Turbulence (then calm sailing, then turbulence) thread.

[MrCelery]

Yeah let's blame the fans who have stood by the club for 10yrs. Excellent article my arse & your an idiot if you think this is the case celery. Half acceptable, half absolute garbage.
We've had crowds of more than 10,000 before. We can do it again. It's the club, not the fans, that are found
wanting in this situation. I don't give a f**k how much money MC is losing, he obviously just doesn't want it here on the coast enough like those that have gone before him.
Think Everton's owner. He bleeds the club. He is the reason they work. Just like Lawrie & the owners of his tenure was for us.
MC doesn't understand the coast. He doesn't understand the club. He doesn't understand the family.

Ignoring the insults, lets just pick apart the article. Hopefully in an objective manner:

Football in Australia did itself no favours by opting to stage an important A-League match, featuring two clubs that have won three championships between them, at a suburban cricket ground that was woefully unprepared for top-level competition.

So you think it was a good idea?

The A-League however should bury its head in shame for allowing such a high-profile match to go ahead at such a ridiculously inadequate venue.

You disagree with that? I don't.

Muscat thought it was taking the game back years.

So you think it WAS A-League standard? I hate Muscat, but I think he was right.

Cringe at the sight of a set of players trying to control the ball on a difficult surface at a ground with no atmosphere and scant hope of delivering a spectacle.

You disagree?

When will FFA learn that you play football at a football ground not at a little cricket venue that generates no atmosphere?

You prefer a cricket venue to a football venue like Central Coast Stadium?

It is no secret that the Gosford club is struggling to make ends meet and the last thing FFA needs is another team biting the dust after the spectacular failures in Auckland, Townsville and Gold Coast.

In your opinion we are NOT struggling? Not giving a f**k about MC's losses is hardly a sound strategy.

Playing football on cricket grounds is definitely not the answer. It does not look good on television and more importantly it can be dangerous for the players.

You think games on cricket grounds ARE the answer?

A player who took part in the North Sydney match was scathing in his assessment of the surface ... and he was on the winning side. "The fringes of the pitch were perfect but in the middle it was like running on concrete," he said. "It was dangerous just to run on it so you had to avoid the middle areas. You felt your feet could give any moment and even passing the ball properly became a problem. As for the spectacle ... forget it."

Not sure who is being quoted here, but I would expect the player is more qualified than you to comment on the pitch condition.

Mariners owner Mike Charlesworth, like any self-respecting businessman, is trying to broaden the club's appeal by taking some games to new markets.

You think that new markets are NOT a good idea? You only want to cater for fans living in the Central Coast?

It is not for me to tell Charlesworth what to do with his club but it must be brought to his attention that taking games away from Gosford is at best a highly debatable measure that could lose the club more fans than it will gain.

The flip side is that you agree that the initiative was NOT debatable and the Club would actually gain more fans that it would loose? I think the author was correct.

Holding league games at grounds that are not designed for football will further diminish the club's image, let alone the collateral damage such folly will cause to the game.

You think that last Friday's game actually enhanced the Club's image? Can't agree with that at all.

"Our home ground is Central Coast Stadium and it is difficult to come and play somewhere else," Mariners coach Phil Moss lamented after the loss to Victory.

You disagree with Mossy on this?

The Mariners, who won the championship less than two years ago, have become the A-League's latest problem child and it is important that this thorny issue be dealt with smartly and with common sense.

You are saying that common sense should not be used? And the issue dealt with quickly?

Many fingers have been pointed as the league's smallest club reels from one of its worst starts to the league: it has not won since the opening round and its average home crowd is just above 7000.

You are saying that is not correct?

Yet the very fans who have been jumping up and down at Charlesworth's drastic attempt to safeguard the club's future should take a good look at themselves and recognise that they are not entirely blameless. Many complain that the club is not doing enough to engage the fans. For goodness sake, setting up a club in a very difficult and limited market and providing top-class football on a regular basis for 10 seasons at affordable prices is sufficient community engagement in my book.

What more do some supporters want ... a taxi service to the games with prawn sandwiches and champagne at halftime?

The million-dollar question that needs to be asked is: does the Central Coast want a team in the A-League or not? If the answer is 'no' the club should cut its losses, pack up and call it a day. If the answer is 'yes' then fans should get out there and support their club in its hour of need. It's time fans themselves start engaging with their own club, for a change.

