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Rd 11 Drive Bys V Mariners

Roy Law

Well-Known Member
One Dimensional Mariners

The better team won on the day; there can be no argument with that. The reality of the cataclysmic loss of personnel from the Championship winning team is finally hitting home. While the Wanderers enjoy their turn to ride the wave of success the Mariners can now concentrate on saving pride and making the finals.
This was a much better display by the Mariners; some of the attacking football was very good and if momentum was with them, and not WSW, they might have taken something from the game. Wanderers’ first goal told the tale: their first meaningful shot on target just as the Mariners were getting into their stride. Flores, Sterjovski and McGlinchey were all up for this game and playing well but Juric’s spectacular but very fortunate goal was a real blow. Twice the Wanderers got the benefit of the bounce from deflections; Juric’s impressive volley was all class but on another day the ball would not have reached him.
The Mariners responded superbly and could have scored after smart play from Sterjovski set up Flores but Spiranovic’s desperate block saved the equaliser. Flores could only smile in disbelief. It was Sterjovski’s last contribution; he limped off injured to be replaced by Fitzgerald. It was a real pity as he had been playing well.
The second goal was the kind of goal the Mariners would score last season and the kind of goal they would not have conceded: a sharp break, aided by referee Delovski’s play on call, clinically executed and ruthlessly finished off. Rose was caught hopelessly out of position allowing Ono all the time to measure the cross: the kind of cross last year that heads up positional play would have blocked. But we lost our best heads up defender when Patrick retired.
The second half was an anti-climax: Wanderers, with the best defence in the competition, content to hold on to what they had; the Mariners huffing and puffing but rarely looking like breaking any walls down.
Flores, who had not been asked to continue with his drover’s dog endless running and consequently was playing quite well, was taken off at the sixty minute mark; it was a strange decision. Are we paying this guy by the hour, did the money run out in the meter? Duke, thankfully, not Mat Simon, came on in his favoured position and immediately unlocked the defence to bring a save from Covic. It was a good piece of skill and on another day might have brought reward but good fortune favours the team in the ascendancy and that is not the Mariners.
Labinot Haliti should have made it 3-0, which would have emphasised the Wanderers superiority but thankfully he is Labinot Haliti and is an erratic finisher.
The result sheets home the difference between a side that had so many unwanted departures from their great Championship winning side and one whose only departures were those it wanted to leave. The Mariners are a much weaker side; the Wanderers are stronger. It underlined the difference between being a club that has to sell to survive and a club that has its finances underpinned by Football Federation Australia.
The A League continues apace; hungry ambitious teams are taking advantage of the current Mariners. They have sussed out the weaknesses and have ruthlessly exploited them. The Mariners one-dimensional play has been outclassed by the modern pressing game of Brisbane, Victory and Adelaide, and the Wanderers are simply a class above. It is time for change.
Moss talks of being in transition and so must now make hard decisions. Hutchinson, McBreen and Simon are yesterday’s men; Montgomery is struggling; Seip is not good enough. Young Australians such as Anderson and Griffiths should be given a chance to establish themselves and we will never know if Caceres is the real deal unless he is given a fair run in the side.
For my money 4-2-3-1 has run its course and 4-1-4-1 should be the change: more on the later.
In a spirited but outclassed team Michael McGlinchey is my MoM, underlining the seriousness of our losing him to Japan with Rose giving strong support.
 

Roy Law

Well-Known Member
Time for Change

When we reached the Grand Final against Brisbane we were playing a very effective 4-4-2 with a midfield diamond. It was good enough to get us to seconds away from glory even though we were playing at our opponents’ stadium. Despite the success of the system Arnie, and he included Mossy in the decision, changed to 4-2-3-1, and won a Premiership and a Championship.
We have lost so many players from the Championship side that I can understand a reluctance for more change, a natural reliance on what has worked for us in the past, and an inability to face up to the fact that some players are no longer up to it. Our current 4-2-3-1 has run out of gas; the 2 in the system just isn’t working and is why we lack transition going forward and defending. We need to change.
Hutchinson must go: he provides no cover defensively and nothing going forward. Hutch is a passenger in the system; we need someone more pro active more dynamic: I would replace him with Trent Sainsbury. Sainsbury is better on the ball, is much quicker, is a great defender and loves to push forward with the ball at his feet and has an eye for the long pass. When the full backs bomb forward he could sit deep as Hutch does now, but do it better; I think he would relish the role and the team would be better for it.
The recruitment of Seip can only be seen as a failure, showing that even Arnie didn’t always get it right. As an import he is a lightweight and it is utterly wrong that he should be denying young Australians a position in the team. His three year contract (what the...!) should be torn up by mutual consent. I would have Anderson and Griffiths as the two centre backs.
With Bernie Ibini coming back it means Duke can now play in his best position – upfront. Duke can only benefit from having his mate alongside him; they have a great mutual understanding. Ibini and Fitzgerald would be on the wings with Flores and Caceres combining in centre midfield; Caceres has to be given the chance to establish himself especially as the older hands are not getting the job done.
The trusted veterans such as Hutchinson, Montgomery, McBreen, and Simon, should step out of the spotlight and give the youngsters a chance.
4-1-4-1 is my line up:
Reddy
Roux Anderson Griffiths Rose
Sainsbury
Ibini Flores Caceres Fitzgerald
Duke​
 

