More relocation chat/brawling

[gull]

Great work by all above, thank you.

Last time I checked we were still called the CENTRAL COAST MARINERS. Our owner needs to check his geography, and history.

Suggested reading: anything on the Northern Eagles. Was a disaster waiting to happen, and so is this move.

 

[sydmariner]

Great work by all above, thank you.

Last time I checked we were still called the CENTRAL COAST MARINERS. Our owner needs to check his geography, and history.

Suggested reading: anything on the Northern Eagles. Was a disaster waiting to happen, and so is this move.

 

[midfielder]

$75k/match would make $975k/year.

We need 10K to break even ... say at $ 13.00 per head after GST [we have heaps of kids]...

10, 000 @ $ 13.00 is $ 130, 000..... so where does the money go... stadium hire, security, ... plus ? ? ?

I remember the Northern Spirit where paying I think 50K to play at NSO back in the 90's...

 

[bikinigirl]

. to continue my venting, ranting & raving ... i'd like to draw a couple of other thoughts together stretching back to the ownership shift earlier in the year (and some historical context):

• the gorman family put some money into the club initially ... but was not prepared to risk it all - or more (if there was any)
• turnbull came in and bankrolled things for a lot longer ... and quite possibly, nearly did lose it all
• charlesworth came in when things were getting difficult for turnbull ... all three apparently supporting the coe
• when things became desperate for turnbull earlier this year it was crunch time. charlesworth was only willing to chuck in more cash if he was guaranteed dictatorial control ... turnbull had it all to lose, gorman had nothing to gain (and resisted) ... publicly push came to shove
• gorman relented, turnbull eased out

. of course this is all supposition on my part, so could be complete bullshit. i had started to draft a whole 'reading between the lines' thing back then but the shift was finalised before i could post it so it seemed largely irrelevant. now i think it just adds a little context to the current discussion

 

[bikinigirl]

We need 10K to break even ... say at $ 13.00 per head after GST [we have heaps of kids]...

10, 000 @ $ 13.00 is $ 130, 000..... so where does the money go... stadium hire, security, ... plus ? ? ?

I remember the Northern Spirit where paying I think 50K to play at NSO back in the 90's...

. rightly or wrongly i had always assumed the 10,000 break-even point was for the club not just the match day

 

[midfielder]

A view from a poster I respect on a football forum …. The first was made in a reply to into football culture and expansion ….. the last bit of his post highlighted was about the Mariners … I then posted a query and he replied …. He makes uncanny sense … he then posted a third post as an afterthought …. this guy is a clever business person and has a deep knowledge of football ...


Original Post about expansion and culture...

""""The NPL addresses the structural issues that have plagued the development of football in this country in my lifetime. Seen as a long term game, the strategy is clear – establish an elite senior pro competition, then a youth development system, then structure the second tier and provide linkages for players and coaches to the elite tier.

This is a complex process, and we’ve had inevitable issues along the way, but seen from the ground zero of the last years of the NSL, it has been, overall, a very significant success.

The next step is controlled expansion by another two teams and the creation of club youth academies. The academies are starting to happen and I think within 5 years they will be standard at every A League club. Expansion is a long term game. We may see some movement leading into the next tv deal, but I suspect Wellington may fail before then. FFA will not save them, so expansion may be pre emptied by the funding of another Australian club. I have been a long term supporter of NZ inclusion in the A League because the competition needs the critical mass, but the Wellington experiment has been a failure. Auckland is, on every level, a better option, but history is against it.

I do, however, feel confident in making one prediction: within 3 years Central Coast Mariners will become Northern Sydney Mariners, provided the Nt Sydney council plays ball and upgrades the Oval to A League standard. The strategy will be this: play increasing numbers of games at Nth Sydney to establish a core fan base, then move most games to Nth Sydney, with some games at Bluetongue. Charlesworth is an ambitious man. He knows that the Mariners have hit their support glass ceiling – and it isn’t high enough.""""



