McKINNA OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[dibo]

The coaching resources (including national curricula) and the National Development Plan are publicly available.

A-League clubs are in the process of setting up their own development programs that will work to the national curriculum. State clubs are (with some cajoling) moving in the same direction.

Having a coherent plan for the development of coaches and juniors is something we've never had before. The ASF/SA/FFA have never until now had the moral or political authority (for want of better terms) to actually implement these things.

Football is being looked at in a top to bottom way. Talent identification is intended to work from a much earlier age, and the development programs mean the kids have a program to go on with and be basically hothoused with other talented kids. Institutes/Academies/YPL > NYL > HAL...

This top to bottom structure does more than simply hiring a few coaches for HAL clubs could ever do. But of course the impatient ones dreaming of teams to compete with the the cream overseas want a fix now.

You're not going to see players who've gone through this program from grassroots level to the elite for another 10 years when they start hitting the NYL. But the benefits for kids who are getting exposure now will gradually show over the intervening years. It's the quality and coherent development that these kids are getting that so many of the current crop of HAL players missed out on - that's why the quality's still down, and that's why it won't rise in a hurry. From little things...

This is hardly protectionist, if it were we'd be protecting the cottage industry development programs by the tinpot dictators of the state federations. Instead we're sweeping that aside and developing a real development program that works from kids to Socceroos.

 

[David Votoupal]

I'm more talking of the A-League and the idea of bringing in coaches from abroad of high calibre that would not only improve the level of play but just as significant raise the profile of the league abroad as well as its standing with longtime football fans here.

 

[dibo]

I'm more talking of the A-League and the idea of bringing in coaches from abroad of high calibre that would not only improve the level of play but just as significant raise the profile of the league abroad as well as its standing with longtime football fans here.

Hate to break it to you, but many 'longtime football fans' here would neither know nor care about the names you've been spruiking here. The names you're spruiking (if they're worth a buck at all) are going to be worth many bucks. Do you see us competing with petrodollars and whatever else in the rest of Asia? Names don't come cheap.

In an environment where bums on seats and viewers on tv are king, clubs aren't going to spunk squillions in order to pander to tiny numbers of afficionados either. If there's one thing we know for sure about the FFA and HAL, it's that standing with longtime football fans (i.e. the ones there were never enough of to keep the NSL going) is the last thing they're worried about.

Instead of gambling on a return today from some mercenary with a whiteboard, I'd rather clubs and the FFA invest in development and build a return for tomorrow.

 

[RobC]

It is a worry that we are just providing entertainment for Serious. That is reason enough to stop now.

You sir, are an idiot.  If that's what you took from that quote/post, then you need to learn how to read and analyse a lot better than you're doing now.

And you sir, a fool.

Ursus I'm your #1 fan!

 

[David Votoupal]

Hate to break it to you, but many 'longtime football fans' here would neither know nor care about the names you've been spruiking here. The names you're spruiking (if they're worth a buck at all) are going to be worth many bucks. Do you see us competing with petrodollars and whatever else in the rest of Asia? Names don't come cheap.

Names I've mentioned are managers who've done well in the Championship, Serie A, Primera Liga, Ligue 1, even Norway and Sweden as well as European competition. All VERY tough environments in any cases, and they still got results (like thrashings of Barcelona). They wouldn't be "unknown" to those who followed European football for any amount of time.

In an environment where bums on seats and viewers on tv are king, clubs aren't going to spunk squillions in order to pander to tiny numbers of afficionados either. If there's one thing we know for sure about the FFA and HAL, it's that standing with longtime football fans (i.e. the ones there were never enough of to keep the NSL going) is the last thing they're worried about.

Heh... I may be a longtime football supporter but was never an NSL supporter although I was well aware of and kept an eye on the league.

Instead of gambling on a return today from some mercenary with a whiteboard, I'd rather clubs and the FFA invest in development and build a return for tomorrow.

All well, but isn't recruiting said coaches also part of that development?

 

[dibo]

Hate to break it to you, but many 'longtime football fans' here would neither know nor care about the names you've been spruiking here. The names you're spruiking (if they're worth a buck at all) are going to be worth many bucks. Do you see us competing with petrodollars and whatever else in the rest of Asia? Names don't come cheap.

Names I've mentioned are managers who've done well in the Championship, Serie A, Primera Liga, Ligue 1, even Norway and Sweden as well as European competition. All VERY tough environments in any cases, and they still got results (like thrashings of Barcelona). They wouldn't be "unknown" to those who followed European football for any amount of time.

So... they'll be expensive then. One-off wins over the likes of Barca are great. Doesn't make someone worth a helluva large paycheque on a hope and prayer that they'll do well here.

