dibo
Well-Known Member
I work with football people who follow the League and generally don't follow the Mariners and I can say hand on heart that nobody had ever said to me they'd take Caceres off us.
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R12 Sydney FC v Mariners
- Thread starter rbakersmith
- Start date
tim...
Well-Known Member
I completely agree, it seems odd that this talk doesn't happen when WSW or the Scum are sitting stone motherless, but when it's us somehow it's hot topic.
I suppose at least the TV blokes are talking about us instead of completely ignoring us which seems to happen most often.
I suppose at least the TV blokes are talking about us instead of completely ignoring us which seems to happen most often.
Luca Brasi
Well-Known Member
Not often I cant watch a whole match but after the first 30 minutes I FF on x 6, all that it needed was the Benny Hill music, really hate losing to SFC especially after the CCM coaching exodus there.
I can understand the disappointment (and share it in great lumps) but what is the answer?
Most have identified that the squad is short in depth and quality before the season started, this is the result of financial/football mismanagement for a number of years.
Sacking TW might make the commentators happy but is there anybody else that could turn this squad into a winning team this season?
I dont trust the motives of the owner but if he pulls out then there goes the CCM, our license will be sold on to another market.
Vicious cycle however as other have pointed out, can the club survive 2 poor seasons in a row given the fickle fan base and the financial impact poor crowds will have?
Even if there was $ for January transfer window, unless you can the right players for 2 season deals it would be of little benefit to make panic buys just to avoid the spoon.
From all reports Heward-Belle is worth another go next week but we are going to have to sign a short term replacement for Izzo given his Olyroo selection.
At this point I would settle on a back four and keep them together - Roux, Ascroft, Posco, Rose.
Try and keep Monty on the pitch and keep persevering with Liam Rose, I think he is the pick of the young talent and the experience this year will see him become a genuine first 11 player next year.
Caceres is not motivated from my observation, I like his technical ability on the ball but we would be better off releasing him. Transition to attack is our big problem and we have no proper #10 in the squad, perhaps this is where a replacement for Caceres could be best used, otherwise its trial and error with Kalik, Sim or Trifiro. Ferreira and Austin both provide attacking outlets wide but our crossing has been poor and we are isolated up front on the break. I dont get the Roy hate, he works his butt off and gets bugger all service, a clearly better signing than players like Mane, Sutton and 2015 Simon.
It is hard to select players when you dont know what is going on behind the scenes.
- clearly I was being optimistic, it has only taken another 3 losses.
I can understand the disappointment (and share it in great lumps) but what is the answer?
Most have identified that the squad is short in depth and quality before the season started, this is the result of financial/football mismanagement for a number of years.
Sacking TW might make the commentators happy but is there anybody else that could turn this squad into a winning team this season?
I dont trust the motives of the owner but if he pulls out then there goes the CCM, our license will be sold on to another market.
Vicious cycle however as other have pointed out, can the club survive 2 poor seasons in a row given the fickle fan base and the financial impact poor crowds will have?
Even if there was $ for January transfer window, unless you can the right players for 2 season deals it would be of little benefit to make panic buys just to avoid the spoon.
From all reports Heward-Belle is worth another go next week but we are going to have to sign a short term replacement for Izzo given his Olyroo selection.
At this point I would settle on a back four and keep them together - Roux, Ascroft, Posco, Rose.
Try and keep Monty on the pitch and keep persevering with Liam Rose, I think he is the pick of the young talent and the experience this year will see him become a genuine first 11 player next year.
Caceres is not motivated from my observation, I like his technical ability on the ball but we would be better off releasing him. Transition to attack is our big problem and we have no proper #10 in the squad, perhaps this is where a replacement for Caceres could be best used, otherwise its trial and error with Kalik, Sim or Trifiro. Ferreira and Austin both provide attacking outlets wide but our crossing has been poor and we are isolated up front on the break. I dont get the Roy hate, he works his butt off and gets bugger all service, a clearly better signing than players like Mane, Sutton and 2015 Simon.