I replied to his post regarding the Mariners move and he replied as follows…


"""""Have to differ, Mid. My reading is that there is much more to this than a bluff. This is testing the water as well as putting pressure on the Gosford Council.

To suggest that FFA won’t allow a team at North Sydney is an understandable reaction from a CCM supporter. But FFA will certainly be closely watching the NSO attendances and looking for indications that these are affecting SFC. If they don’t – and I don’t think they will – then it will be a clear signal that a Northern Sydney team is viable.

This 20% figure gets a lot of airtime, but its only 600 or so people, and they may well be from the Hornsby area. It means diddly squat in terms of a team based in North Sydney. To suggest that CCM has viable chance of pulling any significant numbers from anywhere much east of Hornsby is deeply unrealistic wishful thinking. The NSO initiative has nothing whatsoever to do with attracting new fans to Gosford. You can’t really have your cake and eat it too – if these fans aren’t attending SFC games and are ripe for the picking, as you seem to suggest, then this is in fact a compelling argument for the fact that a Northern Sydney team is indeed viable from an FFA perspective.

Don’t misunderstand me – I think CCM should stay at Bluetongue. But my crystal ball is suggesting Northern Sydney Mariners in 3-5 years."""""

His After-through

Mid, we both work in the commercial world. There is no “won’t”. You know that.

 

[bikinigirl]

Thank you for expanding my horizons here ... Probably reflecting my (far-)northern hemisphere upbringing, but my immediate thought was - "wtf is a jackfruit???"
A wikipedia search later, I now feel suitably enlightened

. it's all good so long as you don't 'come up smelling of rafflesia'

 

[localpom]

I am a simple man, but i think if MC shows a bit of "love" for the fans and for the region as a whole while trying to engage more support in a less aggressive manner it would be far more successful. I would like to see some in depth market research done on the population on the coast...maybe a website with some simple questions on why people don't go and what the reasons are. Transport? Money? Hate Soccer? Family Commitments? All that been said the reality is we still punch above our weight crowd wise and there is no way we would get bigger crowds in North Sydney.

 

[nebakke]

. it's all good so long as you don't 'come up smelling of rafflesia'

Christ! My brain can't take much more if this! ;-)

 

[scottmac]

A view from a poster I respect on a football forum …. The first was made in a reply to into football culture and expansion ….. the last bit of his post highlighted was about the Mariners … I then posted a query and he replied …. He makes uncanny sense … he then posted a third post as an afterthought …. this guy is a clever business person and has a deep knowledge of football ...


Original Post about expansion and culture...

""""The NPL addresses the structural issues that have plagued the development of football in this country in my lifetime. Seen as a long term game, the strategy is clear – establish an elite senior pro competition, then a youth development system, then structure the second tier and provide linkages for players and coaches to the elite tier.

This is a complex process, and we’ve had inevitable issues along the way, but seen from the ground zero of the last years of the NSL, it has been, overall, a very significant success.

The next step is controlled expansion by another two teams and the creation of club youth academies. The academies are starting to happen and I think within 5 years they will be standard at every A League club. Expansion is a long term game. We may see some movement leading into the next tv deal, but I suspect Wellington may fail before then. FFA will not save them, so expansion may be pre emptied by the funding of another Australian club. I have been a long term supporter of NZ inclusion in the A League because the competition needs the critical mass, but the Wellington experiment has been a failure. Auckland is, on every level, a better option, but history is against it.

I do, however, feel confident in making one prediction: within 3 years Central Coast Mariners will become Northern Sydney Mariners, provided the Nt Sydney council plays ball and upgrades the Oval to A League standard. The strategy will be this: play increasing numbers of games at Nth Sydney to establish a core fan base, then move most games to Nth Sydney, with some games at Bluetongue. Charlesworth is an ambitious man. He knows that the Mariners have hit their support glass ceiling – and it isn’t high enough.""""



