Fan Forum - Monday 2nd June 2014 - questions for absent fans

[nebakke]

As I have said before the problem is that we all want the mariners to be run and behave like a club, problem is it is a franchise and is run that way so the $ will always come before the fans. The problems all started once Mccabe became involved and got the club into the property business, this was meant to provide be the revenue stream to ensure the clubs future. It didn't work at Sheffield United does seem to have worked here if anything seems has weakened the clubs financial position given our need to chase the $ just like at United. The big difference was Sheffield United is a club not a franchise so moving it or games is not an option.

I'm not sure I understand the issue - really... One thing is, if a bad property investment has been made... But I don't undertand the view that property investments are automatically the bane of any "real football club"... We're hardly the first club to try to raise a bit of capital that way, other clubs have certainly done it succesfully, while remaining "a club(tm)".

My own (other) home team, FC København, was formed through the merger of the first teams of KB and B1903, both of which are indeed "real clubs". They earn their keep through providing training facilities and running teams in a number of different sports. FCK itself, is officially owned by Parken Entertainment, who also own the stadium, fitness centres and quite a bit of property. They've had their issues, financially, but at the end of the day, they're the Danish equivalent of Bling FC, only they're making their own money.

They got the memberships back after the fans forum the following season where it appeared they had listened and last seasons NSO game was a booking clash (or so it was positioned or even a community round) that I could live with. Next year moving games purely to chase $ offered by desperate stadium owners which are not aimed at helping the mariners grow but filing their coffers and utilising their white elephants (Gosford council might want to take note as without the Mariners it will have the biggest white elephant of the lot).

The club need to have a very serious think if moving the games is going to result in an overall increase or decrease in memberships or if at least the $ they get are going to be more than the $ they lose.

The thing is, I'm not convinced that anyone buys a football club in order to make money, it's always going to be either a prestige project or a labour of love but at best, you'd hope to perhaps turn a slight profit.
Once that is said, the thing is, I think they ARE having a serious thought about the impact, that's why they're trying it. As has already been mentioned here, it's going to be tried with enough planning, organisation and communications, to ensure that everyone's aware that it is happening and that those interested, can get down there.
From that point of view, I fail to see the harm in two games, next year... There's going to be plenty of time for you to pull your membership after that, if they start looking like they want to actually relocate the club.
Further to that, they also acknowledged that the way they have been doing business, has been an issue. I take that to mean that things like the communications with CCF and the clubs, failure to pay-out etc, have been recognised as areas for improvement.

 

[sydmariner]

I'm not sure I understand the issue - really... One thing is, if a bad property investment has been made... But I don't undertand the view that property investments are automatically the bane of any "real football club"... We're hardly the first club to try to raise a bit of capital that way, other clubs have certainly done it succesfully, while remaining "a club(tm)".

My own (other) home team, FC København, was formed through the merger of the first teams of KB and B1903, both of which are indeed "real clubs". They earn their keep through providing training facilities and running teams in a number of different sports. FCK itself, is officially owned by Parken Entertainment, who also own the stadium, fitness centres and quite a bit of property. They've had their issues, financially, but at the end of the day, they're the Danish equivalent of Bling FC, only they're making their own money.



The thing is, I'm not convinced that anyone buys a football club in order to make money, it's always going to be either a prestige project or a labour of love but at best, you'd hope to perhaps turn a slight profit.
Once that is said, the thing is, I think they ARE having a serious thought about the impact, that's why they're trying it. As has already been mentioned here, it's going to be tried with enough planning, organisation and communications, to ensure that everyone's aware that it is happening and that those interested, can get down there.
From that point of view, I fail to see the harm in two games, next year... There's going to be plenty of time for you to pull your membership after that, if they start looking like they want to actually relocate the club.
Further to that, they also acknowledged that the way they have been doing business, has been an issue. I take that to mean that things like the communications with CCF and the clubs, failure to pay-out etc, have been recognised as areas for improvement.

So if they're like bling fc does that mean that there a team full of traitors ( no offence) who steal rival teams players & staff

 

[nebakke]

So if they're like bling fc does that mean that there a team full of traitors ( no offence) who steal rival teams players & staff

LOL - well sorta (they're not my first choice team, but the other two got relegated, take from that what you will )... I don't recall them ever outright taking a player from the rivals (Brøndby) - I'm not sure they'd gain anything from the, the clubs REALLY don't like each other - Ultraz style sometimes, sadly...

 

[Jaundice]

Excellent post

What people tend to forget is this isn't a "club" more a private business. People are not Members they are season ticket holders . Members would actually have a vote

Ive heard this said quite a bit and to be honest I think its a load of absolute wank. Do you honestly believe Man U or liverpool 'members' for example have any say whatsoever on the workings of the football team or administration. pfft.

In my opinion its naive as hell to think anything but the bureaucracy or investors make the real decisions at the end of the day. tokenistic votes on trivial things might make you feel warm and fuzzy though.

