ALM Round 4 - Mariners v Roar 5pm Sunday 12th

[Insertnamehere]

I cite this reasoning as evidence:
-> Saturday Perth -> Wed. Bali (hard game, hot, 89% humidity) -> 30 hour return trip (apparently lacking adequate food and water -> Sat. a full effort 60mins (also warm) -> began to tire for some reason

I was shocked when Wilson replaced Kuol...but then I considered maybe Kuol was cooked. Would have been worse to injure him.

I mean Wilson hasn't earnt the right to be a sub. Why not give a more natural forward line player a run? Wilson is a 6/8.

 

[LFCMariners]

Haven't watched more than the 3 minute highlights compilation, which doesn't feature the penalty overturning. Watched the replay twice on the big screen as it played out, looked like a clear penalty applying my criteria of: if it was a SFC/ City/ Victory player, would this be awarded a penalty?

A Brisbane supporting friend reckons it was a cracker of a game for the neutral, I told him Roar were incredibly unlucky not to score more with that ball that deflected off the crossbar then landed on the goal-line before going out.

A consistent effort is what's been missing so far from CCM. That and virtually no luck with any of the officiating, which has arguably cost us 2 competition points so far, maybe 4 if that opening Roar goal yesterday was ruled out as the ball clearly appears to have gone out of play.

Wouldn't be surprised to see a turn-around in the game up at Newcastle and 3 or more goals scored to the good, always seem to get a result up there regardless of season form.

 

[midfielder]

HHHHHmmmmmmmmm

This is more a comment, and maybe a warning to the club,

Clubs as a whole, and the Mariners also want loyalty from fans, ...... have clubs or do clubs consider fans also want loyalty, from their club. We sold off potentially 5 future Socceroos and our best coach since Arnold. So is the club afforded the same respect & loyalty to the fans as they expect fan to show.

I understand the need for money, plyer careers etc etc.

IMO its impossible to discount the fact that players consistently coming and going will have a negative effect on fans effecting both crowds & ratings.

Some simple maths if we increased crowds by say 4 K per match, at an averages of say $ 25.00 per ticket thats an extra 100K per match or 1.3 million...

Another frustrating point is players are sold for what appears to folk like me a fraction of their worth, Irankunda is reported to have been sold for 5.3 million....

Those suggesting there is off the field back office issues.... I advise great caution before posting as rumours can start and they can get out of control very quickly and take on a life of their own, and they can totally derail a club.

RP has made it clear he wants certain metrics and the only one we know is a an 8K crowd average, and I assume 8K paying. Lets get the 8K right, and that means IMO winning with style and showing fans some loyalty...

 

[Allreet?]

Pretty sure the ball didn't go fully over the line.

 

[pjennings]

HHHHHmmmmmmmmm

RP has made it clear he wants certain metrics and the only one we know is a an 8K crowd average, and I assume 8K paying. Lets get the 8K right, and that means IMO winning with style and showing fans some loyalty...

Not saying that we will end up getting 8000 average at CCS. That will depend on how results go as the season progresses. But our ALM crowds are up 31% compared to the first 2 rounds last season. If that continued we are heading towards an average of around 8,700.

 

[Wombat]

Initially he did not run into spaces or make his marker have to move but after twenty minutes he did move into space.He was very well placed for the pass which never came from Theo who went on to try for the penalty that never was.He is worth persisting with and he and Farrell could build up a good combination.

He isn't imo.

 

[Forum Phoenix]

My biggest concern occurred roughly 15 minutes into the second half.

The lack of off the ball running in attack and instinctive tracking back in defence to close down space ..... we looked a side with players trying to win the game so many shots from outside the box well off target.... Theo mate look up and pass the ball.....

As I looked at the crowd the concern I had was RP wants an 8k average.... as a key metric to buy the club...

For the rest of the game I studied the team, only Danny, Faz, Nizzy, Max, Tulio, maybe Kaltak are lets say quality, then Strom, Koul [getting better] the rest don't IMO look A-L level.

