New Mariners Coach?

[Forum Phoenix]

Finally, reason and sense seems to be returning to the forum...
Thank f**k for some sweet fresh air at last....

The Lawrie out rubbish has been absolutely killing me as a supporter.

A dismal run of performances I can handle. Concerns, discussion etc.. about it are warranted and fine... but the emotionality, lack of reason and worst of all easy hatred and abuse, really began to feel like our beautiful spirited gutsy little club, that has so consistently punched beyond it weight, and beyond what I think is any possible expectation that a reasonable fan could have... Well, shit, it begun to feel like we were adopting the absolute mentality that has been shown by Bling and other clubs with their heads firmly up their asses the world over. A winners mentality some call it. You have to expect and demand the best to get the best... and nothing else will do...  A recipe for total f**king disaster for a small community club in its infancy more like. I've actually been genuinely scared that we were beginning to seriously jeopardise our own beloved clubs future.

And please don't say its the losses that have done it, winning is always good for growth, but every club will need to endure and survive losing streaks.

The problem is that two weeks ago, after burning for months over the Lawrie out thread, I finally had my 11 year old son come home and tell me his football buddies from school now all "hated" Lawrie. I was stunned, (I've done my best to counter this now) but this occured because at their respective team trainings they had been listening to the emotional and un realistic opinions that had gradually filtered down through the ranks... sure they took several months to get down to the kids... but they got there.

I felt embarrassed and ashamed as a supporter that this could actually be being said about someone who has done so very much for football on the coast and has clearly proved he is one of the top A league coaches and in my opinion the best role model and representative that any A league club has had so far.

The same can be said for the bad mouthing of various players. Take the piss, critique performance, well and good... But the whole... "Your uttelry f**king shit"  " Your not fit to wear the shirt" crap is never anything but destructive. And for a small community based club? I honestly just don't think we can afford this kind of pessimism and ill sentiment. Ragging on the coach or players is a luxury you may be afforded when you know your clubs future is fairly safe because your hopelessly addicted fan base will return next season regardless even its just to complain about their teams short comings...  but for the CC Mariners... shit... this rubbish can  bring even large and prestigious clubs to their knees.

The reality is, we have actually managed to gripe about our current manager enough, until finally the young kids of the coast, who lacking our purportedly football based knowledge and adult reasoning, translate the discontent they hear into the only currency they can readily understand... we hate him... he's shit and they're shit.

This from, falling backwards over having the self same players or manager signing their shirt only a season ago... It's sad in a word, and more worriedly I think we're really sticking our heads in the noose.

This needs to be undone.

I don't want to be misunderstood, I don't miss a game, and I haven't enjoyed our poor run, however in truth I still just love going to a mariners match regardless, it's just even better when we win. That said, for mine, anyone who truly thinks our run of results were coaching and not squad related is kidding themselves. We lost Mile and our season accordingly. The transfer - was it wise in terms of football? Clearly not, yet as if they didn't know that? But honorable and in the best interests of the player? I'd say most definitely so. And it's something which I am proud of, and also something which is likely integral to us being able to attract any players at all to a club which otherwise is clearly outgunned in this league in its buying/pulling power otherwise. A hard to bare fact, which cost us our chance of a more successful ACL bid with our under strength squad.

So what are we to do.... we can blame a team or harass our players, when it is quite clear that we have been a couple of key players short of cutting it? Or we can blame management for being stingy and inept for not making signings? But how anyone can think this is beyond me. Do you really think the people who unearthed Mile and built a journeymans squad that has achieved what it has against all odds are stupid? Lazy perhaps? You think Lyall's was out dancing with disco Nik during the transfer window and recruitment just slipped his mind? You really don't think they were trying? You don't think those whose whole lives are completely invested in the club aren't giving it every ounce of their best? Or maybe, as many have rebutted very well, you think they have bags of cash but are just unwilling to use them? 

Or...

Could it just be that you just don't always get what you want?
And that you may know what you need and work tirelessly to get it...
but never the less all of your best laid plans can come to naught?

This sounds like football, business, and life to me.

Anyhow, everyone will do what they are going to do... but regardless I'd like to encourage everyone to consider a little if you think that the way you support your club and address your concerns over on field performance, might potentially be able to be achieved in way that if not adding value, at the least doesn't directly damage or diminish what we have. That being a small club, in a new league still working to establish itself and secure its future - who has surprised everyone with its relative level of success.

So, for love of football... for love of the Mariners...
Like Mariner Mick said, lets just try loosening up a little and maybe defy the critics and the norm by in a time of difficulty showing a little love.  Who knows you might even find you can still have a laugh and still enjoy yourself even in the dismal runs, which every club is bound to have at some point.

