Turbulence (then calm sailing, then turbulence) thread.

[FFC Mariner]

So it seems

 

[nebakke]

Is this really happening again

http://m.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/ce...er-unpaid-superannuation-20151215-glnt9y.html

Oh ffs... You know what? I'm getting to a point where i'd almost prefer that we just went f*****g under and had it over with.
If the rumours flying around are really true anyway, the malcontent, lack of spirit, lack of money etc. Then there really isn't a lot left of the club that i love and support. The way this is going is starting to take on a bit of that carcass stench :. (

 

[FFC Mariner]

^This

 

[Gratis]

Oh ffs... You know what? I'm getting to a point where i'd almost prefer that we just went f*****g under and had it over with.
If the rumours flying around are really true anyway, the malcontent, lack of spirit, lack of money etc. Then there really isn't a lot left of the club that i love and support. The way this is going is starting to take on a bit of that carcass stench :. (

Strangely/sadly this was also how I felt when I read this.

Maybe it's time to let those players who want to go leave for a clear out and we start again. Be gutted to lose a few who were motioned though.

Assume the club will pay up in time and this will go away to some extent. But if there is discontent as suggested then there's an uphill battle ahead*

*probably should afford a healthy dose of doubt to any smh article, they just love putting an unwarranted boot in, the pr#cks

 

[nebakke]

Thing is - I can't even blame the players... I'd not have a whole lot of loyalty left for a place that took me so much for granted they'd think that I wouldn't care about my pay.
If this story really is true, I think it might just be the thing to push me into the #MCOUT contingent... for all the good THAT does.

 

[Big Al]

Doesn't make sense with the whole tight budgets paying off debts and heading towards breaking even.

However super being due every 3 months they prob talking the September quarter due in October so a good month or two late.

I hate how cash strapped companies disregard super payments. The penalty should be a lot higher than it is..

Not to shore any of those mentioned would be happy when there agents tell them they want to pay you half what the Mariners do and you won't be starting.

How can any of those guys afford to live in Sydney over the coast

 

[nearlyyellow]

I hate how cash strapped companies disregard super payments.

Yeess, it was 18 months after I left my last employ before the ATO sent me a final payment of my super, torn by force from my ex employer. It's not a good thing for companies (CCMFC) to not pay super on time. I would have thought that compulsory super would have been part of the FFA salary cap funding direct payments?

 

[Rowdy]

Although, one way of getting rid of players you dont want but still have time on their contract's, if thats how you like to conduct your business ........... bit smelly.

 

[nebakke]

Doesn't make sense with the whole tight budgets paying off debts and heading towards breaking even.

However super being due every 3 months they prob talking the September quarter due in October so a good month or two late.

I hate how cash strapped companies disregard super payments. The penalty should be a lot higher than it is..

Not to shore any of those mentioned would be happy when there agents tell them they want to pay you half what the Mariners do and you won't be starting.

How can any of those guys afford to live in Sydney over the coast

Most definitely - on the super... The system is ridiculous, at least in terms of how long a company can legally hold on to the money before it has to be paid to you... Especially when you consider that the point of super is to create savings for you.
My concern is that I've seen more than one small-time employer, push super along with other bills, over the years... My wife's old employer used to say "they don't really mean it until the third overdue notice"... Funnily enough, he'd still complain about other small business taking the same approach with him.

Anyway, the thing is, whether those players will be paid less, or not, doesn't really matter. The club used to pride itself on the loyalty ad togetherness that was forged by a mutual respect, even in the difficult circumstances.
If the club isn't at least showing the players the minimal bit of commitment that comes with actually paying them as agreed, how can they expect the players to show any more commitment? It's supposed to be a two-way street.
If we're two months behind on the super, for example, they've already burned through the loyalty by waiting for two months, especially considering there are players there who have been through this rigmarole before... Some more than once... When you then also consider that there's no f*****g excuse anymore, because the pay is supposed to be covered by the TV money - you have to start wondering wtf sort of business MC is running!

Sh*t... Getting worked up now, better close it up again...

 

[pjennings]

Seb Hassett, SST, TWG and a few others have a habit of misrepresenting what happens on the Coast as they often don't cross the Lane Cover River let alone the Hawkesbury. Certainly another disturbing story - but I will wait to see what Ray Gatt's take on it is.

 

[rbakersmith]

I hate how cash strapped companies disregard super payments. The penalty should be a lot higher than it is..

Yep, know that feeling. It took a good 2-3 years after I left my previous employer for the ATO to finish extracting 3 years worth of super out of them - the only positive out of the whole thing was that I got a better return thanks to the penalty interest than I would have had it been in my super fund due to the GFC.

My understanding from speaking to one of the players earlier in the year is that the long-standing super debt - which went back several years, if not to the beginning - was paid out; as such I'd agree that what's owing is most likely the last quarter which would have been due at the end of October.

If Shaun's looking at this thread some clarification would be nice... If not then hopefully MC gets a proper grilling in the podcast.

 

[Forum Phoenix]

Oh boy, here we go again. But really this time it's not the same. Because this time the players can leave! And we have so many to spare! Here I was hoping we'd actually spring to get a couple more to help the football along. Sounds like we'll need 7.

Have never believed going postal helps when the shit starts to fly, so I'm not going to start now, nor as the number of posts on here already indicate are late super payments uncommon, but this is utterly shit timing and the stuff about the players wanting out makes for dire reading as a fan.