Clearly you've skipped past most of the article's message about how bad the move to North Sydney Oval was and got all uppity and precious about this paragraph. I don't think for a minute that the writer is aiming at fans that DO turn up and support the Club. He's simply saying that the Central Coast community should wrest back the initiative, don't rest on our laurels, and to do it with deeds not words. Isn't that exactly what the #StandUpForTheMariners campaign is actually doing?

 

[Wombat]

From the Mariners. She said that the North Shore folk wouldn't support a team called CENTRAL COAST Mariners.

North Shore folk already support the Central Coast Mariners.
Northbridge FC can jog on.

 

[scottmac]

Ignoring the insults, lets just pick apart the article. Hopefully in an objective manner:



So you think it was a good idea?



You disagree with that? I don't.



So you think it WAS A-League standard? I hate Muscat, but I think he was right.



You disagree?



You prefer a cricket venue to a football venue like Central Coast Stadium?



In your opinion we are NOT struggling? Not giving a f**k about MC's losses is hardly a sound strategy.



You think games on cricket grounds ARE the answer?



Not sure who is being quoted here, but I would expect the player is more qualified than you to comment on the pitch condition.



You think that new markets are NOT a good idea? You only want to cater for fans living in the Central Coast?



The flip side is that you agree that the initiative was NOT debatable and the Club would actually gain more fans that it would loose? I think the author was correct.



You think that last Friday's game actually enhanced the Club's image? Can't agree with that at all.



You disagree with Mossy on this?



You are saying that common sense should not be used? And the issue dealt with quickly?



You are saying that is not correct?



Clearly you've skipped past most of the article's message about how bad the move to North Sydney Oval was and got all uppity and precious about this paragraph. I don't think for a minute that the writer is aiming at fans that DO turn up and support the Club. He's simply saying that the Central Coast community should wrest back the initiative, don't rest on our laurels, and to do it with deeds not words. Isn't that exactly what the #StandUpForTheMariners campaign is actually doing?

There's no insult there & I apologize if it came across that way.
I did say half acceptable & half garbage, I didn't disagree with the whole article as you've suggested.
That paragraph is exactly why I got so "uppity" because on a per capita basis the fans of this club do pull their weight & they do it extraordinarily in the face of some unbelievable mistreatment. I don't need to list all the reasons for our struggle for an "acceptable" crowd for you as I know your aware.
If the NSO was a made for football stadium I don't think you'd have heard about how bad the north Sydney game was for our image in that article. MVFC & Kevin muscat only care about their players welfare in regards to that move & nothing more.

As for the community wresting back the initiative, why should they? It's obviously not their club & lately they have been given no reason to believe otherwise. Ccm don't even have the local association on their side, the home of football lovers on the coast. How does anyone expect the uninterested to call it their team if those that enjoy the game most feel no attachment?

I stand by what I said. It's a bullshit article that lays the blame for our crowds squarely at the feet of those that have no reason to do anything about it.

 

[dibo]

If NSO was a made-for-football stadium I'd want an A-League club there pronto. Just not ours. But another away trip to Sydney a year would be pretty great, as would hosting another Sydney club each year in Gosford.

 

[VicMariner]

on a per capita basis the fans of this club do pull their weight

This is what I think whenever our crowds get mentioned. Per capita we get more than Victory and Wanderers!
Our fans are doing a great job to show up in greater per capita numbers than pretty much every other team in the league but are expected go above and beyond even that.
And then get criticized ffs.
It was the FFA's decision to put a license in a region like CC and MC's decision to buy into it. To then turn around and point the finger at the "customers" is just pathetic.
No one forced them into it, the supporters are already doing their bit, they should f*****g do theirs.

 

[MrCelery]

This is what I think whenever our crowds get mentioned. Per capita we get more than Victory and Wanderers!
Our fans are doing a great job to show up in greater per capita numbers than pretty much every other team in the league but are expected go above and beyond even that.
And then get criticized ffs.
It was the FFA's decision to put a license in a region like CC and MC's decision to buy into it. To then turn around and point the finger at the "customers" is just pathetic.
No one forced them into it, the supporters are already doing their bit, they should f*****g do theirs.

I'm always banging on about per capita comparisons too. I totally agree. But there's the dilemma.

If we've saturated the local market because, as you say "the supporters are already doing their bit", and we get still get less than what is required to be viable, what then?

Our core 6K membership is indeed excellent for the size of our region. Well above many other clubs. But not enough apparently to be sustainable. Keep in mind that these numbers are on the back of a sustained period of success for the Club.

The recent cheap ticket offer didn't generate much additional bums on seats. And neither did winning the Championship. That suggests that there isn't much potential left to tap on the coast until the population grows.