Instead of gambling on a return today from some mercenary with a whiteboard, I'd rather clubs and the FFA invest in development and build a return for tomorrow.

All well, but isn't recruiting said coaches also part of that development?

As I just argued, it shouldn't be a priority. I'd rather see the wads of cash pushed into academies and such. If you read the national development plan, there's nothing that says "...and hire expensive overseas coaches so football snobs can feel less icky about coming to games." In fact, the words "overseas", "marquee" and "foreign" don't come up once.

 

[FFC Mariner]

It is a worry that we are just providing entertainment for Serious. That is reason enough to stop now.

You sir, are an idiot.  If that's what you took from that quote/post, then you need to learn how to read and analyse a lot better than you're doing now.

And you sir, a fool.

Ursus I'm your #1 fan!

Have I wandered into some weird adaptation of waiting for Godot?

 

[brett]

In fact, the words "overseas", "marquee" and "foreign" don't come up once.

Are you sure you weren't reading the Wikipedia for Mariners season 08/09?

 

[dibo]

In fact, the words "overseas", "marquee" and "foreign" don't come up once.

Are you sure you weren't reading the Wikipedia for Mariners season 08/09?

He made a funny.

 

[serious14]

It is a worry that we are just providing entertainment for Serious. That is reason enough to stop now.

You sir, are an idiot.  If that's what you took from that quote/post, then you need to learn how to read and analyse a lot better than you're doing now.

And you sir, a fool.

Ursus I'm your #1 fan!

Have I wandered into some weird adaptation of waiting for Godot?

Whoa - solid argument there Ursus (as always).  Take a bow.

 

[serious14]

I gotta say I disagree that we've been successful in the past with the long ball tactics and such - the single best period of play I have ever seen us engage in was for a 20 minute period against Sydney in Round 1 of Version 3.  There was the occasional chip, but never a 'hoof and hope'.  Every pass had purpose, every player was moving off the ball, there was a lot of one touch and balls into space, etc. and so forth.

Aside from Tommy, Jedi, and Sasho no longer being here and Gumps not starting, is there really that much difference in personnel between that night and last night that we can't engage in the same thing??  (some, me amongst them, although I'm trying to meet the "we're great" arguers halfway here, will argue that yes indeed, the losses of Tommy and Jedi were that important) 

Why can't we play like that a lot more??    We _embarassed_ Sydney in that first half, and not only was it easy on the eye, but it was SMART football.  We found gaps with consumate ease, we played with width, and we played with pace.  Not to mention, it was POURING rain.

We all know that we've done it before - what's to stop us from doing it again??

 

[tuftman]

I gotta say I disagree that we've been successful in the past with the long ball tactics and such - the single best period of play I have ever seen us engage in was for a 20 minute period against Sydney in Round 1 of Version 3.  There was the occasional chip, but never a 'hoof and hope'.  Every pass had purpose, every player was moving off the ball, there was a lot of one touch and balls into space, etc. and so forth.

Aside from Tommy, Jedi, and Sasho no longer being here and Gumps not starting, is there really that much difference in personnel between that night and last night that we can't engage in the same thing??  (some, me amongst them, although I'm trying to meet the "we're great" arguers halfway here, will argue that yes indeed, the losses of Tommy and Jedi were that important) 

Why can't we play like that a lot more??    We _embarassed_ Sydney in that first half, and not only was it easy on the eye, but it was SMART football.  We found gaps with consumate ease, we played with width, and we played with pace.  Not to mention, it was POURING rain.

We all know that we've done it before - what's to stop us from doing it again??

Lawrie??

 

[serious14]

 

[David Votoupal]

So... they'll be expensive then. One-off wins over the likes of Barca are great. Doesn't make someone worth a helluva large paycheque on a hope and prayer that they'll do well here.

I should also add that a few more coaches aren't exactly huge or household names but have been proven to do the job and would be infinitely better than the ones we've had come here. Three overseas coaches who have come here were well-known as players but had long proven to be lousy coaches before (and in some cases after) they were here.

As I just argued, it shouldn't be a priority. I'd rather see the wads of cash pushed into academies and such. If you read the national development plan, there's nothing that says "...and hire expensive overseas coaches so football snobs can feel less icky about coming to games." In fact, the words "overseas", "marquee" and "foreign" don't come up once.

One of the things that can be done at A-League level is extracting more out of players already there, or getting them to play to a whole new level or at least differently to what's been done so far. That's what some of these coaches would do. The influence it can leave on players, right down to junior level, surely can't be underestimated?

