Who should be our Manager?

[dibo]

Fair call, but we have the same budget (ie FFA payment) as every other team. We don't have the ability to buy or choose not to buy marquees.

This first line is internally contradictory. Obviously if we can't buy marquees we don't have the same budget as everyone else.

The choice about whether or not to buy a marquee also masks the fact that if you buy two marquees, you only have to split the cap over a maximum of 21 players rather than a maximum of 23.

The story gets worse if we're nearer the 85% salary floor than the salary cap - we might be spending only $2.17m for 23 players vs others' $2.55m for 21 players plus two marquees. The average salary for players in the cap might be $94k vs $121k.

In an open market like the market for professional footballers, wages will correlate pretty strongly with quality, so paying *on average* 29% less for each player is going to leave you well behind the leaders on quality.

Look at our squad and look at other squads and ask yourself how many would start in other squads. Then do the reverse, imagine the difference some of the players from other squads would make in our side if only we could afford them.

After you've done that *then* come onto your next question.

In that case we need a manager who can get the best out of what he has to lift us above other teams, and I don't think we have that.

To be honest I'm really surprised at the lack of pressure on Mossy by the media at the moment given our results.

If you think Mossy is playing with the same quality squad as everyone else, I'm sure this argument holds water, but I don't think he is so I don't think it does.

We've recruited like the poor cousins and we're playing like the poor cousins because we are the poor cousins.

I'd be happier if he went the whole hog and went all the way with kids à la GCU 2011/12. At least then we might not win heaps but we'll be offering opportunities to the best kids in the country to make a name for themselves and build/maintain a reputation as a nursery for talent.

 

[VicMariner]

Fair call, but we have the same budget (ie FFA payment) as every other team. We don't have the ability to buy or choose not to buy marquees.

In that case we need a manager who can get the best out of what he has to lift us above other teams, and I don't think we have that.

To be honest I'm really surprised at the lack of pressure on Mossy by the media at the moment given our results.

Paying the salary floor and no marquees, Moss doesn't have the same budget.
Dibo put it much better than I can. see above

 

[elevated position]

Dibo in the past we did not run with a full squad and had arguably better quality players so if we only have say 19 players on contract then we can pay better averages and draw from the juniors when needed rather then have them on the books and still not playing.

 

[dibo]

Dibo in the past we did not run with a full squad and had arguably better quality players so if we only have say 19 players on contract then we can pay better averages and draw from the juniors when needed rather then have them on the books and still not playing.

To match the salaries we'd have to run only 18 in the squad, and there's a minimum squad size of 20. With 20 we'd still be on an average of $108k vs $121k - 12% off.

Signing a smaller squad to boost average salaries only boosts the risk of being caught very short with injuries.

And we'd be much worse off than another club that pulls the same trick and spreads their $2.55m over only 18 players plus 2 marquees - they could potentially boost average non-marquee salaries to $142k - we'd be 30% off the pace.

In any apples and apples comparison (and even some where we're attempting to game the system) we're worse off.

 

[nearlyyellow]

I'd be happier if he went the whole hog and went all the way with kids

Although we are not "kids all the way" we have a fair % of kids. This is the age breakdown now after Ferreira joined:
6 players 20 and under
5 players 21-23
7 players 24-25
2 players 26-30
6 players 30 +
Kids + old hands. Maybe a good mix if it could all come together?

 

[Wombat]

There are no consistent team selections, and sometimes bizarre ones (ie Sim starting). There is no desire or confidence from the players, and a -13 goaldifference 15 rounds in.

The alarming thing is the goal deficit. We are the most defensive side in the comp with everyone behind the ball and two DMs and still we are getting slaughtered . Time for a Plan B.

 

[Bladesman]

To match the salaries we'd have to run only 18 in the squad, and there's a minimum squad size of 20. With 20 we'd still be on an average of $108k vs $121k - 12% off.

Signing a smaller squad to boost average salaries only boosts the risk of being caught very short with injuries.

