R20 City v CCM

[BaysideMariner]

Does anyone know if Patrick Z is still around and after his sacking would he work for CCM in a defensive coach capacity?

 

[FFC Mariner]

I'd be stunned if Austin is with us next season. Haven't there already been stories of Victory having a long hard look?

Genuine pace terrifies defences and he has it.

 

[Deej]

Does anyone know if Patrick Z is still around and after his sacking would he work for CCM in a defensive coach capacity?

I'd be very surprised if Dutchy ever worked for CCM again..............forming 1 hell of a defence for Terrigal All age I hear this year possibly with O'Grady and Hutch just above them in midfield.

 

[Deej]

I'd be stunned if Austin is with us next season. Haven't there already been stories of Victory having a long hard look?

Genuine pace terrifies defences and he has it.

We need him, has a year left but what does that mean at our club? For me, he's been the most exciting player to watch this season, puts in a better shift than Fabio on the other wing IMHO

 

[soccer mad]

It wasn't that long when TW went to the Uk to find us a coach and and desided to back himself in the role .Newcastle were a basket case in the beginning of this year as well so lets compare apples in terms of budget restraints and two teams in similar situations ,now in terms of progress it's obvious who making further inroads in the development of thier game. Some will argue they have older players as well as youth but they have worked to thier strengths and thier coach hasn't pissed of any of the senior players . Even with the loss of Carney. I know which coach I'd want .

 

[FFC Mariner]

Fair point but I think the scum spent up to the cap.

 

[Gratis]

A good point to remember is that we can now spend unused cap into the next season. I know that it doesn't mean we'll actually have more money but if we choose to spend up on some players in the off season then we have some up the sleeve

 

[Gray]

Not happy with the negativity from some fans. Yes, we have had a tough season. Nothing much has gone right. Some is of our own making, but the bottom line is that we have had to make do with a hugely young and inexperienced squad. It's not TW's fault, he knew the finances weren't there and has done his best with the weakest squad the HAL has ever seen. Who else would have taken this on? I say weakest but there are some real diamonds in our squad but there is plainly too many young and inexperienced players who have been asked too much this season.To blame the youngsters is just unfair. It is clear they are all doing their best, if anything they are trying too hard and struggling to compete against superior opposition. The few experienced players we have seem to have been under enormous pressure and need support from a couple more quality experienced players. I'm not enjoying this season much but i'm hopeful for next season, believe in where the club is going and have faith in our young guys. For those that are saying the are going to jump ship, we will not see a season like this for a long time,keep the faith. Add 3 or 4 quality players to this young squad and we will surprise next season.

I agree with everything you've said here but my one genuine concern is after such a disastrous season results wise, can we attract the quality experienced players we will need. Can't see too many Australian players who fit that bill wanting to sign here. I think we would be looking at players other clubs reject, and then you have to ask?????????
Overseas recruiting will need to be excellent ala Zwaanswijk.

 

[Ancient Mariner]

I'd be stunned if Austin is with us next season. Haven't there already been stories of Victory having a long hard look?

Genuine pace terrifies defences and he has it.

Mick has posted on SFCU that he is unwilling at this time to sign a new contract.

I would be unhappy to see him go to another A-League club. Not so much for the loss of him as a player but for the loss of one of what I hoped would be one of the cadre to build a new team around.

If he is after more money and has overseas ambitions, good luck to him.

As a player he has pace to burn and can scare defences, but on the other side of the coin he is one dimensional (kick and chase) and is lacking in decision making at the end of a good run. He also appears a little fragile at this stage in terms of small injuries and stamina to go 90 minutes.

I would like to see if he can learn from Garcia and then make a move to a quality overseas club in the future in a move that would benefit both he and the club.

 

[Rowdy]

Agree, I think he needs at least another 2 years in the A-League whether it be with us or any other HAL club before the rough diamond is polished sufficiently enough for a move/sale back overseas.

That's roughly what Bernie needed & I think Ibini was a much better prospect at this level/ timeframe of respective development as a young player.

 

[gull]

Poor game, but I'm not sure why so many people are surprised or taking it further to heart. It's the same issues. Because we're still a team largely comprised of very inexperienced players that are playing superior and more experienced teams who have been playing without any major disruption all year. It's the same. I know that's frustrating, but we've all known why for months haven't we??

A combination of money ball, losing our senior leadership and rotten apples - and though we tried to get around it, to be clear, it doomed us from the get go, and so now we have to deal with it.

The club has clearly tried, but the only "miracle cure" is four (maybe five) high quality experienced and costly players, and even then it almost certainly requires another pre season.

Stella, Fletcher, mcDonald...even Louis, were never going to turn our season on its head, so I can't point the bone at Tony, because it's beyond improbable that any other coach could win with our current squad either. But there is a lot of great young talent in this side, it's just too early for half of them still, but what option have we had?