Is this team and this coach capable of drawing an 8k average...

We were buggered Middy. That travel. Hard game. 82% humidity. Team showed a lot of heart but yeah you could see it impacted the runs, the tracking and just the focus at times.

Wombat, Harry’s inclusion was just an attempt to get fresh legs on. Ross Fouloisi had a clear plan going in with his triple sub to simply over run us. I was so impressed by how well players like Tulio, Faz and Niz backed up and put in huge shifts.

 

[FFC Mariner]

HHHHHmmmmmmmmm

This is more a comment, and maybe a warning to the club,

Clubs as a whole, and the Mariners also want loyalty from fans, ...... have clubs or do clubs consider fans also want loyalty, from their club. We sold off potentially 5 future Socceroos and our best coach since Arnold. So is the club afforded the same respect & loyalty to the fans as they expect fan to show.

I understand the need for money, plyer careers etc etc.

IMO its impossible to discount the fact that players consistently coming and going will have a negative effect on fans effecting both crowds & ratings.

Some simple maths if we increased crowds by say 4 K per match, at an averages of say $ 25.00 per ticket thats an extra 100K per match or 1.3 million...

Another frustrating point is players are sold for what appears to folk like me a fraction of their worth, Irankunda is reported to have been sold for 5.3 million....

Those suggesting there is off the field back office issues.... I advise great caution before posting as rumours can start and they can get out of control very quickly and take on a life of their own, and they can totally derail a club.

RP has made it clear he wants certain metrics and the only one we know is a an 8K crowd average, and I assume 8K paying. Lets get the 8K right, and that means IMO winning with style and showing fans some loyalty...

Dont you need an "owner" who is committed to THIS club? Someone with actual skin in the game. For all his perceived faults there is no doubt that MC has real actual cash of his own in the joint.
Not someone renting it as practice who can walk away if it all turns to shit having covered his investment with player sales
As ever, Shaun will be left to sweep up the shit if it all goes wrong(er)

 

[Forum Phoenix]

Monty lost the Australia cup game with this squad. I still think his plan was to develop underperforming players so brought them in undercooked (see Silvera et al.).
Then he left so those players remain the unfinished product. I strongly suspect DWH, Wilson and the rest would be developing quickly under the unique talents of Monty/Serg.
Instead we have a half team of proven players and a half team of underperformers and a new coach who knows none of them, trying to implement a new model and with only a sliver of a preseason.

It's just the reality we face. 9/10 coaches we could have brought in would be facing the same issues, and so would whoever we would replace MJ with if we sacked him.

I'd be considerably more concerned if we were getting smacked every game or were playing like complete trash. But we've been well in these games and not far off. Add exhaustion to this game too.
So far this season we've seen many other teams lose by margins of 4 or 5 - we've been primarily a pair of shooting boots or a miraculous goalkeeping away from wins.

4 losses sucks, no doubt about it. But just blaming the coach fails to take in the context of our situation

Completely agree. Except it’s probably closer to 999 out of a thousand, if not higher.

Fans just want to win. I certainly do, but fans are also typically unrealistic if not outright delusional.

Best resourced clubs in the world often still struggle heavily, sometimes even for a season or more with a rebuild.

I honestly don’t know any coach that would walk into our squad without a pre season and be able to do anything. I wouldn’t even bet on Ange. Unlike most I feared we’d be an absolute shambles and I’m genuinely surprised we’re as competitive as we are. And you’d think more people would agree given how they keep pointing out just how many players they thin. we’re short of having a quality first eleven.

And that’s not a strong argument that we’re suffering from bad coaching unless he recruited them and or has had a good amount of time to develop them and failed. You can argue Torres, Wilson Doka and Paull would have been better under Monty and Serge. Who knows. Some did but plenty of players didn’t flourish under him. Can only lead a horse etc… and it takes time. Some of our best have taken years.