Best To All

SS
Forum Phoenix

 

[RobC]

Finally, reason and sense seems to be returning to the forum...
Thank f**k for some sweet fresh air at last....

The Lawrie out rubbish has been absolutely killing me as a supporter.

A dismal run of performances I can handle. Concerns, discussion etc.. about it are warranted and fine... but the emotionality, lack of reason and worst of all easy hatred and abuse, really began to feel like our beautiful spirited gutsy little club, that has so consistently punched beyond it weight, and beyond what I think is any possible expectation that a reasonable fan could have... Well, shit, it begun to feel like we were adopting the absolute mentality that has been shown by Bling and other clubs with their heads firmly up their asses the world over. A winners mentality some call it. You have to expect and demand the best to get the best... and nothing else will do...  A recipe for total f**king disaster for a small community club in its infancy more like. I've actually been genuinely scared that we were beginning to seriously jeopardise our own beloved clubs future.

And please don't say its the losses that have done it, winning is always good for growth, but every club will need to endure and survive losing streaks.

The problem is that two weeks ago, after burning for months over the Lawrie out thread, I finally had my 11 year old son come home and tell me his football buddies from school now all "hated" Lawrie. I was stunned, (I've done my best to counter this now) but this occured because at their respective team trainings they had been listening to the emotional and un realistic opinions that had gradually filtered down through the ranks... sure they took several months to get down to the kids... but they got there.

I felt embarrassed and ashamed as a supporter that this could actually be being said about someone who has done so very much for football on the coast and has clearly proved he is one of the top A league coaches and in my opinion the best role model and representative that any A league club has had so far.

The same can be said for the bad mouthing of various players. Take the piss, critique performance, well and good... But the whole... "Your uttelry f**king shit"  " Your not fit to wear the shirt" crap is never anything but destructive. And for a small community based club? I honestly just don't think we can afford this kind of pessimism and ill sentiment. Ragging on the coach or players is a luxury you may be afforded when you know your clubs future is fairly safe because your hopelessly addicted fan base will return next season regardless even its just to complain about their teams short comings...  but for the CC Mariners... shit... this rubbish can  bring even large and prestigious clubs to their knees.

The reality is, we have actually managed to gripe about our current manager enough, until finally the young kids of the coast, who lacking our purportedly football based knowledge and adult reasoning, translate the discontent they hear into the only currency they can readily understand... we hate him... he's shit and they're shit.

This from, falling backwards over having the self same players or manager signing their shirt only a season ago... It's sad in a word, and more worriedly I think we're really sticking our heads in the noose.

This needs to be undone.

I don't want to be misunderstood, I don't miss a game, and I haven't enjoyed our poor run, however in truth I still just love going to a mariners match regardless, it's just even better when we win. That said, for mine, anyone who truly thinks our run of results were coaching and not squad related is kidding themselves. We lost Mile and our season accordingly. The transfer - was it wise in terms of football? Clearly not, yet as if they didn't know that? But honorable and in the best interests of the player? I'd say most definitely so. And it's something which I am proud of, and also something which is likely integral to us being able to attract any players at all to a club which otherwise is clearly outgunned in this league in its buying/pulling power otherwise. A hard to bare fact, which cost us our chance of a more successful ACL bid with our under strength squad.

So what are we to do.... we can blame a team or harass our players, when it is quite clear that we have been a couple of key players short of cutting it? Or we can blame management for being stingy and inept for not making signings? But how anyone can think this is beyond me. Do you really think the people who unearthed Mile and built a journeymans squad that has achieved what it has against all odds are stupid? Lazy perhaps? You think Lyall's was out dancing with disco Nik during the transfer window and recruitment just slipped his mind? You really don't think they were trying? You don't think those whose whole lives are completely invested in the club aren't giving it every ounce of their best? Or maybe, as many have rebutted very well, you think they have bags of cash but are just unwilling to use them? 

Or...

Could it just be that you just don't always get what you want?
And that you may know what you need and work tirelessly to get it...
but never the less all of your best laid plans can come to naught?

This sounds like football, business, and life to me.

Anyhow, everyone will do what they are going to do... but regardless I'd like to encourage everyone to consider a little if you think that the way you support your club and address your concerns over on field performance, might potentially be able to be achieved in way that if not adding value, at the least doesn't directly damage or diminish what we have. That being a small club, in a new league still working to establish itself and secure its future - who has surprised everyone with its relative level of success.

So, for love of football... for love of the Mariners...
Like Mariner Mick said, lets just try loosening up a little and maybe defy the critics and the norm by in a time of difficulty showing a little love.  Who knows you might even find you can still have a laugh and still enjoy yourself even in the dismal runs, which every club is bound to have at some point.