Forum Phoenix

Well-Known Member
I like it Roy.

We all know it won't happen.

But I like it.


That said, I still think Monty can do a great job for us.
 

Forum Phoenix

Well-Known Member
This - from a 442 Roar fan...


"For mine, this really showed what CCM have lost by losing Arnie.

Did Moss and Holger have a face/off?

Old, slow, uninspiring first XI selected, poor tactics with no attack plan after falling behind, terrible unimaginative substitutions... all around horrible showing by the Mariners.

After falling behind there was no pressing and they were happy to sit back and let WSW chill with the ball... at least Simon showed some bite when he came on. Taking off Flores for the invisible McBreen was ridiculous. Reddy surely gets dropped now?

CCM wont make the finals at this rate. And it makes me angry to see BRFCs old rival playing so poorly. Pick your shit up."

:(
 

sydmariner

Well-Known Member
This - from a 442 Roar fan...


"For mine, this really showed what CCM have lost by losing Arnie.

Did Moss and Holger have a face/off?

Old, slow, uninspiring first XI selected, poor tactics with no attack plan after falling behind, terrible unimaginative substitutions... all around horrible showing by the Mariners.

After falling behind there was no pressing and they were happy to sit back and let WSW chill with the ball... at least Simon showed some bite when he came on. Taking off Flores for the invisible McBreen was ridiculous. Reddy surely gets dropped now?

CCM wont make the finals at this rate. And it makes me angry to see BRFCs old rival playing so poorly. Pick your shit up."

:(
well at least someone agrees with me about dropping reddy:goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost:
 

Wombat

Well-Known Member
Time for Change

When we reached the Grand Final against Brisbane we were playing a very effective 4-4-2 with a midfield diamond. It was good enough to get us to seconds away from glory even though we were playing at our opponents’ stadium. Despite the success of the system Arnie, and he included Mossy in the decision, changed to 4-2-3-1, and won a Premiership and a Championship.
We have lost so many players from the Championship side that I can understand a reluctance for more change, a natural reliance on what has worked for us in the past, and an inability to face up to the fact that some players are no longer up to it. Our current 4-2-3-1 has run out of gas; the 2 in the system just isn’t working and is why we lack transition going forward and defending. We need to change.
Hutchinson must go: he provides no cover defensively and nothing going forward. Hutch is a passenger in the system; we need someone more pro active more dynamic: I would replace him with Trent Sainsbury. Sainsbury is better on the ball, is much quicker, is a great defender and loves to push forward with the ball at his feet and has an eye for the long pass. When the full backs bomb forward he could sit deep as Hutch does now, but do it better; I think he would relish the role and the team would be better for it.
The recruitment of Seip can only be seen as a failure, showing that even Arnie didn’t always get it right. As an import he is a lightweight and it is utterly wrong that he should be denying young Australians a position in the team. His three year contract (what the...!) should be torn up by mutual consent. I would have Anderson and Griffiths as the two centre backs.
With Bernie Ibini coming back it means Duke can now play in his best position – upfront. Duke can only benefit from having his mate alongside him; they have a great mutual understanding. Ibini and Fitzgerald would be on the wings with Flores and Caceres combining in centre midfield; Caceres has to be given the chance to establish himself especially as the older hands are not getting the job done.
The trusted veterans such as Hutchinson, Montgomery, McBreen, and Simon, should step out of the spotlight and give the youngsters a chance.
4-1-4-1 is my line up:
Reddy
Roux Anderson Griffiths Rose
Sainsbury
Ibini Flores Caceres Fitzgerald
Duke​

Great to hear your words Roy. Sadly most of us a too afraid to tell it how it really is.
I actually thought that Tesco would make a good defensive middy watching the Drive By game. He would certainly be a far better proposition than Hutcho.
I'm still unsure on Caceres but maybe he could be the answer or maybe Monty can do the job if given free reign but we must get rid of the two non ball playing DMs as it is killing us and effectively it's like playing with 10 men.
It is also a bit scary having such inexperience in central defence with Ando and Griff2 paired.
I still think Matty Simon has a lot to offer once he regains his confidence.