It is hard to select players when you dont know what is going on behind the scenes.
AGREE - I find it especially offensive coming from Bosnich who returned to Australia in 2008 a broken man and his reputation in tatters after his cocaine addiction ruined his professional career. It was CCM who offered him another chance on the pitch which he used to re-establish enough credibility to secure his media gig with Fox.
FFC Mariner
Well-Known Member
Wasn't it Lawrie who rescued him?
Forum Phoenix
Well-Known Member
Sums it all up perfectly Luca.
None of our penetration in early games came centrally and then we lost our wingers.
I actually can't tell if Caceres is unmotivated - because i think his movement is very poor irrespective and always has been. So it makes him look like he's possibly lazy or doesn't care. Nether of which may actually be true.
Was always critical of this aspect even when getting chewed out about it while people were raving about him - because if you watched the game closely and him more specifically, so much of his involvement was when the play fell to him - not because he was actively putting himself in the right positions. That was pretty worrying because you are unlikely to ever be consistent over 90 minutes let alone a whole season. He ALWAYS goes missing from matches for extended spells and this is the reason why.
And now imo it has cost us majorly in investing in him as our first choice ten over the last two seasons with only Trifiro occasionally challenging for his position.
As a defender, you don't have to shut Caceres down, he takes care of a lot of that himself. The big pro is that he's very hard to take the ball off and you'll be skinned most every time if you try and dive in. So he's at his most dangerous when he's combined in interplay with someone like Fab or Bernie who also have great feet but are also always looking to move into space and past players.
He might appear better suited to DM Ancient Mariner, but imo he lacks the engine/desire that i think any high level DM needs - in his current mentality and physicality he would always have to be partnered/carried, because in the most important attributes, he's simply not in the same league as Monty or most other DM's in the HAL. Whereas at least as an AM he does have some of the most important attributes - and the big one is that players with his skill level on the ball are rare, so you can see why the club has tried to develop him as a ten. Why fans will like him, players respect him, and coaches see exciting potential...
In the mids, this is unfortunately all compounded by Fitz. Unlike some I've always been a fan of Fitz. Such a hard worker, But it's funny, he and Cac, arguably the two players of their ccm youth generation who have now been left behind, both suffer from not really having all of the attributes to make any position truly their own.
Fitz I feel more able to see a future with - because mentally he appears to be a lot tougher than Caceres - so a couple more years and the better decision making and polish on his crosses and finishing may well start to come.
Whereas its players like adrian Caceres or Caravella ( not because of surnames) that leap to mind when I think of Cac. Lot of talent... But in the long run are typically surpassed by players with better footballing brains and or stronger work ethics.
Give Monty Caceres feet, and he'd be unstoppable. As it is he's ten times more effective. Which he shouldn't be.
I agree on L.Rose though. Looks to have good feet, decent work ethic and a footballers mind. Just needs more experience and time to grow a little more physically.
None of our penetration in early games came centrally and then we lost our wingers.
I actually can't tell if Caceres is unmotivated - because i think his movement is very poor irrespective and always has been. So it makes him look like he's possibly lazy or doesn't care. Nether of which may actually be true.
Was always critical of this aspect even when getting chewed out about it while people were raving about him - because if you watched the game closely and him more specifically, so much of his involvement was when the play fell to him - not because he was actively putting himself in the right positions. That was pretty worrying because you are unlikely to ever be consistent over 90 minutes let alone a whole season. He ALWAYS goes missing from matches for extended spells and this is the reason why.
And now imo it has cost us majorly in investing in him as our first choice ten over the last two seasons with only Trifiro occasionally challenging for his position.
As a defender, you don't have to shut Caceres down, he takes care of a lot of that himself. The big pro is that he's very hard to take the ball off and you'll be skinned most every time if you try and dive in. So he's at his most dangerous when he's combined in interplay with someone like Fab or Bernie who also have great feet but are also always looking to move into space and past players.