 

[Paolo]

i think we should be investing more money for better half time entertainment for the kiddies

 

[hasbeen]

Fully funded junior rep sides would be a start, and that includes rego, travel etc... (corporate sponsors out there?) . I know of bags of really talented kids whose parents shun the idea of rep football simply because of the cost involved.

 

[Wombat]

7 loses and 1 draw out of our last 8 games spells...PROBLEM.

Captain f**king obvious strikes again! Obviously its a problem, and one the players and coach are trying to fix, hence the much better performance last night (better than the 7 games before it, surely nobody can argue with that?)

Appalling style of long ball Football....PROBLEM.

Thats you opinion. Were you complaining that its an appalling style of long ball football before this year, you know, when we were doing really well with the same or similar tactics? Cos I dont remember you complaining about it before then. Hmm

Inability to string more than 2 passes together...PROBLEM.

Pathetic comments like that is what makes this place, well, pathetic sometimes. Im pretty sure, and im going out on a limb here, that we strung more than 2 passes together last night at some stage, and even made it look good at times

Ill sit here and say we were not the best last night, in fact we were far far from how good I know we can be, but we improved on our last 3 months play, and as a fan thats what I want out of my team when they are in a slump. Those expecting us to play at our peak 100% of the time have been watching to much overseas football, and are forgetting how young our league is imo

They say ignorance is bliss....so you must be a very very happy man!

If its so obvious why does it take 3 or 4 honest people to brook the subject here while everyone else buries their collective heads up Lawrie's arse.

We are all Mariners fans so i'm not going to go into one and will wish you well with your "rose coloured" opinions.

I'll try and stay postive until the next game and the POSITIVES are:

1. Vukovic looks like he's ready to re-establish himself as Oz's number 1 domestic custodian.

2.  Defence looked more solid.

3.  Wilko was better.

4. Boogs is back and fit.

5. Huke has potential.

6. Elrich will have a massive season if he stays fit....you heard it here first.

7. Osman is leaving.


God Bless.

 

[jaypee]

7 loses and 1 draw out of our last 8 games spells...PROBLEM.

Captain f**king obvious strikes again! Obviously its a problem, and one the players and coach are trying to fix, hence the much better performance last night (better than the 7 games before it, surely nobody can argue with that?)

Appalling style of long ball Football....PROBLEM.

Thats you opinion. Were you complaining that its an appalling style of long ball football before this year, you know, when we were doing really well with the same or similar tactics? Cos I dont remember you complaining about it before then. Hmm

Inability to string more than 2 passes together...PROBLEM.

Pathetic comments like that is what makes this place, well, pathetic sometimes. Im pretty sure, and im going out on a limb here, that we strung more than 2 passes together last night at some stage, and even made it look good at times

Ill sit here and say we were not the best last night, in fact we were far far from how good I know we can be, but we improved on our last 3 months play, and as a fan thats what I want out of my team when they are in a slump. Those expecting us to play at our peak 100% of the time have been watching to much overseas football, and are forgetting how young our league is imo

They say ignorance is bliss....so you must be a very very happy man!

If its so obvious why does it take 3 or 4 honest people to brook the subject here while everyone else buries their collective heads up Lawrie's arse.

We are all Mariners fans so i'm not going to go into one and will wish you well with your "rose coloured" opinions.

I'll try and stay postive until the next game and the POSITIVES are:

1. Vukovic looks like he's ready to re-establish himself as Oz's number 1 domestic custodian.

2.  Defence looked more solid.

3.  Wilko was better.

4. Boogs is back and fit.

5. Huke has potential.

6. Elrich will have a massive season if he stays fit....you heard it here first.

7. Osman is leaving.


God Bless.

Not sure Osman leaving is a positive to be honest.....

The other points I have no issue with.... Osman has been one of our better players and in fact is one of our only players that shows a decent first touch.....

 

[Wombat]

Jaypee,

He does have a decent first touch but he just doesn't achieve anything.  Even bullocking fullbacks like Heff and Pedj create more openings when they drive forward.

Technically very proficient but maybe he just lacks confidence to take players on and attack goal.

 

[woodchuck]

LM has in the past had the team playing OK football, but certain decisions seem really baffling to me.  Caceras - our only genuine ball player who runs at defence, sure he is out of form a bit, but wouldn't you persist with somone of his talent ?  As soon as he was brought on the tempo lifted.  And what was the point of giving AE 6 mins, he only touched the ball twice, would of done worse for his confidence than good.(after one of his touches which he kicked the ball out over the sideline). 

Why is it that all managers around the world have a number two? 

If we don't bring in some talent and open up the purse strings with a number two included (asst manager), that clueless dribble we were dished up the other night, is all we'll get.