When we started this year under TW, we played well, and EVERYONE agreed that we looked like we might be a truly exciting attacking machine. But we had dissent BEFORE we'd kicked a ball in earnest. That dissent translated into an already threadbare squad now drastically lacking depth, experience and leadership. Add a headbutt here, a hamstring there...and it was season over. So now they're blooding even more youth. As they should. But of course it's not fixing anything.

This is the reason I'm not in the TW out camp.

I hate getting carved up by Mooy, Garuccio and Fornaroli or being monstered by Malik, Wilko and Kisnorbo as much as the next fan... but to think TW has the means at hand to alter that right now, while desirable - is simply untrue. Even a 'supercoach' couldn't do it.

So I'll be 'Tony in' until he has a pre season and a properly balanced team and dressing room of his own. After that, if the first 6 games look anything like the present. Then he should be booted without hesitation and with certainty. But for now, it could very well be a severe and costly misdiagnosis.

The philosophy was perilous from the get go, but the only obvious 'coaching' mistakes I've seen are a few of his selections and some of the positional experiments (though he's got some right too) But what I have seen very clearly, is that he is truly passionate, caring and committed to this club long term. Not just a careerist using us as a stepping stone. That counts for something in my book. In fact it counts a lot in my book...

Enough that I'll actually see out this f**king calamitous season and make my mind up on whether we should lynch our admiral, when we can finally get back into port to repair a hull that was breached beyond repair many months ago.

Hang him from the yard arm now and we won't see any change till next year anyway, and we'll never know if we just hung a really good man who was shit out of luck. And luck always turns in my experience.

Keep doing the same thing and expect a different result...

 

[pjennings]

Mulvey would be fantastic. Not sure that he would accept the poisoned chalice.
I think Tony might flourish next year but only if the club brings in a quality defensive coach and a goalkeeping coach as well.

They talked to him for this season and he ran a mile. TW was probably the top of a very short list that would live with the restrictions placed upon him.

 

[pjennings]

I am very frustrated at the moment, seeing the club in this position bloody hurts and I'm not only talking about the table.

I'm sorry but TW gets 1 KPI, to entertain, results are not important says MC.............please what a load of shit. How can anyone defend the stats from our past 7 games :

Wins = 1, draw = 1, losses = 5
Goals scored = 11, conceded = 20
Shots for us = 50 (avg. 7.14 per game), shots against = 121 (avg. 17.28 per game)
Possession avg. approx 39% v 61% for the opposition
Passes by us = 2324 (avg. 332 per game), passes for opposition = 3625 (avg. 517 per game)
Every game the opposition has had more shots, more possession, more corners and more passes (that includes the game we won)

It has to come back to our quality of players and coaching, TW has to take the responsibility.

1) we're not entertaining (well not for our own fans) 7 shots per game is NOT what I call entertaining and attacking
2) our passing is a horrible stat, we will never be truly competitive until we sort the middle of the field out
3) we can't keep a hold of the ball, we give the ball away too cheaply

MC needs to understand that we're in a business where results are important, how we compete is important, fans will not continue to spend their money on poor performances (would you keep going back to a restaurant that kept serving shit food?)...........I understand that we're forward planning for a Mariners on the Coast for what we all hope is forever but we can't keep performing on the field the way that we are.

I'm not going to try and defend the stats - they are indefensible. However, the responsibility lies higher than Tony. If the constraints are put in place by MC that no other manager would take and TW took it on a best efforts / organisational change basis then TW has only delivered what he has been allowed to.

 

[Forum Phoenix]

Yes. Its "madness" when nothing has changed to expect a different result.

That is the exact point. I want change too. But Im not expecting change while others clearly are. In my opinion it means people are ignoring the reality of our squad and making the assumption that much better could be done by another coach. I dont see this as a reasonable assumption/conclusion at this time.

 

[Wombat]

Sorry - reworded half the post, obviously didn't edit it well.
Point was that I don't see any other coach making much of a difference under the current circumstances.

I don't have a better suggestion than to stay with Walmsley... We always look at the same five coaches... There's a reason for that... Those 5 are always available in some way and - except for Rudan and arguably Miron - have been fired from A-league clubs at least once.
Mulvey has shown some promise, but he's also shown some absolutely horrible stuff... Definitely the best of the bunch at this point, but I don't really think "best of a bad bunch" is what we should be going for.
I think Walmsley's shown some promise too, but he's here now and we know that he's willing to coach for us - which could be more than can be said about any of the other 5 anyway.

When has Mulvey shown any horrible stuff?????
Bris smashed someone 4 or 5-1 just before he got sacked.
He had them playing better after they won the league under him than Arnie had us playing after we won our title.
The only question is......did he get too big for his boots after winning the league.
To question his coaching ability is a worry....if I can sugarcoat it.

 

[Wombat]

Mick has posted on SFCU that he is unwilling at this time to sign a new contract.