He might appear better suited to DM Ancient Mariner, but imo he lacks the engine/desire that i think any high level DM needs - in his current mentality and physicality he would always have to be partnered/carried, because in the most important attributes, he's simply not in the same league as Monty or most other DM's in the HAL. Whereas at least as an AM he does have some of the most important attributes - and the big one is that players with his skill level on the ball are rare, so you can see why the club has tried to develop him as a ten. Why fans will like him, players respect him, and coaches see exciting potential...
In the mids, this is unfortunately all compounded by Fitz. Unlike some I've always been a fan of Fitz. Such a hard worker, But it's funny, he and Cac, arguably the two players of their ccm youth generation who have now been left behind, both suffer from not really having all of the attributes to make any position truly their own.
Fitz I feel more able to see a future with - because mentally he appears to be a lot tougher than Caceres - so a couple more years and the better decision making and polish on his crosses and finishing may well start to come.
Whereas its players like adrian Caceres or Caravella ( not because of surnames) that leap to mind when I think of Cac. Lot of talent... But in the long run are typically surpassed by players with better footballing brains and or stronger work ethics.
Give Monty Caceres feet, and he'd be unstoppable. As it is he's ten times more effective. Which he shouldn't be.
I agree on L.Rose though. Looks to have good feet, decent work ethic and a footballers mind. Just needs more experience and time to grow a little more physically.
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Ancient Mariner
Well-Known Member
Fully agree. Good post.
Rowdy
Well-Known Member
That my friend is what's more commonly known as ......
"Fcuking - LOYALTY "
(Edit: the following is directed to LFCMariner)
You can curse the Owner
You can curse the Coach
Curse a player or sometimes even the entire teams performance.
But never, EVER 'walk-away' from your Club...........NO MATTER WHAT !
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Rowdy
Well-Known Member
To LFCMariners,
I myself am also Liverpool supporter, so I'm sure you've sung YNWA a time or two.
Perhaps you might like to stop and think what the words to that anthemic club song truly means and apply the same sentiments to the Mariners, who are my 1st team - LFC after that, despite following the Scouse for longer.
That's just my mentality, borne from my passion for the Mariners - which far outweighs my passion for Liverpool.
And always .......... COYY !
Edit:
Yeah! & What he says.
I myself am also Liverpool supporter, so I'm sure you've sung YNWA a time or two.
Perhaps you might like to stop and think what the words to that anthemic club song truly means and apply the same sentiments to the Mariners, who are my 1st team - LFC after that, despite following the Scouse for longer.
That's just my mentality, borne from my passion for the Mariners - which far outweighs my passion for Liverpool.
And always .......... COYY !
Edit:
Yeah! & What he says.
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Capn Gus Bloodbeard
Well-Known Member
Out of interest, I've posted the incidents on an overseas refereeing forum. First few responses are stating that Izzo's penalty doesn't deserve a caution. Not reckless, not cynical.
The team is more than the CEO. You're not going to stop supporting just because, say, a player keeps screwing up - why do it just because some bloke with a fancy suit and more money than anybody deserves to have is doing it?
Spacks
Well-Known Member
Never did I say I would walk away from the team...
MagpieMariner
Well-Known Member
If I stop following MY club, I'll have to change my user-name. 
I've followed my other club for 55 years. In that time they've "won" 2 spoons, they've won 2 premierships, sometimes they've played finals, sometimes not. There have been times when I've cursed the coach (especially the last 3 years), many times I've cursed some of the players, but I just cannot stop supporting the club.
I won't live long enough to support the Mariners 55 years, but for as long as I'm alive and for as long as the club exists, I'll support them. I don't have to like the coach, I don't have to like the results or the efforts of some of the players, but I won't give up on the club.
If that makes me sentimental then I can accept that.
I've followed my other club for 55 years. In that time they've "won" 2 spoons, they've won 2 premierships, sometimes they've played finals, sometimes not. There have been times when I've cursed the coach (especially the last 3 years), many times I've cursed some of the players, but I just cannot stop supporting the club.
