R20 City v CCM

[Luca Brasi]

So I'll be 'Tony in' until he has a pre season and a properly balanced team and dressing room of his own. After that, if the first 6 games look anything like the present. Then he should be booted without hesitation and certainty.

It's not TW's fault, he knew the finances weren't there and has done his best with the weakest squad the HAL has ever seen.

Have to agree with this. It would have thought that by now it was accepted that the club was in a black hole financially after years of mismanagement and coaching excesses, this limited the budget for players in 15/16 and TW was the only coach of note who was willing to work under those restrictions. Undermining from a number of senior players led to a chaotic dressing room early in the season and resulted in TW having to sign another 5 players a short notice. Since his appointment he has had to sign 12 players (not including Garcia) - over half the squad - this is a huge turnover/clean out and some more may still be required before 16/17. And they haven't been that bad under the circumstances (compared to the outcomes of Moss) - Heff was a fail; Stella & Izzo underwhelming; jury still out/work in progress for Fletcher, McDonald, Uskok, Bray, Buhagier; McGing, Ascroft, O'Donovan, Austin were all good pick ups IMO.

Rudan, Mulvey, Mourinho? Wouldn't have mattered a cracker with this squad. There were some embarrassing statements re entertainment v results, moneyball, etc; a handful of poor selections and a lack of defensive structure early on. But the reality is we have finished matches with 10 players on 6 occasions, we dont have the necessary ball players in the midfield to hold possession and set up goals, which leads to extreme pressure on a young defence which cracks or gives away set piece opportunities.

This year is a basket case but a necessary enema. Lets start talking up next season. After a better 15/16 financially and with the prospect of a fee for Kalik (does Sainsbury have a sell on clause?); releasing Heffernan and Stella; selling Izzo (please) and the possibility of being able to move on J Rose and Trifiro, this would open up cap space along with the carry over from this season to secure those quality 4 - 5 signings. Perhaps even a real marquee if the Garcia experiment proves a success (perhaps this is more just wishful thinking).

 

[tim...]

This, so much this. Well said Luca.

The fact we even have a club to be angry, sad, elated, happy or meh over - is key to me. I'd rather be suffering the smack of a wooden spoon than be consigned to the history books like the Knights, Fury, GCU et al.

 

[Rowdy]

A 'necessary enema'

Nice analogy.

Thank God though the equipment for it wasn't included in my membership package.

 

[localpom]

To put things into perspective by my reckoning we have about 15 players who have either made their A league debut or first A league start this season. Bray, Izzo (not sure if he got a game for Adelaide?), Howard Belle, Ascroft, McGing, Berry, Adelson, Buhagiar, Austin, Fletcher, Heffernan, Bingham, Liam Rose/Kalik( not sure if they started a game last year?), Uskok, Garcia, O'Donovan......and players like Stella, MacDonald etc have had limited opportunities and a spell in State league. This was always going to be a transition year.

 

[Wombat]

Im copping shit off the 3 Mexicans im working with this week.....and they are not even Football people.

 

[Wombat]

I try not to let these get to me but AAARRRRHHHHHHGGGHGHGHGHHHHHLLLLHHH! FFS Wombat, NO! Not Mike Mulvey, not f***ing Miron Bleiberg, Mark Rudan, John Kosmina or Frank Farina either...
Walmsley or someone completely out of here, but I stand by my earlier comments, I don't think any coach could do markedly better under the current conditions.
If Walmsley has lost the dressing room, that's another matter, we might have to let him go if he can't hold on to a group of kids like that, but until I see actual proof of that I think it'd be a mistake to get rid of TW. Either way, I don't want to see any of the "Fabulous 5" as our coach.

Mulvey would be fantastic. Not sure that he would accept the poisoned chalice.
I think Tony might flourish next year but only if the club brings in a quality defensive coach and a goalkeeping coach as well.

 

[Capn Gus Bloodbeard]

I think the frustrating with TW is more coming from the fact that while nobody expected to do well this season, it's that there hasn't been any sign of improvement for quite a long time. It's the feeling that 'yeah, our players are inexperienced, but is there growth?'
Perhaps that is just confidence that's affecting that - and with that low confidence, our strikers are less willing to back themselves and nobody is feeling up to a moment of brilliance. Effects of low confidence are certainly on display on the pitch. IF that's all it is then a couple of good recruits over the break should be all we need. But I think all we have to believe that's the case is hope more than anything. The fact that Izzo keeps starting is probably one thing that is causing a lot of people to feel like nothing is changing or improving.

It's a shame that we can no longer annoy the jets by telling them they have a spoon and we don't, but we still have a damn fine history for a small club.

Im copping shit off the 3 Mexicans im working with this week.....and they are not even Football people.

Nobody in my workplace follows it, thank god. Well, one does but he's from Adelaide, so he's happy.

 

[Atomic]

Im copping shit off the 3 Mexicans im working with this week.....and they are not even Football people.