I replied to his post regarding the Mariners move and he replied as follows…


"""""Have to differ, Mid. My reading is that there is much more to this than a bluff. This is testing the water as well as putting pressure on the Gosford Council.

To suggest that FFA won’t allow a team at North Sydney is an understandable reaction from a CCM supporter. But FFA will certainly be closely watching the NSO attendances and looking for indications that these are affecting SFC. If they don’t – and I don’t think they will – then it will be a clear signal that a Northern Sydney team is viable.

This 20% figure gets a lot of airtime, but its only 600 or so people, and they may well be from the Hornsby area. It means diddly squat in terms of a team based in North Sydney. To suggest that CCM has viable chance of pulling any significant numbers from anywhere much east of Hornsby is deeply unrealistic wishful thinking. The NSO initiative has nothing whatsoever to do with attracting new fans to Gosford. You can’t really have your cake and eat it too – if these fans aren’t attending SFC games and are ripe for the picking, as you seem to suggest, then this is in fact a compelling argument for the fact that a Northern Sydney team is indeed viable from an FFA perspective.

Don’t misunderstand me – I think CCM should stay at Bluetongue. But my crystal ball is suggesting Northern Sydney Mariners in 3-5 years."""""

His After-through

Mid, we both work in the commercial world. There is no “won’t”. You know that.

I don't buy into that.
SFC crowds not being affected is a clear indication that a north Sydney team is viable? I'd say you've left a very important part of that quote out.
There seems to be a running history across all codes in regards to teams leaving areas. For anyone to suggest that relocating a team for a few "successful", "regional" matches indicates viability of a new entity or a relocated entity (which brings with it an initial negative stigma) screams of extreme optimism.
If MC is serious about another area being the saviour of the club, he'd be stupid to think north Sydney was his answer. Then again he is a dick so maybe... ... .. ...

 

[Big Al]

telegraph quotes 3,000 fans as break even for NSO tonight. Huge difference to 10,000 at the bluetongue

A lot of press about the game - At least one story from all media/news sources

We could easily play the Wellington game at NSO every year but we could also play our Champions league games there. Cheaper to run & a lot of coasties work in the city plus would be easier for the asian communities to attend if there heritage is the opposition.

I am already needing a fix of the bluetongue - 24 days between home matches is hard to take

 

[Big Al]

Was the spirit affected by the NSL or there own problems or both? The A-League was created to rid the game of NSL related issues.

The spirit attracted large crowds when football was nowhere near as main stream as it is now. Fox sports, media outlets running stories etc. The interest created by WSW, Del Piero, world cups & FTA TV etc. This is probably what has MC trying to attract the north sydney dollar.

 

[scottmac]

telegraph quotes 3,000 fans as break even for NSO tonight. Huge difference to 10,000 at the bluetongue

A lot of press about the game - At least one story from all media/news sources

We could easily play the Wellington game at NSO every year but we could also play our Champions league games there. Cheaper to run & a lot of coasties work in the city plus would be easier for the asian communities to attend if there heritage is the opposition.

I am already needing a fix of the bluetongue - 24 days between home matches is hard to take

No we couldn't play ACL there due to stringent regulations regarding the stadium itself. It doesn't comply. By a long shot

 

[scottmac]

North Sydney as it is now will never house an a-league team. NEVER. They would need to upgrade substantially. If they did then the figures of break even that everyone is talking about would go the way of the dodo.

 

[sydmariner]

A view from a poster I respect on a football forum …. The first was made in a reply to into football culture and expansion ….. the last bit of his post highlighted was about the Mariners … I then posted a query and he replied …. He makes uncanny sense … he then posted a third post as an afterthought …. this guy is a clever business person and has a deep knowledge of football ...


Original Post about expansion and culture...

""""The NPL addresses the structural issues that have plagued the development of football in this country in my lifetime. Seen as a long term game, the strategy is clear – establish an elite senior pro competition, then a youth development system, then structure the second tier and provide linkages for players and coaches to the elite tier.

