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Turbulence (then calm sailing, then turbulence) thread.

midfielder

Well-Known Member
Mmmpphh, sorry Middy, I was typing another over long missive when you shotgunned me. But I sorta felt it was important to bury some of the grounds for financial ineptitude that have been mentioned. :cool:

EDIT: Oh, I forgot, that's your game, isn't it? And of course you like it! OK. How about some input from you then?


My reading of the tea leafs is its a relatively simple operation from an Accounting stance... Sponsors to invoice, stadium income, FFA Income, bills are wages, stadium costs, tour costs etc... my guess also there would be a budget to compare... with break even crowd figures ... the accounting while not simple would not be that complex...

The issue would be around timing and management systems to identify early variations to budgets and then those being actioned on...tis where clever management lies and having systems or people who can look beyond the figures to the underlying causes of the figures, future trends and actions to undertake to improve things... TBH Bruce seems not to be the best at this part of the finances ie looking beyond the figures and asking and determining trends, their directions etc... While signs to date indicate Storrie does ...
 

nearlyyellow

Well-Known Member
Fat on the fire ..

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/...he-game-inside-australia-20150329-1ma7cp.html

It seems that MC is keen to turn the A-League into a semi-international (Pan Asian) competition. You'll have to read the article to get the whole picture but these sentences are the relevant points re MC:

"Did any of the owners ask their fans what they think? Unlikely. There's some irony that Mike Charlesworth has railed against the costs of competing in the Asian Champions League but is now among the more outspoken advocates of the CFG mantra. Central Coast Stadium resembles a morgue on ACL nights. And that's with some of the biggest clubs in Asia on show. If the Mariners can't pull a crowd to watch Guangzhou Evergrande, who's going to come to watch Kitchee FC, or Pahang, or Arema Malang? Which begs the question – are fans even part of the consideration?"

"What's driving this agenda, of course, is money. CFG has plenty of it, but the likes of Charlesworth, Greg Griffin, Nathan Tinkler and Tony Sage are constantly chafing against the costs of running their clubs."

Who amongst you would remain a loyal fan of a club that doesn't really represent the local district fans, but is merely a cog in a money wheel of expanded Pan-Asia TV rights? Up front, I wouldn't. :(
 

rbakersmith

Well-Known Member
Fat on the fire ..

It's probably worth reading this article for context:
Football Federation Australia (FFA) could be on a collision course with a majority of A-League team owners after vetoing a plan backed by seven club chiefs to incorporate up to two teams from Asia in an expanded competition.

CEO David Gallop confirmed to The World Game this week that the governing body was not interested in courting teams from the likes of Singapore, Indonesia, Malaysia or Hong Kong.

But the issue looks set to be raised again at a meeting between FFA and club bosses in Sydney on 9 April.

A team of UK-based consultants, led by influential English agent Jon Smith, has been working on the project for four months after being enlisted by Central Coast Mariners owner Mike Charlesworth to canvass the Asian Football Confederation (AFC), FIFA and FFA on the viability of expanding into the region.

Initial discussions with Gallop in Sydney in November were followed up by lengthy talks with AFC officials in Bahrain earlier this month and then FIFA representatives in Zurich last week.

The plan is supported by Brisbane Roar, Newcastle Jets, Adelaide United, Perth Glory, Western Sydney Wanderers and the City Football Group, which controls Melbourne City.

But, despite what Charlesworth says is positive feedback from both the Asian and world governing bodies, FFA's preference appears to be to keep A-League expansion within Australia ahead of the next TV deal in 2017.

Charlesworth, who received official confirmation from Gallop this week that the idea is a non-starter from FFA’s perspective, insisted it’s a mistake not to embrace a populous continent which he believes would bring added value to the competition.

"There’s probably a glass ceiling for growth of the A-League right now, or at least to a level that’s needed to compete successfully with the other football codes," Charlesworth said.