The club have been excellent with communication this year, but we've been led to believe that things were looking positive financially and in the dressing room and otherwise - apart from being bottom of the league and having to excise a couple of dick heads - going to plan.

So what's the story Shaun?

Our crowds averages are a few hundred up on the past two seasons, so why this budget shortfall when we surely must have budgeted to pay our players their super? (Maybe should post this in the questions for MC podcast thread)

We really need that communication now, because we've been beleaguered by constant bad press and awful rumours before we'd even kicked a ball this year, and obviously now that we're spooning as well, everyones tolerance is going to be at an all time low.

If this is all true, it's another pretty big kick when we're down. I'm sure it must be hard at CCM, with the budget so damn tight, and the players must feel concerned about their super, though I'm sure the PFA will see they get their due. But hearing no less than five players are trying to get out of their contracts by using this as a loophole is bloody hurtful as a fan. The implications of this are very destructive. Which is why if it's a beat up by Hasset, it's pretty despicable. And I for one would like the club to take a swing back if that's the case. Sick of these guys leaping on any chance to kick us.

Certainly makes you inclined to fear the worst. So I'm hoping the club can address these issue and reassures CCM members and fans ASAP.

 

[midfielder]

What can you say ... Gotta say the pride I feel for our club is starting to slip

 

[Forum Phoenix]

I feel you middy. But I'm still not going to tarnish all the memories and all the players, coaches and fans, by losing my pride. Because we earnt it, and so did they. And I don't think we have to give it away for what's happening, and I'm not inclined to give even an inch to all those who'd love to snicker and watch us fall.

All of the experiences, people and players are what the club means to me. Even though it sucks, it's not whether management screws up it's cash flow and is late with its super again, or that some players would rather play for bigger home crowds, bigger dollars... or that yes, it would be incredible to have an owner whose passion for the team, game and region meant they would not always feel compelled to place the bottom line first. (What a holy grail that would be) Perth, (their NSL history aside) leap to mind. Smaller average crowds than us, far worse record than us, but they get busted for over spending! They're looking at the spoon, so they fork out to get Keogh back on a guest stint.

Our key leadership of Hutch, TW and Monty are still worthy of pride, as is our history, our badge, our ground, our trophies, our region etc. And so are most of our team - especially within a youth/experience/ and perpetually under resourced context.

The hard truth is we continue to get kicked about because of MONEY. It's modern football. It's modern sport. And I HATE that about it. There are clubs in our league who have worked nowhere near as hard as CCM has over the years, but they would lord it over us with their club "pride" and feel they are clearly superior. Wanderers - the FFA spoon feeds a club into a hugely dense footballing population, and then everyone swoons over them because what, by having a club in a hugely dense footballing population means more people go to games, so they're now cashed up and such an amazing club. Or City? Please. Neither of those will probably ever have to worry about paying super - but it's not because their clubs are more worthy of pride than ours.

So I might get pissed off, and I know we're all sick to death of the dramas, but I'm not going to lose pride.

I'll give up on the club, when the club gives up. (Actually I won't - I'd probably push for a community owned model.)
But anyway the club looks to have been working its guts out once again this year. It really does. But we just look to spread thin and the austerity measures far too drastic to pull off what they were hoping for. That's the problem.

So we should not conflate the pain of our performances, the talk of moving games, or the refusal to fill the squad or spend the cap with anything other than what it's about.

MONEY.

We can dig at MC for that though. Because while he's not obliged to lose money. It is fair enough and would be great for us to be finsncially sustainable - just as long as we can slso stay genuinely competitive. If he wants to run a hamburger shop, he still has to put meat on the buns and pay the cooks imo.

 

[elevated position]

Players have been living and commuting from Sydney for years. Read some of Pedj Bojic interviews and he talks of car pooling. Same with Bernie.

A question here is ,is the supper part of their contract package which would then fall into the salary cap(?)

 

[Ancient Mariner]

I am not about to lose any sleep over another doom and gloom newspaper beat up.

I am sure the PFA are watching CCM like hawks and if there is any hiccup in any payment there will be a leak to the media to put the pressure on.

Will worry when the shit hits the fan, not when some journo says "the sky is falling".

 

[FFC Mariner]

Official response from #MCOUT

http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/article/2015/12/15/charlesworth-vows-settle-debt-mariners-players

not quite certain how you can have "historical debts" to players who werent at the club when you took over but who are we to say that everytime he opens his mouth its just complete bullshit

 

[rbakersmith]

not quite certain how you can have "historical debts" to players who werent at the club when you took over but who are we to say that everytime he opens his mouth its just complete bullshit

Both articles are speculating about which players are actually affected.

 

[BrisRecky]

question, how does the financial officer not pay the super automatically, is it a lack of funds or incompetence?

 

[localpom]

I'm not too concerned. There's no way MC would chance losing his prized assets (players such as Caceres, Storm, Rose Jr etc) leave before we can get a chance to sell them on. The potential sales would far outweigh anything we need to pay in super. Looks like the PFA leaked the story to the press after one or 2 players complained maybe. I'm not buying into any of the negativity, but am concerned why we have left it to get to this stage. We have a young, very talented team who are going to be much better the more they play. We are definately lacking a couple of experience quality players but it seems this is a season to get the club back on track financially and it will be hard to watch at times. For me, i am settled on just watching the development of the young guys for this season and if we can get some high profile scalps that will be enough. The good times will return.