Accepting that the NSO venture was a dud (I do). And despite the 'mistreatment' of current Coast fans by attempting it. I think the author was right to suggest that the task of rebuilding the Club should not rest with MC alone even if he has been responsible for the breakdown. It requires positive, constructive dialogue and action from both sides. Just pointing the finger and saying 'not my problem' and 'it's not my club anyway' isn't going to achieve much.

 

[VicMariner]

I'm always banging on about per capita comparisons too. I totally agree. But there's the dilemma.

If we've saturated the local market because, as you say "the supporters are already doing their bit", and we get still get less than what is required to be viable, what then?

Our core 6K membership is indeed excellent for the size of our region. Well above many other clubs. But not enough apparently to be sustainable. Keep in mind that these numbers are on the back of a sustained period of success for the Club.

The recent cheap ticket offer didn't generate much additional bums on seats. And neither did winning the Championship. That suggests that there isn't much potential left to tap on the coast until the population grows.

Accepting that the NSO venture was a dud (I do). And despite the 'mistreatment' of current Coast fans by attempting it. I think the author was right to suggest that the task of rebuilding the Club should not rest with MC alone even if he has been responsible for the breakdown. It requires positive, constructive dialogue and action from both sides. Just pointing the finger and saying 'not my problem' and 'it's not my club anyway' isn't going to achieve much.

I don't think we have saturated the market, higher average attendances in seasons past shows there is room for growth. With the grassroots campaign for the 27th we might see what's possible. Almost everyone agrees more can be done on the CC. Get that sorted first.
My beef is CCM fans not getting credit when it's due and being bagged by everyone. Yes we have to do more and we can, but acknowledge whats already been done.

 

[scottmac]

If we've saturated the local market because, as you say "the supporters are already doing their bit", and we get still get less than what is required to be viable, what then?

Our core 6K membership is indeed excellent for the size of our region. Well above many other clubs. But not enough apparently to be sustainable. Keep in mind that these numbers are on the back of a sustained period of success for the Club.

Who says we've saturated the market? I'm saying the exact opposite & the numbers prove it.
We've been above the "magic figure" before why not again.
Any business person in their right mind would look at historical trends, see the high figures of yesteryear & wonder what did we do then that we aren't now? What can we do to achieve that again. I can tell you right now if you put 100 people in a room & asked them for a solution (assuming they all want to keep the team on the coast ;-)) there'd be a snowflakes chance in hell of any one coming up with 4 games a year in North Sydney or trying to engage a community 100 odd km's away from your home.

Obviously match day performance is not the driving factor behind an acceptable crowd for us as you've pointed out. So what's changed? I'm sure their is enough people here to come up with a list as long as my right arm as to the differences between activities on match day then & now. Activities in the community then & now. Activities with the local clubs then & now. Positive news coverage then & now. Local news coverage then & now.

Our supporters are doing their bit. It's the ones who aren't yet supporters or who were supporters that are letting us down & doesn't that sound like a stupid statement. Seriously who could f**king blame them? They're disenchanted, they're uninterested & they're now being written off. There's not a one of us that hasn't felt the same way at some point but our love of football has kept us attached. It's driven some to extreme measures to save our club. At extensive personal cost no doubt.
If that's how you get long term support for a football club then shut the f**king gates & call in the demo squad for the stadium because it'll be a white elephant for eternity.

 

[scottmac]

I'll say one more thing.

The central coast wants an identity to be proud of. Something that represents them which they feel pride for. It's no surprise that our crowd peeked when everyone was banging on about the central coast being the centre of excellence for football in Australia. The place to be if you wanted to make it in this sport.
The young players probably still believe that as they see our ex players filling the national side. The community just hears that they aren't good enough for the team & we're taking it elsewhere.

 

[dibo]

So expansion is on the cards, and a doubling of TV money.

David Gallop hints Brisbane derby on cards in A-League expansion shake-up

• Marco Monteverde
• The Sunday Mail (Qld)
• December 14, 2014 12:00AM

THE success of A-League derbys in Sydney and Melbourne has Brisbane as a likely destination for a second Queensland team when the competition expands.

Football Federation Australia chief executive David Gallop told The Sunday Mail that come the next A-League broadcast deal — set for 2017 — expansion was likely, with a 12-team competition expected.

While Gallop would not commit to a second Queensland team, and more specifically a Brisbane-based rival for the Roar, he is a huge fan of derbys and wants more in future seasons.

“There’s no question that the Melbourne and Sydney derby games have driven so much of the boom in the A-League’s crowds, TV ratings, membership and digital audiences,” he said.

