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Turbulence (then calm sailing, then turbulence) thread.

scottmac

Suspended

Yeah let's blame the fans who have stood by the club for 10yrs. Excellent article my arse & your an idiot if you think this is the case celery. Half acceptable, half absolute garbage.
We've had crowds of more than 10,000 before. We can do it again. It's the club, not the fans, that are found
wanting in this situation. I don't give a f**k how much money MC is losing, he obviously just doesn't want it here on the coast enough like those that have gone before him.
Think Everton's owner. He bleeds the club. He is the reason they work. Just like Lawrie & the owners of his tenure was for us.
MC doesn't understand the coast. He doesn't understand the club. He doesn't understand the family.
 

rbakersmith

Well-Known Member
I don't give a f**k how much money MC is losing, he obviously just doesn't want it here on the coast enough like those that have gone before him.

You mean those who financially f**ked the club to the point where if MC hadn't intervened we either would have collapsed by the end of last season, been taken over by the FFA or relocated to South Melbourne? Those who left our players without pay and started the fracture in the relationship with CCF and Council?

Think Everton's owner. He bleeds the club. He is the reason they work. Just like Lawrie & the owners of his tenure was for us.
MC doesn't understand the coast. He doesn't understand the club. He doesn't understand the family.

Don't get me wrong - I think Gorman and (to a lesser extent) Turnbull did some good things, and at the same time MC has made plenty of mistakes. But I'm sick and f**king tired of them being held on a pedestal and all of the club's troubles being pinned on MC. The rot in the club had well and truly set in by the time he came in.
 

Gratis

Well-Known Member
Turnbull lost money for a long time, like most club owners. The key trouble that came up when players started missing wages etc. and talk of moving crept in was that Turnbull himself got smashed by the GFC and couldn't afford to bleed so heavily. I suspect that the troubles around that time weren't about the structures of the club so much, at least in so far as it was the same story at most clubs but with varying levels of owner wealth to absorb it.

MC saved the day with a major cash injection and taking the burden on himself. He's done nothing inherently wrong, but -
he has communicated very poorly with fans gradually putting them offside, including regularly changing his story. Had he the fans onside I suspect the 'couple of games' in north sydney might have been more widely accepted. But when the fans feel left out and confused, and then have games taken away, it just makes matters worse.

Financially we're not particularly worse off and with growing memberships and looming tv deals things are on the up. The problem is MC isn't keen on losing millions (fair enough) combined with terrible communications. Ironic really, considering how he made his money.

I can't help but feel a more transparent discussion with some of the key stakeholders - the fans -that most of these problems wouldn't be
 

scottmac

Suspended
You mean those who financially f**ked the club to the point where if MC hadn't intervened we either would have collapsed by the end of last season, been taken over by the FFA or relocated to South Melbourne? Those who left our players without pay and started the fracture in the relationship with CCF and Council?



Don't get me wrong - I think Gorman and (to a lesser extent) Turnbull did some good things, and at the same time MC has made plenty of mistakes. But I'm sick and f**king tired of them being held on a pedestal and all of the club's troubles being pinned on MC. The rot in the club had well and truly set in by the time he came in.

No one is being held on a pedestal.
They wanted a Coast club, tried his plan of attack & it failed to the point that crowds have never recovered. They learnt their lesson & abandoned it then went back to engaging the community to rebuild what had collapsed. No one is denying the club had troubles before MC.
But you can't deny he has taken those who've done the most for this club & shit all over them. Not only is he taking us down an already trodden path he's completely abandoning the people of the area.
I'd much rather be taken over by the FFA than put up with his horse shit. He is bad for this club & this will not end good purely because he's a c**t & doesn't see any way of making it work on the coast. You can carry on about how we wouldn't have a club right now without him but if he gets his way we won't have one with him either.

It's no longer our club, it's his.
 

rbakersmith

Well-Known Member
They wanted a Coast club, tried his plan of attack & it failed to the point that crowds have never recovered.

MC's plan of attack was/is to expand into Northern Sydney. As the successor club to the Spirit (don't forget the final Spirit backers were behind the Mariners being set up, and they're still shareholders) it's a not entirely unreasonable thing to do, particularly since we've always had links to the local FAs in the area.

I don't think you could compare that in any way to Gorman/Turnbull's idea of playing games in Canberra, a place where we have no historical ties at all and where their own NSL club failed due to poor crowds.
 

localpom

Well-Known Member
MC's plan of attack was/is to expand into Northern Sydney. As the successor club to the Spirit (don't forget the final Spirit backers were behind the Mariners being set up, and they're still shareholders) it's a not entirely unreasonable thing to do, particularly since we've always had links to the local FAs in the area.

