Is it time for wholesale change at CCM

[FFC Mariner]

I expect there will be some debate over this sort of thing over the next few days/weeks/months and as this is a forum, what do people think?

Reports from CCLC tonight and texts from the away support would indicate some disquiet so are the natives restless?

Personally, I would take the end of this season as an opportunity to have a player clear out and I would be quite savage (knowing that it could lead to a shaky V5 but hopefully set us up for the future)

Clarkie (coaching role)
Stringers
Mrdja
Saso (age based - no other reason he is a good player)
Owens (get fit or just f**k off)
Ossie (going anyway)
Gumps (age based, not part of our future going forward)

Build a side around:

Danny Wilko Boogs Porter Caceres Dylan & Matty

Jury out on:

Heff Bojic Hutcho

Alternatively, do we give Tobin a go at head coach and kick Lawrie upstairs?

 

[tuftman]

I expect there will be some debate over this sort of thing over the next few days/weeks/months and as this is a forum, what do people think?

Reports from CCLC tonight and texts from the away support would indicate some disquiet so are the natives restless?

Personally, I would take the end of this season as an opportunity to have a player clear out and I would be quite savage (knowing that it could lead to a shaky V5 but hopefully set us up for the future)

Clarkie (coaching role)
Stringers
Mrdja
Saso (age based - no other reason he is a good player)
Owens (get fit or just f**k off)
Ossie (going anyway)
Gumps (age based, not part of our future going forward)

Build a side around:

Danny Wilko Boogs Porter Caceres Dylan & Matty

Jury out on:

Heff Bojic Hutcho

Alternatively, do we give Tobin a go at head coach and kick Lawrie upstairs?

I mostly agree, except with the jury being out on Bojic, I think he is a good player.

 

[serious14]

Options 2 and 3 really - anyone who says otherwise is living in a fantasy land (or, in true Hutcho style, really really far up Lawrie's arse).

There is far too much deadwood on the playing roster, and it is really doing the club a major disservice.  Not at all helped by a stale (perfect word for it) and predictable tactical approach that actively discourages flair and creativity, and is entirely reactive to the world around it, and not at all pro-active in a manner that can help us be a dominant force in this league.

I fear it will take us being slaughtered in Asia for those in a position to do something about it to react.  A damn shame really, I'd like our inaugural Asian campaign to be a memorable one...... for the right reasons.

 

[Rowdy]

There is far too much deadwood on the playing roster, and it is really doing the club a major disservice. 

Couple this point with, what I believe is an EXTREMELY! important issue that a lot of people seem not to have noticed this season and needs to be rectified at the end of the season, that is:

The Mariners are the ONLY A-League team NOT to have used ANY of their National Youth League players in the HAL this season AT ALL!
(Wellington don't have a NYL side, and I don't count the use of our Keepers as they are signed for the purpose of reserves to Danny)


Not 1 of our YL players have even made the bench this season let alone out onto the pitch!


WHY?

Sydney, Newcastle and Qld have all used MANY of theirs, and quite a few have earned starting spots in the senior team, (NU) Kantorovski, Jesic , (AU) Mullens Barbieri, (SYD) Gann, Golec, Rooney-signed by the Scum, (QLD) Nichols, Oar, Minniecon (GLOR) Skorich off the bench.

Lawrie talks about the 'depth of our squad', but compare it numbers wise with what other clubs have put out on the park and it doesn't stack up. Yes you could argue that the Scum & perhaps Sydney, who have prob used more than any others, are shit teams and are 'scraping the barrel' so to speak, but at least some of their kid's have been up to it imo, whereas were not in the race.

Look at Gold Coast signing Taj Minniecon as their NYL Marquee on a 3 year deal, what a buy regardless of the $$'s they spent to get him, he carved us a new one last week and that's one extra player you def can add to your senior squad that's outside the cap.

Interested in others opins on this 

 

[FFC Mariner]

Having seen our home NYL games, even the most optimistic supporter would admit that our youth development "needs some work"

 

[dub]

I expect there will be some debate over this sort of thing over the next few days/weeks/months and as this is a forum, what do people think?

Reports from CCLC tonight and texts from the away support would indicate some disquiet so are the natives restless?