Best To All

SS
Forum Phoenix

   

 

[Ursus]

Thank you.

 

[marinermick]

It is in our english history and gene pool to be miserable, critical and insecure.

 

[UnitedsNo9]

Yes.  , thank you!

 

[clarence]

It is in our english history and gene pool to be miserable, critical and insecure.

+1. And bastards too eh, Ursus?

In response to the lengthy post from Phoenix, I will say that unless we continue to strive for a better team, a better club, and better results all round, it is very easy for the club and the A-League as a whole, to fall into complacency.

Our crowds were down last year and I am prepared to sit and wait before hailing doom and gloom for this upcoming season.

I see promise in the signings of Huke & Doig. They are arguably better prospects for the team than O'Grady ever was, and strengthen the defense which WAS an issue last season. Boogs and Wilko will have to prove themselves for their spot each week so long as these two guys play to form and stay healthy.

Travis... has he actually been confirmed as signed yet? If so, another better team prospect, too.

We have been lucky with Matt Simon, as his knee injury was not as much a tragedy as we (and he) had thought. He will take part in the season after recovery, which will be good. Macallister will be back too, so that looks good.

Can Mrdja give enough heart to get properly fit and play as well as he should have been for the last 3 seasons? Big ask given his form over the last 4 years but who knows, he may be useful while Matt is getting fitter.

I feel, with a stronger defense line, we will see a better performance from Danny, and the attacking mids like Caceres. Danny, because he may have better confidence in his defense to get to the attacking players and shutting down plays, and Caceres, because he can concentrate on counter attack further up the field rather than trying to mount an attack from his own penalty box!

You can be pessimist and worry about the stories or conjecture (from people like Marinermick) that the club simply cannot spend the salary cap as it doesn't have the resources, or you could say they will at least be a going concern for season 6 by NOT spending up to the FFA's limit.

I won't be an optimist blinded by hopes of all things good....running a football club has to be one of the more harder business ventures to make money out of, or at least stay financially viable, and no doubt there are challenges ahead, juts like any sporting club in these times.

But I'd rather be a supporter of the Central Coast Mariners FC than say, Cronulla-Sutherland RLFC or Parramatta RLFC. If you want examples of clubs in trouble look no further than those two!

The business model that the FFA has for the A-League does place a restraint on clubs 'buying' a premiership then going down the toilet the very next season.

And while we are going to have to really fight hard to get crowds in across the country due to financial constraints on many families, our comp. is in a fair better shape than say the NRL and the AFL who are both so bloated with freebies and pay backs to PR people etc. that their expenditures are high and will remain high, while their crowds may dip and even TV revenue drop too.

Remember, both of these codes do rely upon TV Rights payments and the FTA TV stations are having a horrid time with revenue for now & into the foreseeable future. The networks may actually have to offer less to these codes for future TV rights purely because they may not have the $$ to spend. That scenario will impact heavily upon those codes should it happen, whereas the A-League can develop further (for a more reasonable price) for FTA & we do have the Foxtel contract that is gold to us.

But we cannot be complacent. We must challenge issues that seem odd or not right, we do have to voice our opinions.

 

[Arabmariner]

To this debate on poor form since the start of the year, I will add further points.

The Mariners showed excellent fighting spirit for most of V4, as in coming from behind to get draws in Adelaide and Sydney, as well as in a home win over Sydney (albeit through a penalty)- and hence they were up there, in the mix throughout. Has that fight really gone from the team since then, when the loss in form began???

The loss in form,apart from the odd game,began as far back as the 5-4 Sydney game imo.

Winning the league (on the back of early season wins while everyone else kept drawing) and reaching the GF with a fantastic 2nd leg performance against the scum papered over the cracks a little.

Yes we showed great team spirit to come back in those 3-3 draws in Sydney and Adelaide but perhaps those comebacks just papered over the cracks a little more.

Regarding LM,I think most realise all that he has done for this club.I don't think many would simply like to see him discarded.But you can't deny there is a feeling out there that he has done all he can for this club in a coaching sense.Without a win these grumblings will continue.....and I'm not talking about a few people on this forum....I'm talking about the punters around me at the games .Supporters who never look at this forum.

Only one thing will make the negativity go away.

Wins.

Competative wins (f**k friendlys....they don't count)

We've gone six months without a competitive win.To those who don't think we should criticise I ask........how long before we do get critical ? Another 6 months, a year ?

 

[serious14]

To this debate on poor form since the start of the year, I will add further points.