"Expansion north can tap into tens of millions of football fans, significant commercial opportunity and subsequently a raft of top EPL marquee players who have already expressed an interest in helping grow football across the region.

"If we truly want football to become the biggest sport in Australia we need to be more ambitious and this platform would not only help us achieve that but put domestic Aussie football on the global stage.

"I think we need to be less insular in our approach. The FFA's priority seems to be the national team ahead of the A-League."

Charlesworth’s representatives, on the advice of the AFC, also met with World Sports Group which is behind the ASEAN Super League, a concept which Singapore and Malaysia have already put forward to FIFA and invited Australia to allow its clubs to participate in.

Adelaide United chairman Greg Griffin is forthright in his backing of Asian expansion, declaring: "There's a good groundswell there. Mike Charlesworth has a really good team working with AFC and in the Asian countries.

"If it takes our league into more populous areas, we are very happy to support it. It would a terrific thing to see a team from Asia in our competition.

"We can’t say we are part of the region and then do nothing other than paying lip service. We need to collaborate and cooperate … and if the interest is there from Asian entrepreneurs who perhaps want to improve their standards by playing week-in week-out in what I think is a strong competition, we should do it.

"We should lose this defensive mentality that the A-League is only about building up Australian football … because it’s not.

"It’s about creating the best possible league we can and a return on the investment from the owners who have put in significant sums.

"If we can increase the popularity of the competition, get a better TV deal, that’s more important to me than the view that we would in some way be strengthening say Singapore by letting them in. That argument is nonsensical, and I reject it."

Griffin believes domestic expansion has its limits, adding: "You can bring teams into places in Australia, but if they go broke who’s going to pick it up … if you are going to do it needs to be in the right location.

"Melbourne Heart didn’t work and wouldn’t have worked but for the buyout from the City Football Group, but there is clearly scope in Victoria outside the CBD. That’s a non-brainer ... when you look at somewhere like Geelong. Why that is not being pursued is beyond me.

"I would personally love to see two more teams from Australia and two in from Asia at some stage … 14 would be a terrific number."

Brendan Schwab, Special Counsel for Professional Footballers Australia (PFA), is less bullish about pushing the boundaries of the A-League.

He said: "Clearly it’s a complex issue … we would need to be satisfied that it is commercially and strategically sensible.

"It would need to be very carefully scrutinised in terms of broadcast rights, player welfare, cost of travel and footballing considerations.

"We only have to look at difficulties we have balancing Asian Champions League schedules to realise what problems would be associated with that.

"It’s important to focus on the sustainability of the 10-team competition you already have and look at moving into areas within Australia that are heartlands of the game.

"But in football you should never say anything is impossible. However, Asian expansion would be extremely ambitious and would be something we wouldn’t foreshadow happening in the near future."
 

nearlyyellow

Well-Known Member
It's probably worth reading this article for context:
Come on RBS, where do you stand? Do you support expansion inside Australia or in the region? Expansion in the region is a whole new ball game (pun not intended) and totally changes the concept of the A-League competition. There will probably be no salary cap, it will probably be open slather for imports, and where will that leave local youth development, if all we have an EPL type comp. it'll be all about money. There will be no local tribalism. See, this is what happens if we let the "Chooms" take over. :p :tinfoilhat: :popcorn:
 

nearlyyellow

Well-Known Member
It's probably worth reading this article for context:
The context is pretty much the same. It's a collision between the owners who want to make much more money from their investments, (ignoring for this argument the fact that most are not making any money, and probably wouldn't until the much mooted new Australian TV deal) and the ruling body. Interesting that SFC and MV don't seem to be interested in this "conference", and also a degree of caution from the PFA, which most of you would probably expect.
 

Roy Law

Well-Known Member
More shit stirring nonsense from Charlesworth; the sooner he goes the better. Very pleased that FFA don't want a bar of it. What part of the A don't these owners understand about the A League?
 

rbakersmith

Well-Known Member
Come on RBS, where do you stand?