Personally, I would take the end of this season as an opportunity to have a player clear out and I would be quite savage (knowing that it could lead to a shaky V5 but hopefully set us up for the future)

Clarkie (coaching role)
Stringers
Mrdja
Saso (age based - no other reason he is a good player)
Owens (get fit or just f**k off)
Ossie (going anyway)
Gumps (age based, not part of our future going forward)

Build a side around:

Danny Wilko Boogs Porter Caceres Dylan & Matty

Jury out on:

Heff Bojic Hutcho

Alternatively, do we give Tobin a go at head coach and kick Lawrie upstairs?


Is lowrie lost since Ian left this is saying something

 

[Auburn Mariner]

Well, what an interesting thread this is (and will be).

Judging by the squad that GCU are putting together, I suggest that the League will improve next year, instead of the slight drop in standards predicted by many.

It's a given that we will recruit for the ACL.

But for HAL V5, let's have a look:

Greenpole & Rowdy make valid points. It is very difficult to argue with their logic, although I also think that Bojic is good value.

Heffernan is clearly still not 100% after that bloody broken leg, damn you Talay. Hutchinson, I actually think he has improved in recent weeks and I would stick by him.

The nucleus that is suggested by Greenpole is young and could be our core group for some years. Some of our veterans are getting exposed by young colts like Minniecon, it may well be time to perform a clean-out, recruit some young blokes, LOOK at a marquee and rebuild our team over the next few years.

It is no coincidence that the better teams in V4 have quality imports. We should not have missed out on Charlie Miller, and it is NOW time to send quality scouts to Great Britain & Latin  America. We could do well with a hard-nosed British Isles professional (preferably with a Mancunian or indecipherable Glaswegian accent) doing the hard work at DM, and creative left & right-sided players who happen to speak Spanish or Portugese as their first language.

I ask this of the many of you that know FAR more about football than I do, would Mile Sterjovski be a good option for our club?

Within the HAL, one wonders if John McCain wishes to leave the windy city? Also, could management make a serious offer to Vaughn Coveny to join our coaching staff?

One thing I would note; we are still a very good chance of making the four with our current squad. Things are not all grim, on and off the park.

 

[dub]

Well, what an interesting thread this is (and will be).

Judging by the squad that GCU are putting together, I suggest that the League will improve next year, instead of the slight drop in standards predicted by many.

It's a given that we will recruit for the ACL.

But for HAL V5, let's have a look:

Greenpole & Rowdy make valid points. It is very difficult to argue with their logic, although I also think that Bojic is good value.

Heffernan is clearly still not 100% after that bloody broken leg, damn you Talay. Hutchinson, I actually think he has improved in recent weeks and I would stick by him.

The nucleus that is suggested by Greenpole is young and could be our core group for some years. Some of our veterans are getting exposed by young colts like Minniecon, it may well be time to perform a clean-out, recruit some young blokes, LOOK at a marquee and rebuild our team over the next few years.

It is no coincidence that the better teams in V4 have quality imports. We should not have missed out on Charlie Miller, and it is NOW time to send quality scouts to Great Britain & Latin  America. We could do well with a hard-nosed British Isles professional (preferably with a Mancunian or indecipherable Glaswegian accent) doing the hard work at DM, and creative left & right-sided players who happen to speak Spanish or Portugese as their first language.

I ask this of the many of you that know FAR more about football than I do, would Mile Sterjovski be a good option for our club?

Within the HAL, one wonders if John McCain wishes to leave the windy city? Also, could management make a serious offer to Vaughn Coveny to join our coaching staff?

One thing I would note; we are still a very good chance of making the four with our current squad. Things are not all grim, on and off the park.

Not Vaughn get Bozza

 

[northernspirit]

We need to get rid of the deadwood, question is who is out of contract at the end of the season?

In regards to the ACL, i heard players have to be registered by the end of January and i havent heard anything on any signings - if we sign noone for the ACL we are going to get absoluletly smashed, and yes the standard of the a-league will be higher next season so if we dont recruit some better defenders and a creative mid and replacement for Jedi then we will be a mid table side next year and unlikely to make the top 4 given the strength of Adelaide, Melbourne, GCU and Queensland - with other teams likely to improve their squads, hell look at perth lately, they are a good team and if they didnt have such a rotten start to this season theyd be in the top 4 themselves.