And we'd be much worse off than another club that pulls the same trick and spreads their $2.55m over only 18 players plus 2 marquees - they could potentially boost average non-marquee salaries to $142k - we'd be 30% off the pace.

In any apples and apples comparison (and even some where we're attempting to game the system) we're worse off.

Supposing I buy into the argument that more $ automatically means better players (which I don't) this is no different to previous years where we have been the poorer cousins. What we have had in the past is coaches who can take those "poorer" players who are cheaper, develop them and/or get them to play above what they are been paid, just as poorer clubs across the world do ie Athletico Madrid, Southampton etc. We need a coach that can spot unrecognised/unfilled talent, in the past that has been through youth but also supported by the likes of Dutchy. The problem is Moss is not a coach that can do that, he has failed with his recruitment of experience and overseas, his NSL recruitment is marginal and we are seeing the youngsters such as Storm and Dukey go backwards which is why we need change.

We could run with a smaller squad to pay more as you can bring in injury replacements if needed.

 

[kevrenor]

I'd be happier if he went the whole hog and went all the way with kids à la GCU 2011/12. At least then we might not win heaps but we'll be offering opportunities to the best kids in the country to make a name for themselves and build/maintain a reputation as a nursery for talent.

This puzzles me. I know he gave Neill a go, and he was a revelation before his injury - but he had played in China in the ACL in April 2013!

What I don't know is why the likes of Kalik, Liam Rose, McGing, and Curran haven't been tried, given our real performances (unlike the performances Mossy seems to see). Also Bingham was given only token time.

 

[gull]

This first line is internally contradictory. Obviously if we can't buy marquees we don't have the same budget as everyone else.

The choice about whether or not to buy a marquee also masks the fact that if you buy two marquees, you only have to split the cap over a maximum of 21 players rather than a maximum of 23.

The story gets worse if we're nearer the 85% salary floor than the salary cap - we might be spending only $2.17m for 23 players vs others' $2.55m for 21 players plus two marquees. The average salary for players in the cap might be $94k vs $121k.

In an open market like the market for professional footballers, wages will correlate pretty strongly with quality, so paying *on average* 29% less for each player is going to leave you well behind the leaders on quality.

Look at our squad and look at other squads and ask yourself how many would start in other squads. Then do the reverse, imagine the difference some of the players from other squads would make in our side if only we could afford them.

After you've done that *then* come onto your next question.



If you think Mossy is playing with the same quality squad as everyone else, I'm sure this argument holds water, but I don't think he is so I don't think it does.

We've recruited like the poor cousins and we're playing like the poor cousins because we are the poor cousins.

I'd be happier if he went the whole hog and went all the way with kids à la GCU 2011/12. At least then we might not win heaps but we'll be offering opportunities to the best kids in the country to make a name for themselves and build/maintain a reputation as a nursery for talent.

If we choose not to use the salary cap as paid by the FFA then we have no right to cry poor. Again if we choose not to purchase marquees that's a club decision and negates our right to complain.

We have the option to spend the same as everyone else but choose not to.

I appreciate your argument, although I guess we won't know the quality of the squad until we see someone else work with them.

Having watched this year I just don't think we're getting the best out of our possibly limited squad.

 

[elevated position]

This puzzles me. I know he gave Neill a go, and he was a revelation before his injury - but he had played in China in the ACL in April 2013!

What I don't know is why the likes of Kalik, Liam Rose, McGing, and Curran haven't been tried, given our real performances (unlike the performances Mossy seems to see). Also Bingham was given only token time.

My point exactly Kev and why sign the Nike kid (1yr) and then sign Fabio (2.5yrs) and also then have another two right side players in Cernak and Vernes. The side is now unbalanced and money and space spent on a player who wont play (unless he is an out and out champion?)

One wag next to me in my bay was lamenting the point (when Moss was first appointed) that when he was at Manly he was known for diabolical team selections.

