teams is probably the perfect number.

But three NZ teams ? I don't agree with one NZ team in our league let alone three!......edit..

But I don't think an Australian national league with 3 teams from another country in it would be right.

+1. Once we left the OFC we should have put then Auckland team on notice, and when they failed, went looking for another A-League team in Australia, instead of going for the Wellington Phoenix. I don't have any grudge against the Phoenix, but I feel they simply should not have been allowed to bid for the franchise. I know there was arguments about the PayTV revenue they get in NZ as a result of the A-League having a Wellington team, but this inclusion of a NZ (OFC) team in an Australian (AFC) comp. is causing some teeth grinding with our other AFC members.

In the original year of the A-League it was a bit different.

Australia was still a member of Oceania, and the future inclusion into the AFC was still on the AFC's board table. So we could have included the Auckland team without any sort of conflict of interests worries. And we qualified for the 2006 WC as an Oceania nation too.

I honestly think if we actively canvass more NZ bids for an expanded comp. the AFC will take us to task over it.  The AFC would have less worries if another team was from say, Indonesia , Malaysia or Singapore, than NZ I think. But my guess is they'd want our national comp. to be all Australian.

More NZ teams will also mean the increased likelihood that a NZ team will win something that will qualify them for the AFC-CL, but they won't be allowed to take up that qualification and the entry will instead be taken up by an Australian team THAT HASN'T WON THE RIGHT TO BE THERE. I don't know how the members of the AFC will take that, but I'd expect them to be mightily pissed off about that scenario.

 

[Auburn Mariner]

There would be only TWO NZ-based HAL teams; the Nix and the Canterbury Mullet Flannelette Horny First X Ewes.

 

[dibo]

NZ will be in the AFC soon enough, and OFC will fold in with them.

 

[FFC Mariner]

No place for the sheepshaggers in our comp.

Australia has no obligation to develop the game there

14 teams all based here

Darwin
Adelaide
Perth
ACT
Gong
3x qld
CCM
Scum
2x Sydney
2x Melb

Too easy

 

[dibo]

Darwin? Darwin?

I get that it would make a pretty picture, giving a distribution of clubs right across the country, but I'd sooner put a team on the Sunshine Coast, Hobart, Geelong, Cairns, or Toowomba (places with bigger populations than Darwin and almost certainly all with more money).

I'd even put in a second Central Coast team (Gosford vs Wyong) rather than Darwin.

 

[Auburn Mariner]

Cities of Australia, by population, over 100k:

1. Sydney 4,399,722
2. Melbourne 3,892,419
3. Brisbane 1,945,639
4. Perth 1,602,559
5. Adelaide 1,172,105
6. Gold Coast-Tweed 558,888
7. Boganopolis 531,191
8. Canberra 345,257
9. Wollongong  284,169
10. Sunshine Coast 237,562
11. Greater Hobart 209,287
12. Geelong 172,300
13. Townsville 162,730
14. Cairns 142,001
15. Toowoomba 125,339
16. Darwin 120,652
17. Launceston 104,649
18. Albury-Wodonga 102,894

 

[Kareem]

imagine that...gosford vs wyong
now thats a derby
go u gosford!!!

 

[adz]

No place for the sheepshaggers in our comp.

Agreed. Does anyone who has been over to NZ know what the general sheep f**ker attitude is toward the A-League? I can imagine a lot of them wouldn't want a bar of it as it's an Aussie comp .... ?? It ain't the "ANZ" league ....

 

[FFC Mariner]

A Baaa of it you mean Adz??

I'll get my coat..............

 

[adz]

Yeh... that was pretty baaaaaaaaaaaaaaad

 

[midfielder]

On the NZ thing .. How can you tell a bi sexual Kiwi ?? ... Simple Sheep under one arm, pig under the other.

 

[goingtoadisco]

Canberra would be a way better option for a team then Darwin.