Another point on recruitment, in my experience ive never seen anything come of these "sister club" relationships - didnt work at Northern Spirit, hasnt provided anything for Perth Glory with theirs and im not convinced anything will come out of it for us with Sheff Utd and Chengdu Blades/Dubai Blades. It annoys me reading stories about our management saying "we are hopeful rather than realistic about signing David Carney" - well then stop farking about with someone who isnt going to come here and look for someone ourselves, Africa is a place we should be scouting asap - we could get players cheap and they have the technical skills we so badly need. And im not saying signing by watching a DVD either, send some staff over there to assess players and we can uncover our own Carlos Hernandez or Diego. There just isnt these type of players in Australia and we need to stop being so afraid to look overseas.

We are in grave danger of slipping away and becoming a mediocre side, its not too late to avoid this but it is going to require some tough decisions from management and theyre going to have to put personal feelings aside, just because someone is a really nice guy doesnt mean he is the best fit for the squad.

Finally, in order for us to continue to build the club and encourage bigger crowds we need to play less predictable football and play with more flair (something LM seems to clamp down on), only Caceres has this ability in our squad, he is a good player but goes missing after 60+ minutes quite often so another player like him should be a priority so that our hoof and hope tactic which we have used lately can be relegated to the rubbish bin.

Season 5 could be a very long one and Asia could be over before we know it, dark storm clouds are approaching, hopefully we prepare for it otherwise we'll potentially be swept up in it.

 

[FFC Mariner]

Put it another way, who out of last nights side would start for any of the other 3 sides in the top 4?

 

[dibo]

we've made a good fist of four consecutive seasons on the back of steady management and avoiding change for change's sake. because of that, i get the feeling that making a bunch of changes without having clear ideas of how we might improve matters is not going to happen.

if you're wondering why we (and every other club in the league) has a bunch of pretty ordinary players floating around on the list you need to look at the salary cap. if we're going to ditch players, we need to find better players for the same or less money.

if there are better ideas for management, fire away too.

 

[northernspirit]

Put it another way, who out of last nights side would start for any of the other 3 sides in the top 4?

not much is there, thing is they all have quality imports - we have none

 

[pommypete]

We go back to 4-4-f**kin 2,i think we will see a vast improvement in a lot of players form.I think hutcho is too light weight,but in the middle of a 4 man midfield he goes ok. The left & right backs need the cover of a left & right midfielder.3 up front doesn't work,they are all central strikers and get in each others way.4-4-f**kin 2 againdt Adeleide and we will go into the finals on the back of a great win full of confidence.Looking forward to the grand final in Melbourne already.

 

[Costar]

Time to have a cleanout and possibly forget about V5.  Begin the building process and plan long-term. 

Forget Europe (I'm sick to death hearing about how good it is - yeah we know).  Our future isn't there.  Let's look to Asia, the Middle East and possibly Africa.  These are the yet to be untapped resources.  Be ruthless, sign them for a year do the job or f**k them off.

Time to get a quality marquee player.  I see that as a major difference between us and the rest of the top teams in the a-league.  Open that cheque book and get the icing on the cake.  Someone who can whip out that bit of brilliance, inspire the rest of the boys and get some confidence happening.

Set some bench-mark standards.  Especially in speed.  We are woefully lacking in this department.  Sure we've got a few with toe, but where we need it in the backline we fall down.  Set a standard and have the players meet it.  If they don't give someone who can a go.  The same can be said for hitting the ball on target.  God I'm sick of crap attempts that go sailing over the bar because we can't get over the ball and keep it down.  Oh and be able to strike with power off both feet.  Most players have a preferred option but that shouldn't rule your decisions.  If you're a leftie (not referring to anyone in particular) be able and willing to strike with your right.

Create a youth team that can back up.  If as people are saying they are not ready yet to step up, then someone needs to work out why not.  Are the coaches up to it.  Are management doing the right thing - did they recruit properly?  Are the players doing the right thing?

I think we've got the players to cope.  But coping isn't going to lead to the success we all want.  We need to be setting the standard, and if anyone isn't meeting it then put a program in place to get them up to the standard or let them loose.  This is professional sport and tough decisions have to be made.  Let's get through the ACL and then start long-term planning.

It's going to be interesting reading this thread over the coming months.  I'd love to hear Lawrie's thoughts though.

 

[scottmac]

we've made a good fist of four consecutive seasons on the back of steady management and avoiding change for change's sake. because of that, i get the feeling that making a bunch of changes without having clear ideas of how we might improve matters is not going to happen.

if you're wondering why we (and every other club in the league) has a bunch of pretty ordinary players floating around on the list you need to look at the salary cap. if we're going to ditch players, we need to find better players for the same or less money.

if there are better ideas for management, fire away too.

