RD 3: City vs Mariners

[Bladesman]

What concerns me a bit is the huge hole in midfield when we are attacking and lose the ball. I think that needs a bit of attention.

It certainly does but I think as we learn the system that will ease. The system we are playing involves players being very aware of what others in the team are doing and adjusting accordingly in the defensive structure even when attacking. You can see that this is not as natural as it should be at the minute. In particular Fitzy looks to be struggling with this side of the game but been great going forward, Fab is starting to look at lot better at it and the defence are still adjusting and get caught out.

I actually think Liam Rose along side Caceras would ease this a fair bit with perhaps Fitzy coming off the bench at the 60 minute mark.

 

[dibo]

What concerns me a bit is the huge hole in midfield when we are attacking and lose the ball. I think that needs a bit of attention.

I think FFC was right earlier when he suggested going back to 2 DMs and a block 4-4-2 in defence might be the go.

I'm a little torn on this, because the crazy press *is* winning the ball back quite a lot and creating chances, but when it doesn't work we're leaving ourselves facing players in motion with a numerical advantage.

And who do you play? I don't think Caceres is a DM. But equally I'd hate to drop him for Liam Rose.

 

[MagpieMariner]

Maybe it's because I'm watching on TV and therefore don't see the whole picture, but I thought Caceres went missing quite a few times the last couple of games. If my observation is accurate, we really need him to be involved the whole 90. Mooy seemed to be everywhere & everywhen yesterday, we need Cac to do the same.

 

[nebakke]

I agree with this however the combination with Roy has yet to evolve. A couple of times yesterday I thought that Roy was overlooked by Fab or he delayed his cross too long and was marked by the time it came.

Yeah, not just from Fab either - I'm thinking/hoping that it's just a habit thing but, Roy was clear and on his own, when Caceres took that one shot - he ran straight past Roy to have a frustrated go himself... If he's flicked the ball to Roy I'm certain there'd have been a goal in it.

 

[nebakke]

Maybe it's because I'm watching on TV and therefore don't see the whole picture, but I thought Caceres went missing quite a few times the last couple of games. If my observation is accurate, we really need him to be involved the whole 90. Mooy seemed to be everywhere & everywhen yesterday, we need Cac to do the same.

Hmm, I think the style is quite different though... They relied pretty bl**dy heavily on Mooy... Part of the frustration of having taken that loss, is that we really should have been able to shut them down fairly easily... Shut down Mooy and at least to of their goals don't happen.

Part of that though, is about straight 1:1 ability - that's where the youth of our defence is costing us a bit... I think they were circumvented too easily yesterday.
Once that's said, I also don't think Bosnar is the answer... The way we're playing, I don't think he's fast enough to keep up... We seem to generally dominate in the second half, yet still ship stupid goals...

Funnily enough, my impression is that the boys are more than just a little more fit than most of the other teams that we've played... I think that there's just a limit to how many balls a relatively inexperienced backline can keep deflecting... Eventually some of them go in.
There's still a whole lot to like about watching us play I think - the fact that we're even hitting the target is a good start... But if we're only going to use one outright CB, I think we need someone with a lot more experience...
After yesterday, my eyes are also slowly opening to what has been said here about Micky Neill - there were some outright stupid slips on his side.

I do have to say as well, though, that it felt like it took them longer to gel yesterday... The first 20 was full of those stupid little mistakes, where a pass just doesn't quite have enough power... Or has too much power or where the player is somewhere different to where the passer expected etc... I was looking for that in the first couple of games, because it was one of the things that REALLY frustrated me last season, and it didn't really seem to be happening there, so it seems to be new... Let's hope it's not persistent.

 

[midfielder]

I think 433 especially with two AMs needs players we don't have.

Maybe 3 5 2 would work better.

But maybe to early to make a call.

 

[dibo]

3-5-2? What problem does that solve?

 

[FFC Mariner]

Agree, its our fullbacks (well one anyway) being caught far too high up the pitch. 5-3-2 makes that worse

I think there are 2 obvious problems:

1) We have taken more shots than any other side but have the lowest % on target. I'm trying to recall a clear cut chance we have provided for Roy TBH. I think he is a dud but until we see him butchering chances, how can you tell?