I don't think you could compare that in any way to Gorman/Turnbull's idea of playing games in Canberra, a place where we have no historical ties at all and where their own NSL club failed due to poor crowds.
I don't think any reasonable fan would object to tapping into the North Sydney market as long as it is 2 games max a year. I was a Spirit fan back in the day before moving up the Coast (for the better!) so understand the connection to some degree. I can appreciate MC for the money he has put into the club but i think he has failed in uniting the club and the community over the last couple of years. There seems to be alot of angst with local football associations, council and a lack of presence in local schools. Surely we are better off getting the Central Coast community right first? I'm also concerned that he seems to have damaged relationships with key people (Lawrie, Singo, the council managers,Stadium management), possibly not been from the area he doesn't see this or just wants to do things his way? So yes, lets go after fans and sponsorship in North Sydney but not at the expense of our own neck of the woods.
 

Gratis

Well-Known Member
...Surely we are better off getting the Central Coast community right first? ...So yes, lets go after fans and sponsorship in North Sydney but not at the expense of our own neck of the woods.
this is my key thinking in all of this
 

dibo

Well-Known Member
You mean those who financially f**ked the club to the point where if MC hadn't intervened we either would have collapsed by the end of last season, been taken over by the FFA or relocated to South Melbourne? Those who left our players without pay and started the fracture in the relationship with CCF and Council?

Taken over by the FFA holds no fears for me, and MC is the only one who has talked about moving (selling, actually) the club to Melbourne.

Don't get me wrong - I think Gorman and (to a lesser extent) Turnbull did some good things, and at the same time MC has made plenty of mistakes. But I'm sick and f**king tired of them being held on a pedestal and all of the club's troubles being pinned on MC. The rot in the club had well and truly set in by the time he came in.

MC's plan of attack was/is to expand into Northern Sydney. As the successor club to the Spirit (don't forget the final Spirit backers were behind the Mariners being set up, and they're still shareholders) it's a not entirely unreasonable thing to do, particularly since we've always had links to the local FAs in the area.

I don't think you could compare that in any way to Gorman/Turnbull's idea of playing games in Canberra, a place where we have no historical ties at all and where their own NSL club failed due to poor crowds.

My beef has been consistent - I don't think he's made the business calls correctly.

I agree that PT in particular left the club in bad shape and MC had a big rescue job to do. I think PT and LG chasing the COE early means that until it's finished our finances are SNAFU.

I don't agree that the CCF relationship was broken by PT; it wasn't strong, but it was dramatically weakened when MC came in windmill punching at CCF, FNSW, FFA etc. It wasn't helped when CCMA failed to keep its women's program together, and (rumour has it) left big unpaid bills. Over-promised and under-delivered. That's under MC's watch.

Moving regular season games to Canberra was ridiculous, but they were largely following a long period of engagement down there - we'd been taking trial games to play against top Capital Football teams for a while (I think this is a key reason Tom Rogic came to us rather than Sydney, etc.). I get what they were thinking but moving regular season games was the wrong thing to do.

As far as engagement, development and player catchment is concerned we've now got similar arrangements with Western NSW Football and we've had relationships with GHFA in particular, but now increasingly with NSFA and MWFA.*

I'm absolutely fine with this - it's fostering a development pathway and protecting a catchment for our players. But moving games is wrong, *particularly* if it's a 'cap' of 9-10 games in Gosford and the rest elsewhere.

There are other ways of building the relationship that don't erode our core market, and what is *consistently* ignored by proponents/supporters of the NS moves is the simple fact that it's damaging our core market. Look at the Facebook pages and twitter feeds, the comments from local councillors, the local paper... MC has united the community *against* moving games.


* I don't quite agree that we were the successor club to Spirit - we had quite a streak of Parramatta Power too. There was probably more Spirit than anything else but to call us a successor club is a pretty long bow.
 

midfielder

Well-Known Member
Decent article on the Roar today ... about both us to NS and a new team in the Shire.

http://www.theroar.com.au/2014/12/1...ed-waters-north-south-sydney/#comment-3584882

Copy of my post and have highlighted a of my answer IMO has not been talked about in detail however could be explored.

My post on the above article.

Tony

Excellent article and well researched…

Northern Sydney is is in a transnational change in sport. Rugby has so poorly managed its park and junior structures and the general change in student demographic at the private schools has lead to the private schools today having more Football teams than Rugby teams and in some private schools Football becoming the number 1 sport.

Add to this the change in population mix with areas like Chatswood, Eastwood, Epping, Cheerybrooke and many others today having large Asia populations.

Issue is there are only two stadiums, NSO is way to close to Moore park you can see SFC lights from the grandstand… leaving Brookie which in located in the isolated North Beaches in a Rugby League heartland and today a poor stadium.

What IMO needs to be done as both stadiums have huge problems is FFA and Mariners work together to encourage people in the Northern Sydney to travel to WSW, SFC or Mariners … 1, 500 fans from NS to the coast would make it perfect..

As an aside I have two home, one in Epping and the other on the Coast… I also used to follow the Northern Spirit and I can assure you from a fan … time wise and ease of the drive or train … the Coast is easier than either NSO or Brookie especially NSO…
 

midfielder

Well-Known Member
This post on the Roar from the above article should be sent to Charlesworth ... IMO a very astute post from a Brisbane Roar fan ...