I've been copping shit off a guy at work... and he's a Coastie. He's a NRL fan.

 

[tim...]

Im copping shit off the 3 Mexicans im working with this week.....and they are not even Football people.

Walked back into my Melbourne apartment last night after the game, some dope plastic fan on a balcony above doing a Melbourne City chant as I walked home. Like seriously? I went to the game despite my team being stone motherless last and you're on your balcony 10km from the ground and stay home? #plastics

 

[Rowdy]

Izzo (not sure if he got a game for Adelaide?),

Izzo made just 6 appearances in 4 years whilst at Adelade, which was one of the main concerns I had personally when we signed him, but it wasn't 'freaking-me out' as he was signed as a Reserve GK.

When Reddy was ousted, that all changed and the above stat was frightening to me as he then became our No.1 GK.

Couple that with Tom HB also being promoted to Izzo's Reserve, with a big fat -zero games in the HAL.

Having 2 GK's with only 6 games of HAL between them - definitely 'freaked-me out'

 

[Capn Gus Bloodbeard]

On a positive note, when we had that goal up we weren't looking too bad....it's a classic symptom of the team on the bottom; something good happens and we lift tenfold, moment anything goes against us heads will drop.

 

[tim...]

I'm 90% sure Kalik and Rose both got a start late last season.

 

[Rowdy]

Interesting note mentioned by Slater in the pre -game,

"Look the problems are quite easy, it's not rocket science ...... in all the indicators they're either 9th or 10th - in all those stats.

The telling stat is 45 goals (now 49) conceded after only 19 (20) games & is the highest in Hyundai A-League history! So therein lies a lot of problems"

Even more interestingly, Melb. City are next in line conceding 35(now 36) goals.

Couple this with another A-League record broken, 22 (now 23) successive games without a clean sheet. Record was prev. held by astonishingly .... Melb.Victory.

On your way to winning the clubs first ever wooden spoon & setting all the wrong records mentioned above should be cause enough for TW & MC to be acting NOW to find an experienced CB and re-evaluating whether the GK's we've got on the books are also up to the task for next season.

So on average were conceding 2.5 goals a game so far.

Taking into account our current form, the way our defense is disintegrating & how rapidly its occuring, losing our remaining games with 3 or more goals scored against us per game is by no means an exaggeration of what could occur.

With still another 7 games to go, we could easily ship another 20 goals before the seasons done.

Possibly 70 (or more) goals conceded in a single season. !!! WOW

Now that'd be one hell'uva shameful record to have in our history.

 

[FFC Mariner]

In terms of players who have improved? In my view

Ascroft McGing and Austin

Players who appear to have regressed ?

Monty and Rose (Monty is trying to do too much imho)

Our overall level of organisation is still at preseason level sadly.

Did everyone subconsciously believe the "results don't matter" message?

 

[tim...]

I think the big problem is communication from the keeper and the back four. Izzo isn't experienced enough to command or engender respect and the four in front of him, apart from Rose, are still green

 

[nebakke]

Bit confused about the 'completely out of here' bit ???

Where exactly is here & where will they (a new coach) come from ???

Here, Australia ?
Are you suggesting a Foreign Coach ???

or maybe someone local/Aust. who's yet to coach in the HAL, unlike most of those you mentioned ???

Keen to hear your suggestions.

Sorry - reworded half the post, obviously didn't edit it well.
Point was that I don't see any other coach making much of a difference under the current circumstances.

I don't have a better suggestion than to stay with Walmsley... We always look at the same five coaches... There's a reason for that... Those 5 are always available in some way and - except for Rudan and arguably Miron - have been fired from A-league clubs at least once.
Mulvey has shown some promise, but he's also shown some absolutely horrible stuff... Definitely the best of the bunch at this point, but I don't really think "best of a bad bunch" is what we should be going for.
I think Walmsley's shown some promise too, but he's here now and we know that he's willing to coach for us - which could be more than can be said about any of the other 5 anyway.

 

[Deej]

I am very frustrated at the moment, seeing the club in this position bloody hurts and I'm not only talking about the table.

I'm sorry but TW gets 1 KPI, to entertain, results are not important says MC.............please what a load of shit. How can anyone defend the stats from our past 7 games :

Wins = 1, draw = 1, losses = 5
Goals scored = 11, conceded = 20
Shots for us = 50 (avg. 7.14 per game), shots against = 121 (avg. 17.28 per game)
Possession avg. approx 39% v 61% for the opposition
Passes by us = 2324 (avg. 332 per game), passes for opposition = 3625 (avg. 517 per game)
Every game the opposition has had more shots, more possession, more corners and more passes (that includes the game we won)

It has to come back to our quality of players and coaching, TW has to take the responsibility.