This is a complex process, and we’ve had inevitable issues along the way, but seen from the ground zero of the last years of the NSL, it has been, overall, a very significant success.

The next step is controlled expansion by another two teams and the creation of club youth academies. The academies are starting to happen and I think within 5 years they will be standard at every A League club. Expansion is a long term game. We may see some movement leading into the next tv deal, but I suspect Wellington may fail before then. FFA will not save them, so expansion may be pre emptied by the funding of another Australian club. I have been a long term supporter of NZ inclusion in the A League because the competition needs the critical mass, but the Wellington experiment has been a failure. Auckland is, on every level, a better option, but history is against it.

I do, however, feel confident in making one prediction: within 3 years Central Coast Mariners will become Northern Sydney Mariners, provided the Nt Sydney council plays ball and upgrades the Oval to A League standard. The strategy will be this: play increasing numbers of games at Nth Sydney to establish a core fan base, then move most games to Nth Sydney, with some games at Bluetongue. Charlesworth is an ambitious man. He knows that the Mariners have hit their support glass ceiling – and it isn’t high enough.""""



I replied to his post regarding the Mariners move and he replied as follows…


"""""Have to differ, Mid. My reading is that there is much more to this than a bluff. This is testing the water as well as putting pressure on the Gosford Council.

To suggest that FFA won’t allow a team at North Sydney is an understandable reaction from a CCM supporter. But FFA will certainly be closely watching the NSO attendances and looking for indications that these are affecting SFC. If they don’t – and I don’t think they will – then it will be a clear signal that a Northern Sydney team is viable.

This 20% figure gets a lot of airtime, but its only 600 or so people, and they may well be from the Hornsby area. It means diddly squat in terms of a team based in North Sydney. To suggest that CCM has viable chance of pulling any significant numbers from anywhere much east of Hornsby is deeply unrealistic wishful thinking. The NSO initiative has nothing whatsoever to do with attracting new fans to Gosford. You can’t really have your cake and eat it too – if these fans aren’t attending SFC games and are ripe for the picking, as you seem to suggest, then this is in fact a compelling argument for the fact that a Northern Sydney team is indeed viable from an FFA perspective.

Don’t misunderstand me – I think CCM should stay at Bluetongue. But my crystal ball is suggesting Northern Sydney Mariners in 3-5 years."""""

His After-through

Mid, we both work in the commercial world. There is no “won’t”. You know that.

 

[adz]

He knows that the Mariners have hit their support glass ceiling

I don't believe this bit at all.

 

[dibo]

We need 10K to break even ... say at $ 13.00 per head after GST [we have heaps of kids]...

10, 000 @ $ 13.00 is $ 130, 000..... so where does the money go... stadium hire, security, ... plus ? ? ?

I remember the Northern Spirit where paying I think 50K to play at NSO back in the 90's...

The average ticket price is well above $13, the $7.50 is the cut the club needs to allocate to the venue.

 

[dibo]

I don't believe this bit at all.

Ditto. I wouldn't mind a link to those posts so I can read more of what the person's saying - I'll then be able to see if they're a dickhead or not.

On the basis of what I'm reading, my money's firmly on "yes", and I've got extras on "he might think he knows business but he's got bugger all idea about the social and physical geography of the area".

 

[Einstein]

I have a tendency to think that MC is perhaps one of those that thinks The Central Coast could never support a team, no matter how successful on the park. We are probably more of an expansion or Community area, in his eyes.

 

[adz]

Ditto. I wouldn't mind a link to those posts so I can read more of what the person's saying - I'll then be able to see if they're a dickhead or not.

On the basis of what I'm reading, my money's firmly on "yes", and I've got extras on "he might think he knows business but he's got bugger all idea about the social and physical geography of the area".

Sounds like the typical shit you read on the WSW forums, bagging us for not having any fans, but trying to use fancy words to do it.
Fail.