Reality is, we are, always have been, and always will be, the victim of our own success. It’s why we lost our best players. Our coaches. Which is hard at any point, but the timing of the loss of Monty was horrendous. That’s football.

Also, direct from some of the players, they’re tired, frustrated by their own mistakes and losing games they believe/know they could have won. I think it’s a fair reading. Been a very hard ask for all involved. I believe they’re all working hard. That they want it, and they’re really not that far off. So yeah, they do all deserve to be cut sone slack in this scenario. Agree has to be finite. But needs to be there too, or all we do is help perpetuate a downward spiral.

To be clear, I don’t have any real reason to defend Jackson. Could be an absolute clown . My only attachment as ever is the success of our club. But I don’t subscribe to the pitchfork model as my default tool for correction. Because it’s so obviously more damaging than useful most of the time.

But as have also said, after a point it just becomes untenable regardless. Jackson may be good or he may be shit, but once perception goes far enough, you have to act anyway.

Everyone agrees our squad isn’t strong enough, in fact many seem to think we only have half a starting team, yet after playing midweek in an exhaustive fixture, does anyone think we couldn’t have won that game? Players, coaches and most pundits do. And I agree with them.

Got to be careful what you wish for. So I’ll keep my pitch fork stowed until there’s no choice. But no doubt the time to decide is coming down the pipe fast.

Players need to win or eventually they’ll implode. The players seemed frustrated and angry right now. And to me I can see they’re also a bit scared of failing and likely what it means to their careers etc. This league is tight, small margins win games, and we have tougher sides ahead. Still, I prefer to get around people and rally when the chips are down, which is why id prefer we didn’t try to hate on Peil or the coach or our players while there’s any other choice…

But that’s the world.

 

[Insertnamehere]

Just watched mini.
Wasn't a pen for Theo.
Paull at fault for second goal by wondering away from Waddingham.
Alou should have had three in the first half.
Steele was fouled but it was a red.
We defend too far off the man most of the time, not enough pressure. But we did look gassed.
Not patient enough in attack but also too slow in the buildup.
Faz is underutilised in attack and Tulio over utilised.
High press isn't working because we're just too lazy and not blocking the passing channels.

 

[JackMariner]

That looks like it’s still in by a small margin. I’d be pissed if that switch off happened in a shit tier all age never mind a professional team.

Really? What can you do when VAR fails you. I did this with a 20 year old video program what hope do we have when a glaringly bad decision is thrust upon us with all the supposed technology A - League has. There is more to this, what's the saying "Something is definitely rotten in the state of Denmark". Here also is Brian giving up defence knowing full well, the ball had touched ground behind the line and expecting a correct adjudication. Oh, and the refereeing, I was so impressed I left at 70 mins, walked home 6klm to vent, because if I had stayed I would have been turfed out for bringing the game into disrepute.

 

[FFC Mariner]

Just watched mini.
Wasn't a pen for Theo.
Paull at fault for second goal by wondering away from Waddingham.
Alou should have had three in the first half.
Steele was fouled but it was a red.
We defend too far off the man most of the time, not enough pressure. But we did look gassed.
Not patient enough in attack but also too slow in the buildup.
Faz is underutilised in attack and Tulio over utilised.
High press isn't working because we're just too lazy and not blocking the passing channels.

Yup. Great post. Paull worries me and I wonder if Hall deserves a run

 

[midfielder]

Dont you need an "owner" who is committed to THIS club? Someone with actual skin in the game. For all his perceived faults there is no doubt that MC has real actual cash of his own in the joint.
Not someone renting it as practice who can walk away if it all turns to shit having covered his investment with player sales
As ever, Shaun will be left to sweep up the shit if it all goes wrong(er)

Also that we lost money last year, off the back making the GF and player sales has a hint of creative accounting, my cals we got over 5 million in sales, plus GF prize money if there is any...