The Mariners showed excellent fighting spirit for most of V4, as in coming from behind to get draws in Adelaide and Sydney, as well as in a home win over Sydney (albeit through a penalty)- and hence they were up there, in the mix throughout. Has that fight really gone from the team since then, when the loss in form began???

The loss in form,apart from the odd game,began as far back as the 5-4 Sydney game imo.

Winning the league (on the back of early season wins while everyone else kept drawing) and reaching the GF with a fantastic 2nd leg performance against the scum papered over the cracks a little.

Yes we showed great team spirit to come back in those 3-3 draws in Sydney and Adelaide but perhaps those comebacks just papered over the cracks a little more.

Regarding LM,I think most realise all that he has done for this club.I don't think many would simply like to see him discarded.But you can't deny there is a feeling out there that he has done all he can for this club in a coaching sense.Without a win these grumblings will continue.....and I'm not talking about a few people on this forum....I'm talking about the punters around me at the games .Supporters who never look at this forum.

Only one thing will make the negativity go away.

Wins.

Competative wins (f**k friendlys....they don't count)

We've gone six months without a competitive win.To those who don't think we should criticise I ask........how long before we do get critical ? Another 6 months, a year ?

Now now, such realism isn't appreciated around these parts.  Best keep those thoughts to yourself, lest you be criticised. 

 

[David Votoupal]

Arabmariner and serious have the right idea.

I am not advocating McKinna to be removed immediately. However, I am calling for legitimate debate on whether he is still the right man for the job in the long term, whether the club's current strategy is right in the long term.

A loss of form can point to longer term problems. We've been through that with Everton over years.

Accepting tiresome cliches and mediocrity is a dangerous thing. It's dangerous in a young league where opportunities are there for progress, it's dangerous when the line between stability and stagnation is razor-thin.

 

[midfielder]

Arabmariner and serious have the right idea.

I am not advocating McKinna to be removed immediately. However, I am calling for legitimate debate on whether he is still the right man for the job in the long term, whether the club's current strategy is right in the long term.

A loss of form can point to longer term problems. We've been through that with Everton over years.

Accepting tiresome cliches and mediocrity is a dangerous thing. It's dangerous in a young league where opportunities are there for progress, it's dangerous when the line between stability and stagnation is razor-thin.

+ 1

 

[FFC Mariner]

Hmmmm

The issues that (I believe) have hurt us are:

Poor recruiting for V4 relative to other clubs
Loss of experience over the last year (Tommy,Sasho, Aloisi,Vidmar etc)
Yoof team disaster
Not replacing Fergie (although who knew Tobin wouldnt be able to step up)
Jedi going

Having watched most of the NYL games that were at BT last season, I find it hard to believe we couldnt find some CC kids who were at least as poor as some of the dross in that squad - indeed, we may have done better.

LM is not 100% responsible for those decisions and should not get 100% of the blame. Sadly football never works that way, the people who were also party to those decisions will remain long after he has gone.

 

[Arabmariner]

Poor recruiting for V4 relative to other clubs

This.

We won the league and reached the GF and relaxed thinking it's all good when in fact we had struggled since the 5-4 Sydney game and won the league by the skin of our teeth.

We should have won it before the turn of the year after the start we had.

And that was before the loss of Tommy,Aloi$i,Viddy and Jedi.

 

[David Votoupal]

The club's over-cautious, overly conservative attitude to recruiting players has much to do with it. Sadly, the "no wanker policy" may also be part of the problem.

 

[Capn Gus Bloodbeard]

Christ, when you put it that way it really shows the class we've lost.

Just those 4 players are worth at least a team and a half....

 

[midfielder]

And that was before the loss of Tommy,Aloi$i,Vidi and Jedi.

I would add the non playing and signing as a last resort of... Grumpy  ... If Grumpy was not better center mid that some players who were carried by Jedi .... then I am a poor judge...

 

[David Votoupal]

Some people actually didn't want to believe me when I said Pondeljak was a big blow to lose and hard to replace.

 

[serious14]

Some people actually didn't want to believe me when I said Pondeljak was a big blow to lose and hard to replace.

The Tommy fan club is still alive and kicking (see our games against Melbourne last season) - it's just that others didn't realise how pivotal he was to the team until he was gone.

It's not uncommon knowledge that I consider him to be the best player this team has ever had, and losing him was a _huge_ blow that we have not yet recovered from.

 

[David Votoupal]

Even funnier was those who insisted Elrich would actually be a good signing. Ha!

 

[tuftman]

Even funnier was those who insisted Elrich would actually be a good signing. Ha!

Give him time man, after all, we've given Mrdja 4 years

 

[David Votoupal]

Give him time man, after all, we've given Mrdja 4 years

LOL! He set the world alight with the Phoenix, didn't he? ???