Football support shouldn’t really have boundaries, the biggest clubs in the world spend a lot of time and effort expanding their supporter base throughout the world.

Having said that the bread and butter week in week out support comes from the locals. By local we mean those within say a bus ride away from the stadium.

Was thinking the other day what was the major difference in football support between Sheffield where I grew up and Brisbane in fact any Australian city as I lived in a few of them.

Conclusion was that in Sheffield the population of 500,000 was concentrated in a small area,because of the terraced housing where most of the working class support came from ie neither Hillsborough or Bramall lane were far from their supporters,in fact where I lived in the city centre I could walk to Bramall lane in 5 minutes and even Hilsborough in 45 minutes( which I did occasionally).

Brisbane and all Australian cities are totally different then with population spread out over large distances, a fact recognised by the historical suburban competitions in Rugby League and Australian Rules and not just in Sydney. Rugby League in Brisbane and AR in Adelaide and Perth thrived for many years on suburban competitions.

If the population of 2 million in the western suburbs of Sydney lived in terrace houses and was concentrated in an area within a 15 kilometre radius of their their stadium the state government would have already built a 40,000 stadium.

This is why Charlesworth doesn’t have a clue with his North Sydney dreamland fantasy( unless as indicated there’s an ulterior motive), Lawrence Mckinna being Scottish understands the meaning of ” are you a local” in relation to the Mariners.

The Mariners are the Central Coast,the Coast are the Mariners. They’ve been going 10 years,not even a generation to pass down tradition and they do have some having been Premiers twice if I remember and Champions once ,plus what 4 appearances in a Grand Final. The Lawrie way is the right way and if the beautiful Central Coast was packed with terrace houses( God forbid) close to the stadium the average 15,000 crowd would be achieved. It’s not and as Midfielder has said said it’s spread out.

What these provincial towns need is moolah,so they can compete with the clubs in the bigger cities.

That way football fans in Hornsby downwards towards the Harbour bridge might be tempted to drive up the highway to see football played at an fit like a glove sized stadium for the Coast.
 

Paolo

Well-Known Member
Interesting paragraph in the smh about possible sharks aleague team.

Remondis Stadium, which is owned by the Sharks, is currently used about 12 times a season for NRL, costing the club $50,000 per match in maintenance and utilities, as well as another $70,000 in operational costs.
May gove rough guide for matchday costs
 

Capt. Awesome

Well-Known Member
I happen to work with the a high ranking committee member of Northbridge FC. I quizzed her about the NSO game and what she thought about whether the North shore folk think of it.

She is a Sydney FC fan and has no intension of changing. She doesn't seem to think people on the North Shore will follow the Mariners.
She said she has had quite a few meetings with Charlsworth and seems to think that all he wants to do is make the club more viable.
She also says playing at NSO sucks for so many reasons.
She also noted that there is a definite push to call the club the 'Mariners' and not the 'Central Coast Mariners'.

If Charlsworth can't convince people who are in a club we have a definite association with how will the rest of the North Shore react? This will be a failed quest. Lets just hope it doesn't kill us off before MC realises it won't work.

#standupforthemariners
 

nebakke

Well-Known Member
From the Mariners. She said that the North Shore folk wouldn't support a team called CENTRAL COAST Mariners.

If it's not already clear, I'm not a fan of pushing more than a couple of games their way.
But once that's said, in all fairness, if she already has an affinity for the Smurfs, I suspect there could be a bit of colour in her commentary, so-to-speak ;)
I'm not convinced that going to NS would have locals coming out in droves to support CCM, quite clearly there're locals there already supporting both us and the Smurfs, so there's people at NS that would support us. When I was walking up to NSO last year, all in yellow, I got a number of queries from locals who wanted to go to the game, but hadn't cared enough to book the date... So there's some level of interest there, even if they're as lazy as most of the coasties...
BUT... And that's a big 'un... I think NS crowds would be smaller than hours anytime... We're in more direct competition with both the Smurfs and WSW for fans and the fanbase attracted by being there rather than in Gosford, can't be that much bigger...
 

midfielder

Well-Known Member
The issue MC will face in time is most of the football folk from say North Sydney to Hornsby along the railway line and the main line from say Ryde to Hornsby that attend Football matches will by now have chosen SFC, WSW or us...

Rugby especially at Shute Shield level is dying and Football is increasing in the area but the pick up in numbers to a market place that by and large have already selected a team will not IMO be huge... meaning for decent numbers CC folk will have to travel down and I just can't see that happening in numbers...

Also yonks ago like way back when .. Marconi who at the time were more a district club than a ethnic club...Marconi went off when the NSL allowed Sydney United to move close enough you could see their stadium lights at night... from the Grand Stand at NSO you can see the lights at Moore park ... just cannot see FFA making the same mistake ... its more I only want next year 5 games ... then the year after 7 games etc...
 

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