 

[Big Al]

I have been (and still am) on a committee of a local Football club. I know for a fact that our club committee doesn't have time to do this and probably won't. One reason is we were involved in the Mariners Mates program from last year. Last year the mariners promised our club $5 from every membership we sold in the mariners mates program. To date we haven't seen a cent. We raised this with CCF as our local association and they said that they had raised it with the Mariners and the Mariners weren't even responding. So excuse me if I sound a little sceptical.

And yes I do think the clubs business plan is flawed in they have no were near tapped into the local football community yet. In fact I believe they have done a lot of damage there they need to repair. I spoke with the Chairman of CCF a week or so back and he said that CCF's relationship with the Mariners had broken down completely and CCF had moved on because the mariners always promised these things but never delivered. This is a common theme among people in the local clubs.

There is even an email I have seen from the Chairman of CCF to the local clubs last week regarding the above and the delivery of shirts promised to kids in the local clubs last year that still hasn't been done. It says that CCF can no longer help in anyway. It seemed quite clear they are not working with the Mariners in at all.

Yet they seem quite keen to engage Northern Sydney associations.

Is that part of the grand plan or bad business on the coast?

If they do behave the same way with the Northern Sydney Associations they will dump them for SFC WSW in a heart beat if already not being double played.

 

[dibo]

Excellent post

What people tend to forget is this isn't a "club" more a private business. People are not Members they are season ticket holders . Members would actually have a vote

Would members dip into their pockets to sustain ongoing capital injections of up to $1 million a year (given that there are about 6,000 of us, that's approx $167 per member per year *on top* of our membership subscriptions).

Even if there were 20,000 of us, we'd still be forking over $50 a year just to keep afloat.

That's *before* you get to the fact that the club is actually worth something - the club has a value that the current owners aren't going to simply forfeit to the members.

 

[dibo]

Ive heard this said quite a bit and to be honest I think its a load of absolute wank. Do you honestly believe Man U or liverpool 'members' for example have any say whatsoever on the workings of the football team or administration. pfft.

In my opinion its naive as hell to think anything but the bureaucracy or investors make the real decisions at the end of the day. tokenistic votes on trivial things might make you feel warm and fuzzy though.

Liverpool and Man U are privately owned. Club members are members only in the same sense as we are.

Closer to the mark are German and Spanish clubs and most AFL clubs - they have members who vote in elections and the Boards serve the members first and foremost.

 

[iEatHands]

As I have said before the problem is that we all want the mariners to be run and behave like a club, problem is it is a franchise and is run that way so the $ will always come before the fans. The problems all started once Mccabe became involved and got the club into the property business, this was meant to provide be the revenue stream to ensure the clubs future. It didn't work at Sheffield United does seem to have worked here if anything seems has weakened the clubs financial position given our need to chase the $ just like at United. The big difference was Sheffield United is a club not a franchise so moving it or games is not an option.

As with a lot of business one of the hardest things to do is acquire new customers but it is very easy to lose existing ones if you don't treat them right. The club lost 6 memberships from my side after the Canberra experiment, I will support a club no matter what but a franchise has to deliver me a product and treat me right!

They got the memberships back after the fans forum the following season where it appeared they had listened and last seasons NSO game was a booking clash (or so it was positioned or even a community round) that I could live with. Next year moving games purely to chase $ offered by desperate stadium owners which are not aimed at helping the mariners grow but filing their coffers and utilising their white elephants (Gosford council might want to take note as without the Mariners it will have the biggest white elephant of the lot).

The club need to have a very serious think if moving the games is going to result in an overall increase or decrease in memberships or if at least the $ they get are going to be more than the $ they lose.

Well said.

 

[scottmac]

As others have said how does that sit with our continuing culture when he leaves. Getting the right person as well as the right footballer is important

Criteria would be

1) known by the average sports follower - not just football tragics. We need to attract people we don't already market to.
2) Prepared to promote the club in all ways
3) not a dickhead - the club will be here after he has left - he needs to add to the culture not tear it down
4) my preference would be for a family man - our demographic is families - not young testosterone-fueled males
5) he needs to fill a hole in our team. At this stage a prolific striker is the obvious hole.

Do you have any examples of the type of player you are talking about?

Must be Australian.
The coast won't come out for any other nationality.
Must be a household name.
Must wear his heart on his sleeve.

The is only one it could be.

He will play a year or 2 here. If i was MC I'd do all I could to be the team.

 

[scottmac]

Even just a loan deal/guest stint waiting for the MLS to start.

 

[Wombat]

Must be Australian.
The coast won't come out for any other nationality.
Must be a household name.
Must wear his heart on his sleeve.

The is only one it could be.

He will play a year or 2 here. If i was MC I'd do all I could to be the team.

Not true.

Romario drew 15k and Fowler 11k while playing for he worst team in the league. Harry drew 13k in his first season with Victory and he didn't even end up playing (typical).

Coasites know who is worth watching. We are loyal and our support is solid but the club take the piss and we haven't had a draw card since Aloisi.

 

[scottmac]

Not true.

Romario drew 15k and Fowler 11k while playing for he worst team in the league. Harry drew 13k in his first season with Victory and he didn't even end up playing (typical).