I won't live long enough to support the Mariners 55 years, but for as long as I'm alive and for as long as the club exists, I'll support them. I don't have to like the coach, I don't have to like the results or the efforts of some of the players, but I won't give up on the club.
If that makes me sentimental then I can accept that.
dibo
Well-Known Member
I don't even want Charlesworth out. I want him to start making good calls that make us (and by extension, him) money and make us successful. I want him to get the business right because that keeps the club going in the long term.
I'm *less* worried about that side of things this year than last. We seem to be at least operating to some sort of coherent plan (even if the on-field results are frankly poo right now).
The club as a whole doesn't appear to be a clusterf**k. The communications are far better. I actually feel like fans matter again.
There are still things I don't like (moving games, etc.) but I feel like the club at least trusts us or cares enough about what we think to offer a rationale (e.g. Shaun running through the comparative cost/benefit of moves.
Given this, I think now is exactly the time to *not* talk about walking. Back them in - show a bit of faith in the longer term vision. Don't give up on it because if we do, they will too, and then we don't have a club at all.
This year's gonna be crap on the park. Yep, OK, we're probably more than due for a truly shit year. We've lived a charmed life. I also don't see any quick solution. The fix will take a contract cycle of 2-3 years; a cycle we might well already be a year into. So let's not go crazy and make rash calls on coaches or players, let's roll on through and get what points we can.
If the Jets somehow free-fall past us into last I'll be thrilled, otherwise I'm mentally prepared that we're gonna get the spoon. If this is the price of long-term stability, I'll pay it twice if need be.
I'm *less* worried about that side of things this year than last. We seem to be at least operating to some sort of coherent plan (even if the on-field results are frankly poo right now).
The club as a whole doesn't appear to be a clusterf**k. The communications are far better. I actually feel like fans matter again.
There are still things I don't like (moving games, etc.) but I feel like the club at least trusts us or cares enough about what we think to offer a rationale (e.g. Shaun running through the comparative cost/benefit of moves.
Given this, I think now is exactly the time to *not* talk about walking. Back them in - show a bit of faith in the longer term vision. Don't give up on it because if we do, they will too, and then we don't have a club at all.
This year's gonna be crap on the park. Yep, OK, we're probably more than due for a truly shit year. We've lived a charmed life. I also don't see any quick solution. The fix will take a contract cycle of 2-3 years; a cycle we might well already be a year into. So let's not go crazy and make rash calls on coaches or players, let's roll on through and get what points we can.
If the Jets somehow free-fall past us into last I'll be thrilled, otherwise I'm mentally prepared that we're gonna get the spoon. If this is the price of long-term stability, I'll pay it twice if need be.
MagpieMariner
Well-Known Member
Even if we get the spoon this year (and it's looking pretty likely), we'll still have fewer than the scum.
Rowdy
Well-Known Member
True, never said you did. I wasn't attributing 'walking away' to yourself. Quoted you to explain that the other side of your coin/post to some is what's called loyalty.
(I've edited my post to make this clearer
)your posts read, as you're supporting a bloke (LFC) whose intial post of "I'm DONE" on first reading, reads as um, well "He's DONE supporting the club".
Thats all.
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Rowdy
Well-Known Member
rbakersmith
Well-Known Member
pjennings
Well-Known Member
Only if we sign Chris Oldfield
We have signed Alistair Bray until the end of the season.
Rowdy
Well-Known Member
RC ???
Hate to tell you this, it's MC ...... as in Mike Charlesworth.
Maybe you're thinking R as in Richard, because you think he's a dick-head.
Rowdy
Well-Known Member
Thought Bray was only rumour, hadn't seen it confirmed as of yet.
If so- then dumb move, factoring in Izzo going away with the Olyroos in January (if the selector's dont change their mind
after his recent performances)Oldfield would have provided farrrrrr more experience/age and physicality in the box.
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