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Turbulence (then calm sailing, then turbulence) thread.

justafan

Well-Known Member
Totally in agreement with concentrating on our own catchment area on the CC. This is where ccms belong.
Totally disagree with SFC consistently filling stadiums. (?) BS.
Totally sad to think that fans will only fill up stands when the team wins. True fans should always fill stands wether the team wins or looses.
 

sydmariner

Well-Known Member
2q9j9rm.jpg
:goodpost:i hope that MC & BS read this & get the message:popcorn:
 

Jaundice

Well-Known Member
FFA working toward 12-team competition

Expansion into another Brisbane team seems slightly less humorous than the talk of a second Adelaide franchise a while back.

One of the most successful clubs yet relatively mediocre crowds for a team that has a whole city, make that state to itself. The current crowds barely make the break even point for the stadium. What happens when some of these roar fans are cannibalized to the new franchise. Where are these football lovers the new club seeks to draw on that haven't been sold on the roar who arguably have been playing attractive football for years.

Who are the owners going to be, I hope they have deep pockets. Newcastle cant sell their franchise, Charlesworth cant find any investors, Victory is selling shares, Adelaide are looking to sell to recover losses and the Bakrie group are now looking to sell some of the roar.

TV money you say, well I hope so. But has anyone had a look at our ratings to see if they justify our wishful price?

I say scrap the cap and let the Brisbane Strikers in, same for other old clubs. No more unsustainable franchises and let the current ones have the power to run their clubs feasibly.

We are never going to properly expand or aspire to dreams of promotion/relegation with a solid lower tier with this model.
 

nearlyyellow

Well-Known Member
Expansion into another Brisbane team seems slightly less humorous than the talk of a second Adelaide franchise a while back.

One of the most successful clubs yet relatively mediocre crowds for a team that has a whole city, make that state to itself. The current crowds barely make the break even point for the stadium. What happens when some of these roar fans are cannibalized to the new franchise. Where are these football lovers the new club seeks to draw on that haven't been sold on the roar who arguably have been playing attractive football for years.

Who are the owners going to be, I hope they have deep pockets. Newcastle cant sell their franchise, Charlesworth cant find any investors, Victory is selling shares, Adelaide are looking to sell to recover losses and the Bakrie group are now looking to sell some of the roar.

TV money you say, well I hope so. But has anyone had a look at our ratings to see if they justify our wishful price?

I say scrap the cap and let the Brisbane Strikers in, same for other old clubs. No more unsustainable franchises and let the current ones have the power to run their clubs feasibly.

We are never going to properly expand or aspire to dreams of promotion/relegation with a solid lower tier with this model.
Gee, that's taking a fairly jaundiced ( heh heh ) view of things. I don't think this country is populous enough to support a promotion/relegation system. The FFA Cup is a great little side piece, a money spinner for the lower ranked clubs, and promotes greater interest in football. But as a vehicle to use for promotion/relegation, I don't think so. Not yet anyway. Maybe towards the end of the 2nd. decade of the A-League with an expanded competition, maybe more than 12 teams by then?

And I disagree totally with scrapping the salary cap. That is what is making the HAL viable in this country. More to come re that and PG I believe. Other clubs will be scrambling to do internal audits of their own to ensure their cap reports are valid.

Expansion? 1 new team in Sydney & 1 new team in Melbourne is my bet.
 

Capn Gus Bloodbeard

Well-Known Member
I think there's too big a gap between the HAL and state leagues, particularly in terms of funding and infrastructure. How can a team with a 2000 seat grandstand compete in a competition that requires stadiums?

I'd love to see it as a vehicle for promotion/relegation, but I can't see it working.

And yes, I do believe we need the salary cap here.
 

midfielder

Well-Known Member
From the SMH more support for staying on the Coast ... they must read this forum...
http://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/...ications-for-the-aleague-20141221-12bnkq.html

Small clubs. Every league in every sport has them. Truth is, every sport needs them. Which is why the plight of Central Coast Mariners has far wider implications than many are prepared to acknowledge. The local community has been asked to #standupforthemariners in Gosford this week. In effect, they're standing up for much more than that.

In the Darwinian world of modern professional sport, power and wealth is being concentrated in the hands of a few at an alarming rate. Check the tables of most European leagues, and you see the handful of usual suspects dominating competition in a manner that was unheard of even a decade ago. The strong are getting stronger, while the weak are struggling to survive.

Those providing the money - sponsors and broadcasters - are not overly concerned about the re-engineering process. Fair enough, it's not their remit.

But those governing sport have a different, wider, charter. Protecting the interests of the small clubs is just as important as encouraging the ambitions of the big ones, otherwise the disconnect between local communities and their clubs stretches beyond breaking point.

Once that happens the business of sport consumes the sport itself. Clubs become franchises and competitions become stockmarkets. The pursuit of profit drives everything, even when the evidence shows profit is rarely there. Is that what we want for the A-League? Me? I prefer a balance.

Thus we come back to the Mariners. A club that historically has represented the traditional model of community engagement, but which is now driven by an owner who is chasing a different dream. Mike Charlesworth believes the Mariners can represent two communities - one on the Central Coast and the other in northern Sydney - and in the process improve his bottom line. They can't, and it won't.

Early this month, the football community of northern Sydney voted with their feet when just over 7000 showed up at North Sydney Oval for the visit of Melbourne Victory. Next weekend the football community of Central Coast get to vote with their feet when the Mariners host Brisbane Roar. Once the coach of the Mariners and these days the Gosford mayor, Lawrie McKinna has planned a street march and wants more than 10,000 locals to prove the club should stay where it belongs. The battle lines have been drawn, and for the fans the choice is clear.

