Turbulence (then calm sailing, then turbulence) thread.

[Bladesman]

It was Turnbull and McCabe that started the project, not Charlesworth.

Ah, so he didn't realise what he was buying into, explains it all. Poor Mike #SayYesToNSO.

 

[MrCelery]

What do you mean 'continue to falter'? We've had three clubs die in total, one badly executed club in NZ, one prematurely started and then prematurely killed in North Queensland and one killed by the megalomania of Clive Palmer.

The Mariners have lost money for almost every year of their existence, along with every other club in the league barring Melbourne Victory and now Brisbane. It's nothing to do with being a regional club. Reports would suggest we lose less than most, it's just our owner's less willing/able to fund the operation. But most are swinging towards the black as business gets better.

We've got two years to the next TV deal. We need either for MC to pull some cash out or we need a capital injection (from FFA if need be) to get through to the next TV deal, at which point the structural position of club budgets swings further again to the black, probably lifting most if not all into regular profitability.

The FFA wants the A-League to expand. It wants owners to start new clubs. It can't have owners killing off existing clubs or burning existing markets or it will never find another new owner.

And if the TV deal does swing us around to the black and the league starts expanding again, chances are MC will more than make his money back on CCMFC. He's just got to have the patience to let it happen rather than f**king up the fundamentals of the club and guaranteeing we fail.

Love the combination of blind and optimistic!

'Blind Freddie' can see that regional teams have always struggled, whether it be A-League or NSL. You've done an excellent job of painting part of the sorry picture yourself Dibo. Name one regional Club that hasn't struggled at one time or another? To be fair, some capital cities have also been a bit precarious at times. But when push comes to shove, FFA will always protect a capital city market before a regional one, and a sponsor would see more dollars in the bigger market.

It would be nice to think that the TV deal will be the de-facto saviour of the mighty yellow and blues. Two years will be an anxious time to wait.

 

[MrCelery]

Perhaps because the parts of the COE that have been built to date aren't large revenue generators?

I'd argue that we're really only going to see a substantial revenue stream starting with the office block (for example 3 suites were sold for $5.75m back in July), followed by the hotel & licensed club.

Good point. These initiatives are certainly much more attractive than any push into North Sydney. I hope they massively succeed.

 

[dibo]

Love the combination of blind and optimistic!

'Blind Freddie' can see that regional teams have always struggled, whether it be A-League or NSL. You've done an excellent job of painting part of the sorry picture yourself Dibo. Name one regional Club that hasn't struggled at one time or another? To be fair, some capital cities have also been a bit precarious at times. But when push comes to shove, FFA will always protect a capital city market before a regional one, and a sponsor would see more dollars in the bigger market.

It would be nice to think that the TV deal will be the de-facto saviour of the mighty yellow and blues. Two years will be an anxious time to wait.

Bollocks Steve. *Every* club has struggled, the rest of what you're saying reads like paranoia. FFA is going to sell us down the river to protect a big market my arse. For a start, in this case protecting a capital city market is to protect SFC and tell us to piss off out of North Sydney.

 

[Ancient Mariner]

No one is suggesting the FFA will sell us down the river.

The FFA will not step in and take back the license, contrary to the wishes of many here.

Nor will they buy it back, (see Tinkler).

They have granted a long term license and will only step in if the current owner/s go broke and walk away and then they will take over, all or a percentage of the club.

If that does happen the FFA will do what is best for the A-League, not CCM.

And if you have been listening to Frank Lowy over the last couple of years he has clearly stated that the time is past for the FFA to bail out existing clubs.

 

[dibo]

Actually, Steve pretty much did suggest that they'll sell us out.

 

[Gratis]

reading between the lines it does seem Mossy thinks moving games is not the way to go

http://www.a-league.com.au/article/moss-laments-gun-shy-mariners/8ap5a0stz4v51h0gbj9ntd3ue
Asked how he felt about the club taking their
home game away from Gosford, Moss said: “Our
home ground is Central Coast Stadium and we’re
proud to be the Central Coast Mariners.
“We represent the community up there as well.
It’s difficult to come and play somewhere else
but our owner wants to enlarge the footprint of
the club and tap into the 20 percent membership
down here. He’s got every right to do that, he
puts a lot of money into the club.
“Our job is regardless of whether we’re playing
at North Sydney Oval, Brookvale (Oval), Central
Coast or nib (Stadium, it doesn’t matter where
we are we have to go out and play good football
and win games.”

 

[eenfish]

Bollocks Steve. *Every* club has struggled, the rest of what you're saying reads like paranoia. FFA is going to sell us down the river to protect a big market my arse. For a start, in this case protecting a capital city market is to protect SFC and tell us to piss off out of North Sydney.

We'd become a bloody capital city market hah maybe thats why they would sell us out?

 

[eenfish]

Also is Mossy hinting that we may be moving a home game to Perth? That'd be good for a laugh.

 

[Bladesman]

Good point. These initiatives are certainly much more attractive than any push into North Sydney. I hope they massively succeed.