2) We have a full back who is floundering (Neill) I think 50% of our goals have come down his side.

Whether that is him or his combo with Austin on that side, you can bet Arnie will throw everything at our left. Monty comes across, CB has to step up to cover monty and there you go. Goal conceded.

rinse and repeat.

 

[JoyfulPenguin]

Agree, its our fullbacks (well one anyway) being caught far too high up the pitch. 5-3-2 makes that worse

I think there are 2 obvious problems:

1) We have taken more shots than any other side but have the lowest % on target. I'm trying to recall a clear cut chance we have provided for Roy TBH. I think he is a dud but until we see him butchering chances, how can you tell?

2) We have a full back who is floundering (Neill) I think 50% of our goals have come down his side.

Whether that is him or his combo with Austin on that side, you can bet Arnie will throw everything at our left. Monty comes across, CB has to step up to cover monty and there you go. Goal conceded.

rinse and repeat.

Simple solution is surely just to bring in Josh Rose then or give Jamba a chance?

 

[Forum Phoenix]

There's way too much space for GA to exploit. Sydney will be much better marshalled than any side we've faced and it could be an absolute pasting - Smeltz, Brosque and co could be devastating in that kind of space. Cop a flogging and the "entertainment model" will be put under a lot of media and fan pressure, and I strongly suspect there is nothing more Arnie would like would than to orchestrate this to validate his buddy's negative dire football and stick it to the club.

Rose to come in at LB, Roux has had much better games than the past fortnight, so I'd keep him at RB for now - even though I fear he needs some leadership beside or behind him. I'd consider Posco into CB as he's more defensively sound than McGing or Ascroft for now but do I respect Walmsleys approach of faith and giving them time to err and grow philosophy - so will try and be patient too... but if so maybe we really should pair Monty with Fitz or L Rose at the base to screen and play a 4231 for the first 65, then run over the top of them in the last 25 with our currently wildly entertaining if somewhat defensively dubious... 217. (The 1 being Monty)

*edit* Should add very happy to be proven wrong though, if say we continue to play 217, take our opportunities and beat the smurfs 12 - 8 or so.

 

[soccer mad]

There's no way city were a 3 goal better team yesterday we made it easy for them .It's quite confusing watching yesterday I'm all for attack but we were so nieve in defence at times they caught us with 3v2 on the break ,we need to get the transition right because when we lost posession up high it was a long chase back .I certainly don't want to go back to the old days but there's got to be a way to defend without compromising our attack. Maybe more time we'll wait and see .Our game though made the one after pretty dour

 

[dibo]

Agree, its our fullbacks (well one anyway) being caught far too high up the pitch. 5-3-2 makes that worse

I think there are 2 obvious problems:

1) We have taken more shots than any other side but have the lowest % on target. I'm trying to recall a clear cut chance we have provided for Roy TBH. I think he is a dud but until we see him butchering chances, how can you tell?

2) We have a full back who is floundering (Neill) I think 50% of our goals have come down his side.

Whether that is him or his combo with Austin on that side, you can bet Arnie will throw everything at our left. Monty comes across, CB has to step up to cover monty and there you go. Goal conceded.

rinse and repeat.

Well, a 3-5-2 really means you're playing 3 CBs, and then we're really stuck with a difficult choice for wide options, whether we play wingers or wing-backs. I wouldn't want to put Ferreira and Austin in the position of having to get deep all the time.

I just don't think it suits us at all.

I mean in about this first 9 weeks though; experiment here, work out where we can extract positive changes.

Neill's having a rough patch, but I think he's got potential. Maybe swap him out for Rose the Elder. Then on the other side, TBH I'd like to see Poscoliero for Roux just to see what happens! He's handy getting forward but he's a better defender than Roux. Then we'd have two reasonably attack-minded players swapping in but ATM both are more capable defenders than what they'd be replacing. I'm fine with McGing and Ascroft - see how we get on with them in a more defensively minded unit. Defend as a team.