“These matches showcase one of our key advantages over all the other footy brands — the atmosphere created by passionate fans.

Brisbane could host another A-League team when the competition expands.Source: News Corp Australia

“This season we’ve seen new crowd and ratings records in derby matches. The fans can’t get enough of the rivalries and for many new fans it takes just one derby experience to become hooked.

“With this in mind, it’s natural that a Brisbane derby would be a logical addition to the A-League.”

Counting against a second Queensland team being based on the Gold Coast, Townsville or Cairns are the failures of the North Queensland Fury and Gold Coast United.

The Townsville-based Fury lasted only two seasons, while not even the millions of Clive Palmer could ensure a long-term future for United, who were canned after three years.

Gallop, who was not with FFA during the existence of United and Fury, was hardly surprised they failed considering the population of their base cities.

Townsville last year had an estimated population of 190,000, while the Gold Coast-Tweed Heads’ population was slightly more than 600,000.

“My rule of thumb is that expansion should only occur in markets where there are populations in the millions, not hundreds of thousands,” he said.

“We need to fish where the fish are, and the big cities are full of football fans and players.

“There are some very promising football markets in several Australian cities, including Brisbane, but no decision has been taken about the priority.

“An expansion club needs more than just a derby.

“It will come down to broad community support and the fundamental investment decisions.”

Miron Bleiberg, the foundation coach of both the Roar and Gold Coast United, believed a second Queensland team should be based in Brisbane.

“And that’s not to take anything away from the Roar,” he said.

“On the contrary, it’s to stimulate the interest in football in Brisbane, like it has in Sydney and Melbourne.”

Gallop said FFA was pleased with the “continued growth in all metrics for Brisbane Roar”.

“Under the leadership of (chairman) Chris Fong and (managing director) Sean Dobson, the Roar have done a fantastic job in engaging with their community and local business,” he said.

“There’s no doubt the brand of Brisbane Roar has grown hugely as a result.

“Over the past three years, crowds, TV ratings and digital audiences have grown consistently in Brisbane.

“It’s one of the key markets in our overall boom.

“The membership growth is phenomenal, more than 50 per cent up on last year and now more than 11,000, a Roar club record.

“Half of our clubs are either profitable or near break-even, which is a rare achievement in the Australian sports landscape.

“We have more work ... but the next broadcast deal should provide an environment for the expansion issue to come back into the strategic plan.”

 

[dibo]

I posted this a while back:

If FFA pull down a $100m deal next time up, even if only half goes to the A-League across 12 teams you're still looking at over $4m a year. I'd expect the PFA to lobby for an immediate increase in the salary cap, but even if the cap jumped by 25% to $3.2m we'd be $800k a year better off in net terms. Surely we'd be profitable then, even on a crowd average of ~9k. And other small clubs would stand a good chance of being profitable very quickly.

This is why it's important to stay the course on the Central Coast.

If we get a $80 million deal, we're looking at *at least* $3.3m, a 1/3 increase. I'd be surprised if it weren't a good deal better than that too, because FFA's costs aren't going to scale up - we run all the national teams we are going to run, and they're not going to double in cost.

 

[style_cafe]

i always had that rule when i played soccer as a kid but it's a good idea

Unless you get an opposing coach that uses his interchange to stop the game all the time when your team is attacking...

 

[style_cafe]

So expansion is on the cards, and a doubling of TV money.

David Gallop hints Brisbane derby on cards in A-League expansion shake-up

• Marco Monteverde
• The Sunday Mail (Qld)
• December 14, 2014 12:00AM

THE success of A-League derbys in Sydney and Melbourne has Brisbane as a likely destination for a second Queensland team when the competition expands.

Football Federation Australia chief executive David Gallop told The Sunday Mail that come the next A-League broadcast deal — set for 2017 — expansion was likely, with a 12-team competition expected.

While Gallop would not commit to a second Queensland team, and more specifically a Brisbane-based rival for the Roar, he is a huge fan of derbys and wants more in future seasons.

“There’s no question that the Melbourne and Sydney derby games have driven so much of the boom in the A-League’s crowds, TV ratings, membership and digital audiences,” he said.

“These matches showcase one of our key advantages over all the other footy brands — the atmosphere created by passionate fans.

Brisbane could host another A-League team when the competition expands.Source: News Corp Australia

“This season we’ve seen new crowd and ratings records in derby matches. The fans can’t get enough of the rivalries and for many new fans it takes just one derby experience to become hooked.

“With this in mind, it’s natural that a Brisbane derby would be a logical addition to the A-League.”