My team would be..

Reddy
Roux tesco griff rose
Ibini Monty. Fitzgerald
Flores
Macca. Duke
 

sydmariner

Well-Known Member
Great to hear your words Roy. Sadly most of us a too afraid to tell it how it really is.
I actually thought that Tesco would make a good defensive middy watching the Drive By game. He would certainly be a far better proposition than Hutcho.
I'm still unsure on Caceres but maybe he could be the answer or maybe Monty can do the job if given free reign but we must get rid of the two non ball playing DMs as it is killing us and effectively it's like playing with 10 men.
It is also a bit scary having such inexperience in central defence with Ando and Griff2 paired.
I still think Matty Simon has a lot to offer once he regains his confidence.

My team would be..

Reddy
Roux tesco griff rose
Ibini Monty. Fitzgerald
Flores
Macca. Duke
:postcount:
 

Atomic

Well-Known Member
well at least someone agrees with me about dropping reddy:goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost:

Enough with the f**king emoticons FFS. I'm sick of it. Either contribute to the discussion or shut up. If it's a good post, then explain why. If' it's a red card then elaborate on your point of view. If you like what a fellow forumite has written then hit the "Like" hyperlink... and just leave it at that. You're doing my head in.
 

VicMariner

Well-Known Member
Atomic said:
Enough with the f**king emoticons FFS. I'm sick of it. Either contribute to the discussion or shut up. If it's a good post, then explain why. If' it's a red card then elaborate on your point of view. If you like what a fellow forumite has written then hit the "Like" hyperlink... and just leave it at that. You're doing my head in.
:goodpost:




*runs away*
 

bikinigirl

Well-Known Member
This - from a 442 Roar fan...


"For mine, this really showed what CCM have lost by losing Arnie.

Did Moss and Holger have a face/off?

Old, slow, uninspiring first XI selected, poor tactics with no attack plan after falling behind, terrible unimaginative substitutions... all around horrible showing by the Mariners.

After falling behind there was no pressing and they were happy to sit back and let WSW chill with the ball... at least Simon showed some bite when he came on. Taking off Flores for the invisible McBreen was ridiculous. Reddy surely gets dropped now?

CCM wont make the finals at this rate. And it makes me angry to see BRFCs old rival playing so poorly. Pick your shit up."

:(

. i had actually intended to comment on the holger thing when i was typing in another thread (about the tough gig mossy has at the moment) ... but then lost my train of thought :oops:

. it is the essence of what roy has so astutely stated above ... but it comes down to:
  • the fact that mossy is new in the job
  • the team was 'under-performing' when he took over
  • the trusted veterans are seen as the most likely to deliver on his instructions (whether that be a change or maintaining the 'arnie way' or some combination of the two)
. the words i was thinking of using were: 'mossy might need to make some dramatic decisions so that he doesn't fall into a holger-style mindset' ... tinkering is proving to not be enough

. another advantage of roy's suggested line up is that you have a plethora of experience to come on and take control of whatever situation the youngens find themselves in
 

bikinigirl

Well-Known Member
4-1-4-1 is my line up:
Reddy
Roux Anderson Griffiths Rose
Sainsbury
Ibini Flores Caceres Fitzgerald
Duke​

. i remember posting years ago (when we had wilko and big pat as CBs) that sains may be a good option as a DM. along with wilko he is one of our cleanest ever tacklers ... is confident with the ball and plays the ball as well as maty ryan (i think two of our better passers of the ball - which just compounds the loss)

. i don't know how many people would be brave enough to actually pull sains from the CB position ... but we are almost at 'drastic measures' time ... it has potential and would certainly mess with the heads of our opposition

. roy how do you see your midfield (front four) funtioning? because you could really take your line up and still play the 4-2-3-1 line-up we have become accustomed to with sains playing the hutch role and cas playing in place of monty. duke is playing his natural role ably supported by his former youth mates in bernie and fitzy (mr p and rosey to continue over-lapping)

. critically flores is surrounded by youthful exuberance ... orchestrate the music and make them dance!
 