If you have a quite Sunday yourself and RBakerSmith should take a read of the SUFC accounts for the last few years - http://www.sufc.co.uk/news/article/20131122-downloads-341951.aspx.

You will see that the way the structures are set up which is what the mariners are copying means the club ends up selling the assets to various other companies with director involvement and pays the interest on various loans from these and other companies.

If you think the property development side will lead to significant income streams for the club and ensure our financial stability then you are sadly mistaken. However as I have said a "community" minded football club is a great way to get support for "community" developments that also happen to have a significant amount of commercial component and revenue as well as getting government support and funding.

 

[rbakersmith]

You will see that the way the structures are set up which is what the mariners are copying means the club ends up selling the assets to various other companies with director involvement and pays the interest on various loans from these and other companies.

As far as I'm aware, no assets have been transferred between Central Coast Mariners FC Pty Ltd and Mariners FC Developments Pty Ltd.

The property that the COE sits on was never an asset of the club. The contract of sale was between Wyong RSL Sub Branch Club Ltd and Mariners FC Developments Pty Ltd.

 

[nearlyyellow]

I *can't* see that any revenue stream MC and interests will gain from the COE would be used to support or subsidise CCM. Except maybe for a facility to train/condition/manage the club charged at very concessional rates (atm). I think the COE was conceived when the CCM was in far better shape and was able to be used as a marketing wedge to achieve certain property development aspirations and the associated profits that would accrue to MC & associated interests. imho.

 

[dibo]

If it stops sucking cash away from the football club, that's a win for a start.

 

[nearlyyellow]

Agree with that, to the extent that MC would be prepared to pump more money into CCM (would he?) to subsidise the "losses" and not use the funds as COE development capital.

 

[dibo]

The COE might become a sufficient cash generator that while it's not necessarily linked, CCMFC becomes a standard bearer for the project and so it's effectively a travelling advertisement for the joint, making it worthwhile for MC to pour cash in to promote the COE. This is really only likely at a point where the COE is fully operational and perhaps looking to expand.

 

[dibo]

On a somewhat separate note - Harry Triguboff's Meriton group is probably going to be building shitloads of stuff on the Coast in the coming decade. One of the things that effectively brands the region and makes it somewhere people know about (and therefore might consider moving to) is the football club. Could we hit up Harry and other similar developers for cash? It's a great form of soft diplomacy for them too - if they're supporting the local team, it's harder for locals to object to developments...

But seriously, one of the things that will drive the Mariners in future years is the quality of matchday experience. If Gosford develops into a proper little city we attract more people and more money. And we make even more certain that the FFA can't abandon the market.

The club should be punching Council hard to drive the waterfront developments and have a restaurant, bar and cafe precinct right next to the ground that is an attractor in itself for people to come and make a day of it, as well as driving more accommodation etc. right in Gosford. Make it everyone's favourite away trip as well as a brilliant place to come and day-trip for a Saturday or Sunday afternoon.

This is also how you get a Singo involved - make it about developing the Central Coast. Partner with the Central Coast Bears and make the whole thing about looking to build the region's brand and build our economy. Make it impossible for the local councils to not back the sporting side/s too.

I think the COE is a millstone, it's eating up all the spare cash. I think we're just trying to be too far ahead of the game and until we're profitable (as I think we can be and will be) it's a sensible option but until then or until it's finished and fully tenanted we're trying to be too cute.

 

[nearlyyellow]

The COE might become a sufficient cash generator that while it's not necessarily linked, CCMFC becomes a standard bearer for the project and so it's effectively a travelling advertisement for the joint, making it worthwhile for MC to pour cash in to promote the COE. This is really only likely at a point where the COE is fully operational and perhaps looking to expand.

But how long will MC be prepared to wait? That is the question, particularly with the hiring of his new "advisor", how much damage is going to be wrought to the home CCM fanbase in the meantime? I think we all agree that something needs to happen with funding of CCMFC to generate a decent "marquee" situation before the club can again galvanize public attention here on the coast.

 

[nearlyyellow]

.. drive the waterfront developments and have a restaurant, bar and cafe precinct right next to the ground that is an attractor in itself for people to come and make a day of it ..

This sort of worries me. One of the absolutely unique aspects of CCS is the view south, around the scoreboard and through the palm trees to the water and beyond. It's emblematic of our fortress, and the development will (maybe) kill it dead. No longer quite so scenic to look at the row of restaurants, coffee shops, souvenir shops, etc. and just the sky above. But, yes, COE would be sucking up a lot of cash but whether that cash would have been used for CCMFC purposes remains unknown.

 

[dibo]

Looks relatively low-rise: http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...sford-waterfront/story-fngr8h0p-1226976459559

 

[rbakersmith]

On a somewhat related note, Wyong Council is pushing ahead with its Regional Sporting Complex up the road from the COE with a design tender awarded a couple of weeks ago.

With events being hosted at that complex it makes the business case for the hotel and licensed club a lot stronger.