Counting against a second Queensland team being based on the Gold Coast, Townsville or Cairns are the failures of the North Queensland Fury and Gold Coast United.

The Townsville-based Fury lasted only two seasons, while not even the millions of Clive Palmer could ensure a long-term future for United, who were canned after three years.

Gallop, who was not with FFA during the existence of United and Fury, was hardly surprised they failed considering the population of their base cities.

Townsville last year had an estimated population of 190,000, while the Gold Coast-Tweed Heads’ population was slightly more than 600,000.

“My rule of thumb is that expansion should only occur in markets where there are populations in the millions, not hundreds of thousands,” he said.

“We need to fish where the fish are, and the big cities are full of football fans and players.

“There are some very promising football markets in several Australian cities, including Brisbane, but no decision has been taken about the priority.

“An expansion club needs more than just a derby.

“It will come down to broad community support and the fundamental investment decisions.”

Miron Bleiberg, the foundation coach of both the Roar and Gold Coast United, believed a second Queensland team should be based in Brisbane.

“And that’s not to take anything away from the Roar,” he said.

“On the contrary, it’s to stimulate the interest in football in Brisbane, like it has in Sydney and Melbourne.”

Gallop said FFA was pleased with the “continued growth in all metrics for Brisbane Roar”.

“Under the leadership of (chairman) Chris Fong and (managing director) Sean Dobson, the Roar have done a fantastic job in engaging with their community and local business,” he said.

“There’s no doubt the brand of Brisbane Roar has grown hugely as a result.

“Over the past three years, crowds, TV ratings and digital audiences have grown consistently in Brisbane.

“It’s one of the key markets in our overall boom.

“The membership growth is phenomenal, more than 50 per cent up on last year and now more than 11,000, a Roar club record.

“Half of our clubs are either profitable or near break-even, which is a rare achievement in the Australian sports landscape.

“We have more work ... but the next broadcast deal should provide an environment for the expansion issue to come back into the strategic plan.”

How about:-
West Brisbane Wanderers , Nth Adelaide Miners, East Perth What-Evers!, as double ups or
Darwin Cyclones, Wollongong Wolves, Canberra Diplomats, Auckland Bros. as additional teams

 

[true believer]

how about gold coast ? oooh yeah ,he got elected to where he could do even more damage.

 

[sydmariner]

Unless you get an opposing coach that uses his interchange to stop the game all the time when your team is attacking...

we always lost by a minimum of 5 goals

 

[mariner72]

How about:-
West Brisbane Wanderers , Nth Adelaide Miners, East Perth What-Evers!, as double ups or
Darwin Cyclones, Wollongong Wolves, Canberra Diplomats, Auckland Bros. as additional teams

South Sydney surely only location big enough for new franchise

 

[BrisRecky]

Maybe a combined Sutho, wollongong team....plenty of support down that way

 

[dibo]

A team in southern sydney would preclude a Wollongong team. I'm not sure we want to do that.

 

[mariner72]

west Brisbane, now they are getting desperate. what value does that add to the league as a whole. maybe 10 clubs is enough until they are all stable (if that could exist). heard from a mate of mine that we'll possibly play anywhere ie tassie or Canberra if it means keeping club going never mind n syd. do clubs really make extra cash playing 'away' we played in Auckland on Sat of course, something's wrong if this is true.

 

[dibo]

west Brisbane, now they are getting desperate. what value does that add to the league as a whole. maybe 10 clubs is enough until they are all stable (if that could exist). heard from a mate of mine that we'll possibly play anywhere ie tassie or Canberra if it means keeping club going never mind n syd. do clubs really make extra cash playing 'away' we played in Auckland on Sat of course, something's wrong if this is true.

Nobody said "West Brisbane". Brisbane is a city of nearly 2 million with one club with nearly 12,000 members and crowds of over 15,000. It's not just feasible, it's likely we'll see another team in that city in the future. How near that future is we don't know.

As for the Mariners playing games elsewhere, the talk of games in Tasmania and Canberra doesn't sound right - we've played games in Canberra before and I think the Tassie talk is someone getting ideas about how the club has drawn parallels between Hawthorn playing games in Tasmania and the Mariners playing games in Sydney.

From the club's comms, taking games to Sydney is about cheaper rent and marketing to a minority of fans (and trying to grow that minority). It seems the wheels might have fallen off the cheaper rent argument with Lawrie confirming that the rent is $7,500 a pop and the club seems oblivious to the possibility that marketing to a minority of fans by taking games to them might a) not be what that minority even wants and b) damaging their relationship with the majority of fans.