Ancient Mariner

Well-Known Member
I like the idea of giving Sainsbury a run as DM, however, even though I am sure he has the ability, I wonder whether he can make the move in the middle of a season.

He is a specialist centre half and probably one of the best future prospects in that position in Australia. He has been given the occassional run at fullback and although he has all the skills has not been nearly so successful in that position.

The position you are asking him to play as defensive mid in a 4141 formation requires a totally different skillset, basically being a distributor and getting the team moving down the best channel from the back. I am sure he could do it but I am equally sure that he would need a full preseason to play into the position, especially with the team playing a new formation.

As to the 4141 formation, I remember what it was like when we first tried 4231. It was pretty ordinary each time until Arnie had a full pre season to perfect it.

Big move for a new coach and probably a bit too soon for such a drastic measure especially as we are still in with a chance.
 

pjennings

Well-Known Member
.

. critically flores is surrounded by youthful exuberance ... orchestrate the music and make them dance!

I agree that it is time to think it is time for a few changes. Hutch seems to be a bit ponderous at the moment. If he has to stay on the field as captain (debatable) then maybe he can move to LM with WeeMac then Bernie moving to RM. Caceres to start next to Monty with a license to move forward.

The other one that seems ponderous is Flores. The team seems to be waiting on him to do something and he seems to be waiting on them to make a run. Duke seems to work with him best but they are rarely on the field together.

In spite of our poor start to the season we are still in a reasonable position to make a decent run if we can find another gear. A win on NYE will probably take us to 4th and possibly 3rd - six points in front of 7th.
 

bikinigirl

Well-Known Member
I agree that it is time to think it is time for a few changes. Hutch seems to be a bit ponderous at the moment. If he has to stay on the field as captain (debatable) then maybe he can move to LM with WeeMac then Bernie moving to RM. Caceres to start next to Monty with a license to move forward.

The other one that seems ponderous is Flores. The team seems to be waiting on him to do something and he seems to be waiting on them to make a run. Duke seems to work with him best but they are rarely on the field together.

In spite of our poor start to the season we are still in a reasonable position to make a decent run if we can find another gear. A win on NYE will probably take us to 4th and possibly 3rd - six points in front of 7th.

. yeah it's not quite panic stations ... but for a team well-versed in running up 50+ points every season you start to wonder ... and you don't want to wait until next year to start making changes. we need continual improvement

. if you can ignore the actual quality of passing for a moment ... i think that when flores gets the ball he is constantly under pressure (fair enough, to be expected, player of his quality, blah, blah, blah) - the issue is his options ... which are typically limited

. i am far from an expert, but i think he needs close (and immediate) support ... he is not getting that from two deep-lying DMs, two wide-playing midfielders (we practically need to avoid considering mikey now) and two over-lapping backs. he is left with trying to hold up the ball for too long with his back to goal ... waiting for support or looking for the miracle ball. he is capable of the miracle ball but that can't be relied upon

. fitzy (and probably bernie) seem the guys most likely to provide the required interplay in an attacking sense ... with dukie leading the line. but what of our defence? are our DMs laying deep because they feel they need to provide defensive support ... are our backs (and wide midfielders) lazy because of this additional support?
 

Ancient Mariner

Well-Known Member
I agree that it is time to think it is time for a few changes. Hutch seems to be a bit ponderous at the moment. If he has to stay on the field as captain (debatable) then maybe he can move to LM with WeeMac then Bernie moving to RM. Caceres to start next to Monty with a license to move forward.

Good move, Hutch is not a defender. I think there was more than one reason why he finished up in that position. It is a good position for the captain to organise from, he was willing and has the ability to fit in anywhere (even striker under Lawrie) and Arnie had no one else when he moved to this formation.

He has the ability to score with either foot (who else remembers his two at the SFC?) and is much better suited in the front third.

Arguments against: we have plenty of options for AMs and wingers, we have only Caceras to fill the vacant DM role, he may not be up to it anymore.

Arguments for: it is time for Caceras to step up and/or we need to find another DM, Hutch and Monty are old, Hutch is a winger by trade, the plenty of options we have in the front third are not gelling nor finding the back of the net.
 

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