Charlesworth, not happy with owning a small club, wants to create a big one. You can never knock ambition, but it doesn't really work that way. A respected, well-run and competitive small club with deep roots in the local community can not only survive, but thrive. Indeed, just a couple of years ago the Mariners were breaking even, and selling a production line of players to overseas clubs for big profits.

What's wrong with that?

The A-League needs the Mariners to return to their roots and once again become a role model for how a small club should be run. Why? Because the Central Coast, with a population of 350,000, is similar in size to most of the other cities aspiring to join the competition. And unless centres such as Wollongong, Geelong, Hobart, Sunshine Coast, Cairns, Canberra, Townsville and perhaps Gold Coast eventually become part of the A-League, it will never fulfil its potential.

Right now, Football Federation Australia is looking at creating extra teams in the capital cities for the next phase of expansion. The FFA is hoping to replicate the Western Sydney Wanderers success story by introducing extra teams in Sydney, Brisbane and/or Melbourne, believing the strategy is a safer bet.

"We need to fish where the fish are," is David Gallop's favourite line. Yet sometimes small fish taste better than big ones. The Mariners and Newcastle Jets have won championships, Adelaide United last week won the inaugural FFA Cup, and Perth Glory currently sit on top of the table.

That's been the beauty of the A-League - size doesn't always matter. It's what makes it special in comparison to the rest of the world. And it's why thinking small can still make a big difference.
 

midfielder

Well-Known Member
Everyone seems to be backing us which must be having an impact... in an article on teh Roar today about the Nux I have copied a couple of line from the article..

http://www.theroar.com.au/2014/12/22/its-time-to-talk-about-the-wellington-phoenix


""The ownership, with Rob Morrison and Gareth Morgan at the head, are more committed than two A-League owners that immediately spring to mind.""'

Latter on ...

""" When you have people like Mike Charlesworth and Nathan Tinkler in charge of A-League clubs, the Wellington consortium should be worshipped for their commitment.""""
 

Jaundice

Well-Known Member
Charlesworth, not happy with owning a small club, wants to create a big one.

Although I agree with Mike Cockeril's sentiments on small clubs value, importance to leagues and respecting their roots but the premise of his argument is pretty much on this speculation of Charlesworth wanting a big club. I doubt that's the case at all.

Talk of 'big clubs' in a tiny salary capped league and comparing to giants is a little bit amiss, much like his comments in another recent blog of his comparing our crowds to Monaco in regards to sustainability but fails to mention there owner makes Gina Rinehart look like a porper.

Its the 'big clubs' that make those leagues hugely popular worldwide in turn raising the profile of the sport. What would the EPL be with a modest salary cap, I doubt teams would be selling out stadiums here for pre season fluff games. I would also argue that its more competitive for tital races than it was a decade ago.

We have a league where the 'big' clubs are restricted and all the rest are dragged up to a level that they cannot support.

He suggests we can thrive on stuff we have already been doing for years then go's onto saying we broke even when we sold a bucket load of players as if that's attainable every year.

What's wrong with that?

Well Mr Cockeril what's wrong with broadening your fanbase? What is wrong with trying to stay solvent? Its only fair that you ask yourself these as well.

Perhaps this has been a huge marketing ploy to get coasties off their backsides and support their team, who knows. I hope we get a bumper crowd come 27 december and I hope they stick around for the long haul and tell people like me a big "I told you so."
 

Gratis

Well-Known Member
Its the 'big clubs' that make those leagues hugely popular worldwide in turn raising the profile of the sport. What would the EPL be with a modest salary cap, I doubt teams would be selling out stadiums here for pre season fluff games. I would also argue that its more competitive for tital races than it was a decade ago.
This is true in leagues that can support it, Australia is a fair way off being there. We still need to permanently engage a core following in Aus. If Syd and Melb were the only two teams to win every year since the beginning then there would be hardly any followers of the other teams.
He suggests we can thrive on stuff we have already been doing for years then go's onto saying we broke even when we sold a bucket load of players as if that's attainable every year.
On this, I may be wrong but I thought we broke even and then went on and sold players for good money that year? Anyone know?
 

mariner72

Well-Known Member
Mike Cockerill's right if we want a semi pro league. Simply the league is not viable with so many smaller clubs including our Mariners. That's unless benefactors continue to pro-up clubs like has happened in the first 10 years.
 

Paolo

Well-Known Member
Although I agree with Mike Cockeril's sentiments on small clubs value, importance to leagues and respecting their roots but the premise of his argument is pretty much on this speculation of Charlesworth wanting a big club. I doubt that's the case at all.
I would have read your post but didnt make it past your firat paragraph.

“We don’t want to be sitting on the table with all the small clubs,” - MC

"We simply need to do something about that. We want to be a bigger club" - MC​
 

Jaundice

Well-Known Member
I would have read your post but didnt make it past your firat paragraph.

“We don’t want to be sitting on the table with all the small clubs,” - MC

"We simply need to do something about that. We want to be a bigger club" - MC​

That's cute Paolo.

Where are these quotes from and what is the context.
 

bikinigirl

Well-Known Member
That's cute Paolo.

Where are these quotes from and what is the context.

. i remember reading those quotes attributed to charlesworth as well (would have been an article linked here methinks) as reasoning for taking games away from the small population base of gosford ... i also remember thinking: 'what a knob ... why did you buy the mariners then? wsw would have been a better option to buy into'

. with regard to the break-even and selling players ... i think the year we supposedly broke even was many, many years before we sold off the grand final winning team. which may make you wonder, where did that money go?
 

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