I was presenting the article without comment.

FWIW I think the idea of expanding into Asia has merit, however I think there's still plenty of room for expansion inside Australia and that should be fully explored before we seriously contemplate including Asian teams in the A-League.
 

nearlyyellow

Well-Known Member
From rbs's context article

"A team of UK-based consultants, led by influential English agent Jon Smith, has been working on the project for four months after being enlisted by Central Coast Mariners owner Mike Charlesworth to canvass the Asian Football Confederation (AFC), FIFA and FFA on the viability of expanding into the region."

This means that pre Storrie, pre Moss sacking, pre I dunno what else :confused: MC was working on a plot to take more than a home game or two to the Northern Sydney suburbs, he was working on ways to almost make us disappear from CCS. Does he lie straight in bed at nights? :rolleyes:
 
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VicMariner

Well-Known Member
I think expanding into Asia has merit too.
Just from a commercial sense if we had 5 ASEAN teams in a 20 team comp how big would the TV deal be for the region? The HAL would be the top comp for a lot of people. Millions of people. Indonesia alone is around 250 million and they are football mad.

The salary cap does not have to disappear but with a larger TV deal we could raise it maybe enough to compete with the biggest AFC teams.
Football runs on money, like it or not.

"Fish where the fish are" is the FFA mantra but we have pretty much done that already. There are not many large population centers left without a HAL team. I don't like the idea of saturating Sydney and Melbourne with teams because it will diminish the derbies.

I'm not 100% sold on it but I'm not 100% against it either.
 

Wombat

Well-Known Member
It's ridiculous. The HAL is dwarfed by the Jap and Korean competitions and their teams usually dominate us.
It's complete wank and arrogance.
It's like the Dutch league saying we with allow 5 teams from Germany and Italy to join our comp.
 

midfielder

Well-Known Member
I think expanding into Asia has merit too.
Just from a commercial sense if we had 5 ASEAN teams in a 20 team comp how big would the TV deal be for the region? The HAL would be the top comp for a lot of people. Millions of people. Indonesia alone is around 250 million and they are football mad.

The salary cap does not have to disappear but with a larger TV deal we could raise it maybe enough to compete with the biggest AFC teams.
Football runs on money, like it or not.

"Fish where the fish are" is the FFA mantra but we have pretty much done that already. There are not many large population centers left without a HAL team. I don't like the idea of saturating Sydney and Melbourne with teams because it will diminish the derbies.

I'm not 100% sold on it but I'm not 100% against it either.

Rugby has the Super competition and its going backwards for years a very similar model,,,
 

nearlyyellow

Well-Known Member
It's dead, as we all knew it would be:

Asia not on the agenda for A-League, says Gallop

"Gallop has made it clear that while the FFA allowed the plan to be explored it was never likely to be approved"

"Apart from the fact that an Asian-Australian league was never likely to receive the statutory approval of either the Asian Football Confederation or FIFA, Gallop listed multiple reasons why the proposal was flawed: "It would have put us on a collision course with ASEAN's own plans to form a league, it would have been in direct competition to the Asian Champions League, it would damage our local television relationship with no guarantee of ratings success, there are significant travel and logistical problems, and clearly it is not going to dedicate resources to the development of Australian players."
 

nikko

Suspended
I think Charlesworth and Disco Nik might be great friends!
Charlesworth seams to consume Niks' Dicso biscuits like a Hoover because he is off his f**king chops most of the time.
I never thought the HAL would see a crazier owner than Fat Boy Palmer.

are you saying Nik Mrdja takes party pills?
 

MagpieMariner

Well-Known Member
I remember many years ago watching the cricket at SCG, and there were guys (Uni students, the ones I knew) going round through the crowd selling ice creams & dogs, doing a roaring trade. I'd be happy if the same happened at CCS, I no longer buy because of the queues. Give somebody a little bit extra income too.
 

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