 

[Big Al]

Last years semi team that lost to wanderers difference to SFC.
Poscalario for roux
Trifiro for Monty both in semi squad
Simon for Ibini. Simon was on bench.

Same coach but trying to play a different system with no squad continuity.

That semi team wasn't flashy but no way they loose 5-1 to SFC. Something is very wrong and has been all season. Last season there was a good excuse and it was turned around. This year it's been turned around again the wrong way

 

[dibo]

If we choose not to use the salary cap as paid by the FFA then we have no right to cry poor.

Really? If we don't have the cash to pay the full cap we'd have no reason to cry poor?

An (extreme) analogy of your argument is to say I can't cry or for choosing not to buy a Ferrari.

 

[gull]

Really? If we don't have the cash to pay the full cap we'd have no reason to cry poor?

An (extreme) analogy of your argument is to say I can't cry or for choosing not to buy a Ferrari.

I don't understand how we don't have the cash to pay the full cap when it's a grant from the FFA?

That is the basis of my argument.

 

[dibo]

That doesn't mean that we are forced to spend it all on salaries and it also doesn't mean that other areas of the business aren't struggling so much we have to skimp on the cap.

 

[gull]

That doesn't mean that we are forced to spend it all on salaries and it also doesn't mean that other areas of the business aren't struggling so much we have to skimp on the cap.

My understanding was that it is paid directly by the FFA to the players to avoid the issues of non payment that have happened at some clubs in the past: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-07-01/clubs-see-slight-raise-in-new-a-league-pay-deal/4791864 "FFA club distribution payments will also be tied to salaries to ensure players get paid, avoiding similar situation as caused by defunct franchises Gold Coast United and North Queensland Fury where players were left in limbo when the clubs folded."

That being the case why would you not use as much of the cap as possible when it isn't coming from the club?

 

[dibo]

The stuff in Newcastle would suggest that's not the case.

 

[style_cafe]

I`m not one for changing coaches mid-season.

In saying that Mossy does need a kick up the backside.

The team selections have been all over the place.
Players like Roux can`t even get on the bench & others play well (Cernak v City) but get dropped from the side.
It really is a chook lotto to get into the side.

Then we have players like Duke playing out of position. FFS if he`s going to be a midfielder/ winger at least play him on the right side.

Then there is the style of play.
The constant passing with no direction or purpose is just bloody ridiculous. We defend for the opposition it seems.
At least try to catch the opposition out by playing direct sometimes!

 

[gull]

The stuff in Newcastle would suggest that's not the case.

Seems not: "The administration of the Hyundai A-League has also renewed its commitment to player contract security with all clubs committing to guaranteeing that FFA Club Distribution payments will only be used to pay players’ salaries."http://www.footballaustralia.com.au...ollective-bargaining-agreement-extended/69828

I read that the Scum payment problems relate to Super which would be paid by the employer.

 

[nearlyyellow]

Seems not:I read that the Scum payment problems relate to Super which would be paid by the employer.

Given the current Newcastle debacle when the TV rights deal is renegotiated it's probably a moral that the PFA will ensure that the super is also guaranteed to be paid out of the rights money. However a guarantee by the clubs doesn't necessarily mean that it will always happen. Maybe it should be a license condition?

 

[nebakke]

I`m not one for changing coaches mid-season.

In saying that Mossy does need a kick up the backside.

The team selections have been all over the place.
Players like Roux can`t even get on the bench & others play well (Cernak v City) but get dropped from the side.
It really is a chook lotto to get into the side.

Then we have players like Duke playing out of position. FFS if he`s going to be a midfielder/ winger at least play him on the right side.

Then there is the style of play.
The constant passing with no direction or purpose is just bloody ridiculous. We defend for the opposition it seems.
At least try to catch the opposition out by playing direct sometimes!

My God, sometimes I wish this was a button that said something along the lines of "THIS! A THOUSAND TIMES THIS!"

Although, Storm was actually on the bench against the Smurfs... I think he was on the bench against City as well, wasn't he?