 

[midfielder]

Just watched mini.
Wasn't a pen for Theo.
Paull at fault for second goal by wondering away from Waddingham.
Alou should have had three in the first half.
Steele was fouled but it was a red.
We defend too far off the man most of the time, not enough pressure. But we did look gassed.
Not patient enough in attack but also too slow in the buildup.
Faz is underutilised in attack and Tulio over utilised.
High press isn't working because we're just too lazy and not blocking the passing channels.

good summary

 

[Quirky]

I'm more positive than most. I want to see some sign that the players understand and buy-in to Jackson's new way of doing things. And I think do (in part).

It does and will take time, but there are a few issues that need addressing however:

- Lack of depth - Beyond our best XI, we look thin on the ground... if youth is the way forward we need to give them more minutes (even if it means dropping the more experienced lads)

- One or two first teamers that aren't good enough - DWH seems like a decent chap but he's not fast enough, strong enough or technically gifted enough to lead the line

- New signings bedding in - Unconvinced by Wilson, Doka and Paul right now... am happy to give them more games BUT we have to be prepared to fail fast (sunk cost fallacy has ruined teams in the UK lower leagues)

- Ditch the press - Unpopular opinion I'm sure, but asking a team to play twice a week (including a gruelling travel schedule), play in the heat of Asia/Australia and to press from beginning to end is a big ask and yesterday Brisbane were passing through it at will. I would rather conserve the energy and expend it when we have the ball. There were a few times yesterday when the ball was played up to Kuol and the midfield plodded it's way forward to support. Travel schedule or not, lethargy shouldn't be an issue at this time of the season.

But, even with all that, I still say I've seen enough to remain positive. I wouldn't rule out a run of wins later in the season.

 

[Josho Howe]

We defend too far off the man most of the time, not enough pressure. But we did look gassed.

Yep, 1000% this. This was the common thought amongst us up in Bay 16. Brisbane continually had these pockets of space in the middle just outside the box which Berenguer and others exploited. Last season, Maxi or Nis were both able to deal with this more effectively. It feels like Jacko's press at all costs means these spaces for the opposition are easier to come by when they are in transition.

 

[FFC Mariner]

Also that we lost money last year, off the back making the GF and player sales has a hint of creative accounting, my cals we got over 5 million in sales, plus GF prize money if there is any...

Dont think there is any GF prize money is there. My understanding (possibly wrong) is that the AL control the finals and pocket the cash to be distributed to all clubs

 

[FFC Mariner]

Yep, 1000% this. This was the common thought amongst us up in Bay 16. Brisbane continually had these pockets of space in the middle just outside the box which Berenguer and others exploited. Last season, Maxi or Nis were both able to deal with this more effectively. It feels like Jacko's press at all costs means these spaces for the opposition are easier to come by when they are in transition.

YOU NEED TO f**kING SING MORE LIKE A REAL FAN

(some drunk little f**ktard making a complete goose of himself all afternoon)

 

[turbo]

Really? What can you do when VAR fails you. I did this with a 20 year old video program what hope do we have when a glaringly bad decision is thrust upon us with all the supposed technology A - League has. There is more to this, what's the saying "Something is definitely rotten in the state of Denmark". Here also is Brian giving up defence knowing full well, the ball had touched ground behind the line and expecting a correct adjudication.

If any part of the ball is above the line it's not out. From everything we have seen it looks close but its not clearly out. Maybe the VAR had a better view maybe they didn't. I believe Kaltak thought it was out but how much faith do you have in his judgement at that exact moment? Of course he is going to appeal for it being out but we can't stop because of it. Just like you can't stop when there's an offside because there's a chance you're wrong.

 

[adz]

Dont think there is any GF prize money is there. My understanding (possibly wrong) is that the AL control the finals and pocket the cash to be distributed to all clubs

Yep I seem to remember there being no incentive other than a shiny toilet seat, extra expenses, and none of the usual income from home games when it comes to finals.