I would be unhappy to see him go to another A-League club. Not so much for the loss of him as a player but for the loss of one of what I hoped would be one of the cadre to build a new team around.

If he is after more money and has overseas ambitions, good luck to him.

As a player he has pace to burn and can scare defences, but on the other side of the coin he is one dimensional (kick and chase) and is lacking in decision making at the end of a good run. He also appears a little fragile at this stage in terms of small injuries and stamina to go 90 minutes.

I would like to see if he can learn from Garcia and then make a move to a quality overseas club in the future in a move that would benefit both he and the club.

Mick sometimes posts bollocks.....I hope this is the case.

 

[Wombat]

The biggest problem with our defence is that you cannot put old heads on young shoulders. Centre halves and keepers take years to mature. The odd exception like Ryan are rare.

We definitely need another like Patrick to guide the back four and a safe, steady keeper who can control his box and maybe distribute moderately well.

This would take a lot of pressure off Monty and Rose jr and allow them to control the midfield.

With a good #10 the strikers and wingers we have will score.

Three quality signings, easy.

Rose Jnr should not be starting 11. He clearly has quality but he is a bit of a liability just at the moment......he is in a pretty big group of liabilities right now.

 

[Wombat]

I'd be very surprised if Dutchy ever worked for CCM again..............forming 1 hell of a defence for Terrigal All age I hear this year possibly with O'Grady and Hutch just above them in midfield.

He is an obvious solution. Both need each other. Paddy is a fine man and I'm sure would help us out if asked.

 

[Wombat]

In terms of players who have improved? In my view

Ascroft McGing and Austin

Players who appear to have regressed ?

Monty and Rose (Monty is trying to do too much imho)

Our overall level of organisation is still at preseason level sadly.

Did everyone subconsciously believe the "results don't matter" message?

I don't think Monty has regressed at all. His form has dropped in the last 3 weeks but he is still the stand out for this season so far.
Posco, Austin, Fab and Paddy have been decent at times
McGing, Ashcroft and Bingham have shown some potential at times.
The Spanish scouser looks a cut above when not played out of position.
Everyone else has been shite for the majority of the season.

 

[BrisRecky]

Poor game, but I'm not sure why so many people are surprised or taking it further to heart. It's the same issues. Because we're still a team largely comprised of very inexperienced players that are playing superior and more experienced teams who have been playing without any major disruption all year. It's the same. I know that's frustrating, but we've all known why for months haven't we??

A combination of money ball, losing our senior leadership and rotten apples - and though we tried to get around it, to be clear, it doomed us from the get go, and so now we have to deal with it.

The club has clearly tried, but the only "miracle cure" is four (maybe five) high quality experienced and costly players, and even then it almost certainly requires another pre season.

Stella, Fletcher, mcDonald...even Louis, were never going to turn our season on its head, so I can't point the bone at Tony, because it's beyond improbable that any other coach could win with our current squad either. But there is a lot of great young talent in this side, it's just too early for half of them still, but what option have we had?

When we started this year under TW, we played well, and EVERYONE agreed that we looked like we might be a truly exciting attacking machine. But we had dissent BEFORE we'd kicked a ball in earnest. That dissent translated into an already threadbare squad now drastically lacking depth, experience and leadership. Add a headbutt here, a hamstring there...and it was season over. So now they're blooding even more youth. As they should. But of course it's not fixing anything.

This is the reason I'm not in the TW out camp.

I hate getting carved up by Mooy, Garuccio and Fornaroli or being monstered by Malik, Wilko and Kisnorbo as much as the next fan... but to think TW has the means at hand to alter that right now, while desirable - is simply untrue. Even a 'supercoach' couldn't do it.

So I'll be 'Tony in' until he has a pre season and a properly balanced team and dressing room of his own. After that, if the first 6 games look anything like the present. Then he should be booted without hesitation and with certainty. But for now, it could very well be a severe and costly misdiagnosis.

The philosophy was perilous from the get go, but the only obvious 'coaching' mistakes I've seen are a few of his selections and some of the positional experiments (though he's got some right too) But what I have seen very clearly, is that he is truly passionate, caring and committed to this club long term. Not just a careerist using us as a stepping stone. That counts for something in my book. In fact it counts a lot in my book...

Enough that I'll actually see out this f**king calamitous season and make my mind up on whether we should lynch our admiral, when we can finally get back into port to repair a hull that was breached beyond repair many months ago.

Hang him from the yard arm now and we won't see any change till next year anyway, and we'll never know if we just hung a really good man who was shit out of luck. And luck always turns in my experience.

Phoenix posts sheer brilliance again, I have to retract my TW diving on his sword comment now, I posted that when royally fkn annoyed at yet another game were we rolled over and let the opposition do what they saw fit...I do have one question, was Fabs red a straight one or did he get the commensurate amount of yellows, cause that ref was letting a lot of stuff go, I must of missed them if he got the first one