1) we're not entertaining (well not for our own fans) 7 shots per game is NOT what I call entertaining and attacking
2) our passing is a horrible stat, we will never be truly competitive until we sort the middle of the field out
3) we can't keep a hold of the ball, we give the ball away too cheaply

MC needs to understand that we're in a business where results are important, how we compete is important, fans will not continue to spend their money on poor performances (would you keep going back to a restaurant that kept serving shit food?)...........I understand that we're forward planning for a Mariners on the Coast for what we all hope is forever but we can't keep performing on the field the way that we are.

 

[Ancient Mariner]

The biggest problem with our defence is that you cannot put old heads on young shoulders. Centre halves and keepers take years to mature. The odd exception like Ryan are rare.

We definitely need another like Patrick to guide the back four and a safe, steady keeper who can control his box and maybe distribute moderately well.

This would take a lot of pressure off Monty and Rose jr and allow them to control the midfield.

With a good #10 the strikers and wingers we have will score.

Three quality signings, easy.

 

[Forum Phoenix]

"The biggest problem with our defence is that you cannot put old heads on young shoulders. Centre halves and keepers take years to mature."

Was about to write a version of exactly that. Cheers Ancient.

Youngsters don't organise well, read as game as well and are more prone to errors. This describes our defence to a tee.

Positives are that marking, tracking closing down and taking responsibility - while still very much works in progress - are actually improving. (and you'd want to hope so) I understand Wombat's and most peoples frustration with our defence, as I've argued on here before, I think it's warranted and generally accurate. But I also think it's a bit of a presumption to see it as a sign they don't know how to teach basics or they are not doing any work on them.

I've coached athletes to compete at regional, state, and international levels, and when they step up to the next level, a huge portion of what they actually know and what they can do goes right out the window. Some never adjust, most will, but it always takes time.

It's pretty frustrating as a coach to watch athletes fail to do what you already know they can...and makes you look like a goose as a coach too - which is not much fun. And for mine, TW's early talks all about "trying to get the players to believe in themselves" etc spoke very much of this. He was trying to solve the youth puzzle. But sometimes there is just no substitute or short cut for time and experience. You can't coach someone to do something they are not able to do yet. So this is not an indicator of bad coaching. He might still be a poor coach but IMO what we've been seeing this season is exactly what you'd expect from a bunch of young rookies. We all know you can't have two inexperienced CB's and an inexperienced keeper and not expect to ship a shit load of goals.

Slater's right, it's not rocket science - and for us it's about the $$ to buy the necessary experience and quality and a pre season to gel. We have the cheapest youngest squad. That' the truth of it. The coaching?? Good? Bad? Maybe. Maybe not.

Upside is that this season has clearly helped McGing, Ascroft and Posc develop. The other notables are Lliam Rose and I think Austin is probably the player who we will lose next. Bingham and Neil are coming along a bit as well. Now we're also adding Trent and Berry... Heward Belle...

We're stone cold last. But bringing that amount of youth through is pretty amazing really.

They have a vision and they recognise they need experience brought in, so I'll be very surprised if next season equals more of the same.

 

[localpom]

"The biggest problem with our defence is that you cannot put old heads on young shoulders. Centre halves and keepers take years to mature."

Was about to write a version of exactly that. Cheers Ancient.

Youngsters don't organise well, read as game as well and are more prone to errors. This describes our defence to a tee.

Positives are that marking, tracking closing down and taking responsibility - while still very much works in progress - are actually improving. (and you'd want to hope so) I understand Wombat's and most peoples frustration with our defence, as I've argued on here before, I think it's warranted and generally accurate. But I also think it's a bit of a presumption to see it as a sign they don't know how to teach basics or they are not doing any work on them.

I've coached athletes to compete at regional, state, and international levels, and when they step up to the next level, a huge portion of what they actually know and what they can do goes right out the window. Some never adjust, most will, but it always takes time.

It's pretty frustrating as a coach to watch athletes fail to do what you already know they can...and makes you look like a goose as a coach too - which is not much fun. And for mine, TW's early talks all about "trying to get the players to believe in themselves" etc spoke very much of this. He was trying to solve the youth puzzle. But sometimes there is just no substitute or short cut for time and experience. You can't coach someone to do something they are not able to do yet. So this is not an indicator of bad coaching. He might still be a poor coach but IMO what we've been seeing this season is exactly what you'd expect from a bunch of young rookies. We all know you can't have two inexperienced CB's and an inexperienced keeper and not expect to ship a shit load of goals.

Slater's right, it's not rocket science - and for us it's about the $$ to buy the necessary experience and quality and a pre season to gel. We have the cheapest youngest squad. That' the truth of it. The coaching?? Good? Bad? Maybe. Maybe not.

Upside is that this season has clearly helped McGing, Ascroft and Posc develop. The other notables are Lliam Rose and I think Austin is probably the player who we will lose next. Bingham and Neil are coming along a bit as well. Now we're also adding Trent and Berry... Heward Belle...

We're stone cold last. But bringing that amount of youth through is pretty amazing really.

They have a vision and they recognise they need experience brought in, so I'll be very surprised if next season equals more of the same.

Spot on.