Coasites know who is worth watching. We are loyal and our support is solid but the club take the piss and we haven't had a draw card since Aloisi.

You must mean the games where Romario played (13k & many Sydneysiders at that game the train was packed) , then Fowler played for fury (8k & 6k not even sure if he played either it was that memorable) or maybe the game we played Perth in Sydney as part of a double header (10k) & then the game harry didn't play (10k.)

You've come up with some shit in your time but seriously where the f**k did you get those figures? Did you just guess? It took me 5mins & some google. But I'll entertain you & adjust my comment

Must be a household name.
Must wear his heart on his sleeve.

The is only one it could be.

 

[sydmariner]

The coast won't come out for any other nationality.

weemac

 

[Wombat]

You must mean the games where Romario played (13k & many Sydneysiders at that game the train was packed) , then Fowler played for fury (8k & 6k not even sure if he played either it was that memorable) or maybe the game we played Perth in Sydney as part of a double header (10k) & then the game harry didn't play (10k.)

You've come up with some shit in your time but seriously where the f**k did you get those figures? Did you just guess? It took me 5mins & some google. But I'll entertain you & adjust my comment

Must be a household name.
Must wear his heart on his sleeve.

The is only one it could be.

They came from my memory big boy. If I'm wrong so be it....I'll google it and get back to you.
What shit have I come up with?......makes me laugh (entertains me) when people like you who rarely have the balls to post an actual opinion of any substance...like to snipe from a safe distance.

Give a review each game with an honest opinion or sit up the front of the bus with the teachers and play with your Nintendo like a good boy.

 

[pjennings]

The other thing that we need to do better is to communicate and market - and to market in multiple ways. In fact the whole marketing and communication function needs to be looked at. The constant musing by MC about playing in Sydney, piecemeal through the media, without first making a cogent and transparent argument about his motives seemed vey amateur hour. The trashing of the brand in this way to the existing loyal audience is just bad business.

I'd like to see more work in these areas.

Controlled and Co-ordinated Communication function

Membership Marketing - this should be the bread and butter and an area that the club needs to grow further

Event Marketing - a lot of the games could/should be sold as events.

We will have 4 or 5 'derby' type games.
New Years Eve.
Hopefully we get a Heart game with Villa

That takes care of 6 games at BTS. Market the NSO and Brookvale games against say Heart and Adelaide and that leaves 5 'non-event' games at BTS - probably 2 against the Roar, 1 against Victory, 1 against Adelaide and 1 against the Nix . With the Asian Cup being played in January the season may run later this year and with Anzac Day a Saturday this season maybe that game could be played as an 'event'

Corporate Engagement and Marketing - this was highlighted at the forum as area where the potential is to grow. The NSO and Brookvale games may hold the key to unlocking some of this potential.

Grassroots Engagement and Marketing - schools and football clubs need to be better looked after than they have been over the last few years

 

[scottmac]

They came from my memory big boy. If I'm wrong so be it....I'll google it and get back to you.
What shit have I come up with?......makes me laugh (entertains me) when people like you who rarely have the balls to post an actual opinion of any substance...like to snipe from a safe distance.

Give a review each game with an honest opinion or sit up the front of the bus with the teachers and play with your Nintendo like a good boy.

That was an opinion, & you told me "not true" then spouted nonsense to back up why. If you'd like to disagree with my opinion then fine, just don't make up shit to validate yourself.

As for having to give a review each game, why? Is that to gain your respect? Ha.

 

[dibo]

Everyone keep it civil.

 

[bilo]

The other thing that we need to do better is to communicate and market - and to market in multiple ways. In fact the whole marketing and communication function needs to be looked at. The constant musing by MC about playing in Sydney, piecemeal through the media, without first making a cogent and transparent argument about his motives seemed vey amateur hour. The trashing of the brand in this way to the existing loyal audience is just bad business.

I'd like to see more work in these areas.

Controlled and Co-ordinated Communication function

Membership Marketing - this should be the bread and butter and an area that the club needs to grow further

Event Marketing - a lot of the games could/should be sold as events.

We will have 4 or 5 'derby' type games.
New Years Eve.
Hopefully we get a Heart game with Villa

That takes care of 6 games at BTS. Market the NSO and Brookvale games against say Heart and Adelaide and that leaves 5 'non-event' games at BTS - probably 2 against the Roar, 1 against Victory, 1 against Adelaide and 1 against the Nix . With the Asian Cup being played in January the season may run later this year and with Anzac Day a Saturday this season maybe that game could be played as an 'event'

Corporate Engagement and Marketing - this was highlighted at the forum as area where the potential is to grow. The NSO and Brookvale games may hold the key to unlocking some of this potential.

Grassroots Engagement and Marketing - schools and football clubs need to be better looked after than they have been over the last few years

Excellent post and right on the money.

 

[sydmariner]

Everyone keep it civil.

 

[style_cafe]

what did he say re transport?

I heard for the Brookvale match there will be a ferries from Gosford to Manly , then transfers to the game.
We all dress up like pirates & march into the ground with the band playing at the front!!!
K.O at 1pm to allow us to get back to Gosford in daylight...