+1

Charlie Millers signing would have made a huge difference to this season and if elrich didn't cop that knee blow out our midfield would have been elrich, miller, jedinak, caceras. This would have kept everyones fav hutch on the bench untill now and i believe we would have got more from our drawn games.

This season's plan was to cross the ball in more than any other team to dmac, simon and petrovski, and we found ourselves with only 1 decent crosser of the ball in porter (and even he left a lot to be desired at times) who played most of the season at RB.

Even if we do not make the finals this season would not be worse that V2. LM is struggling trying to play the shape which brought our mid season success without a decent backline or midfield. We need to find at least 4 more likely 5 players for these areas.

A strong CB and a quick RB, a DM the likes of Jedi, a AM for marquee player and another CB or midfielder. If we can add at least 3 or 4 of these then we should be well set for V5.

As for Asia? I can not see us making any signings before the end of Jan. Smells like Everton, no talk, no action, no signings which will result in panic buying right at the death. I hope this is not the case and the club come out with some left field signings preferably not from SU.

 

[Razorback]

Great thread GP!!! Everyone has made interesting points and no of them should ignored (except the Bojic suggestion). I think recruitment is the one area which needs to be addressed asap! There is so much dead wood at this club and really a concern... Coaching, defence, youth development, midfield... Where do you start?

 

[FFC Mariner]

Management are ALWAYS responsible for the outcomes. Employers tend to blame staff but they only execute the strategy from above and if they arent doing the job, its the hiring/management process that failed.

(starts to whistle the red flag)

 

[brett]

Kudos to everyone for fair and well thought out posts thus far.

I think we should remember that at the start of the season most people here predicted a finish around 4th or 5th. We had a boom year last year, and so did the Jets. In the A-League almost every boom team has dropped down in the following season, but if we've only dropped to 4th, that's better than Melb V3, Jets V4, CCM V2, and arguably SFC V2 even though they made the four that year.

This season there are three great teams, and we're the best of the rest. Last season we were building up nicely, and signed Aloisi right at the right time to ignite our season and push us on to the Premiership and the Grand Final. This season we've lost our best player right at the wrong time, and we're not on the same park as Adelaide, MV and Qld for quality. We're fizzling out rather than kicking on.

Looking back to our previous cyclical trough, Lawrie made the hard decisions at the end of V2 and let go of Spenny and Sully, two of his favourites previously. You could see that happening again. I think GP is close to spot on with his picks for a freshening up of the squad this time.

As for youth league - the CCM is in a tough position with this. We've got the smallest pool to chose talent from. SFC gets to choose the cream of the talent from Sydney, and we get a mix of the leftovers from down there and the best of the Coast. But it's worth noting that many of the clubs who were forced to choose youngsters, by necessity rather than choice, found that the young guys swam rather than sunk. It would be worth trying the odd guy off the bench in future.

 

[Bear]

Options 4 and 2, if I could pick both

4, because I know what we are capable of with the current squad, but 2 because id like to see some player changes, which to be fair is going to happen anyway

Some, meaning benching Wilko and Hutch for a while, and get some quality to replace the ones we will lose in off season and before v5

We must search overseas imo. A lot of A-league players are capable of stepping up to Championship level, so why dont we try and bring some the other way? Players like Sun Jihai, Rob Hulse, Jon Stead, Lee Croft and Steve Kabba for example, could imo add so much to our league, and would not cost the world to bring down under

 

[dibo]

Options 4 and 2, if I could pick both

4, because I know what we are capable of with the current squad, but 2 because id like to see some player changes, which to be fair is going to happen anyway

Some, meaning benching Wilko and Hutch for a while, and get some quality to replace the ones we will lose in off season and before v5

We must search overseas imo. A lot of A-league players are capable of stepping up to Championship level, so why dont we try and bring some the other way? Players like Sun Jihai, Rob Hulse, Jon Stead, Lee Croft and Steve Kabba for example, could imo add so much to our league, and would not cost the world to bring down under

the reason why we've got players going in that direction is that they're the cream of our league and we can't afford to keep them any more.

you want players like rob hulse for the first reason, we can't afford them for the second reason.

while hulse would undoubtedly be a good player in the HAL, for the investment required (because he'd cost an absolute bomb) he wouldn't exactly sell a bunch more tickets or shirts because outside of football nutters who knows who he is?