In the interests of making one change at a time I'd probably leave it at that for the moment; leave the 4-3-3 in defence to see if we can iron out the kinks. If we're not getting any improvement then change another thing.

But we can't get too excited (positively or negatively) about results, it's the process we want to see. We want them to play well. We might jag a result here or cop a result there no matter how we play, but if we play well and to a good process and pattern then the good results will outweigh the bad.

 

[pjennings]

What concerns me a bit is the huge hole in midfield when we are attacking and lose the ball. I think that needs a bit of attention.

It concerns me as well. I know Tony wants to play 4-1-2-3 but I would much rather see 4-2-1-3 or 4-2-3-1

Even with the same personnel that would be more solid and protect our young CBs.

The middle 3 could set up as

Caeceres-----Monty

--------Fitz

with Liam able to cover Monty or Caceres and Kalik to cover for Fitzy.

That said - I would be happy for either of the screeners to push forward if the opportunity is there.

 

[Wombat]

I think 442 makes more sense than 433 or 4123.

 

[FFC Mariner]

If we wants 4231 I reckon something like

Izzo
J Rose McGing Posco Roux

Monty Cas (or L Rose)

Fitzy Roy Fabio

Heffernan 2.0

(Roy deep lying behind a target man)

Can still attack like mad but bit more cover. Fitzy adds his workrate on the left

 

[Big Al]

Unfortunately I think FFC is right about Roy. He looks good on the ball, works very hard, makes some good runs (though to no gain) ...in short I like him. But most of our service is coming via crosses from Austin and Fab... and he doesn't have the height or leap to get much joy against most HAL CB's this way so it's a serious issue for TW to solve.

If he's not already, he needs to focus on two or three very specific runs for Roy, where Fab and Austin are looking to put the balls early into very specific areas or cut them back to precise positions. At the moment it all seems purely invention and adhoc and we are not getting the joy that so many balls into the box should be bringing. Ironically with this service Matty Simon may have been have a field day... But Roy has a couple yards of pace on him and much better touch. However we need to work him into the game, or otherwise we might have to put two upfront and Fitz makes way in the middle. Which would be a shame when they were making clear signs of progress this week.

On the right fab looks for Roux to link up with and has some nice short passes into the top of the box. Worked really well against Perth. If he doesn't shoot him self it's a very late cross after trying to beat the defender or link with Roux. No interest in Roy at all.

Fitzy seems the only one at the top of the box and pretty exclusively tries a shot from outside the box. We don't go central often. No interest in Roy at all.

On the left Austin sends in some wicked crosses but they seem to fly over or past Roy. Occasionally they try to link up but not really working. Austin sometimes finds Fitzy who cuts back in for his long shot. Doesn't link up at all with Neill like Fab and Roux do.

Attack shits all over Moss era but still a bit headless chook.

Unlucky Roy caught out on the one two as the disallowed goal was probably our best looking attack over the three games.

 

[Wombat]

Headless chook sums it up nicely.

Fitzy can't find feet and nor can Caceras.

Our crossing from the flanks is poor, but Storm didn't support fab very well this weekend (not sure where he was, coz he sure wasn't defending).

The only mid doing his job in both defence AND attack is Monty.

 

[Wombat]

Also I'm a big fan of TW but his subs were poor this weekend.

 

[Wombat]

Don't be scared of 442 due to euro snobs. It works.
France smashed Brazil in a World Cup final playing 442.
In EPL City just stopped playing it but were top of the league in that formation.
The key is Leicester, Palace, West Brom and Watford play 442 and all are placed well above where they should be in the EPL.
It's hard to break down and allows you to transition well from attack to defence.

When you play a clearly better side then you switch to Moss style 4141 and play for the draw or hopeful 1.0 win on the counter.

 

[Forum Phoenix]

If we wants 4231 I reckon something like

Izzo
J Rose McGing Posco Roux

Monty Cas (or L Rose)

Fitzy Roy Fabio

Heffernan 2.0

(Roy deep lying behind a target man)

Can still attack like mad but bit more cover. Fitzy adds his workrate on the left

I think Austin deserves to keep his spot more than anyone bar Monty and Fab though...