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this is bullshit

dibo

Well-Known Member
Jesus said:
I dont think we could rule out a homebush style train link to wherever it went.
given how much that would cost and how little it would be used (we're never going to have to move 100,000 people per hour for 16 days straight) i think we could rule it out ;)

Jesus said:
Tear down bluey, one side at a time and build a better stadium, with larger capacity, and at least a partial roof

issues here - to get around the problems of the roads and railway you need permission to build over the top.

railway may be ok with it if you build entirely across the top (think chatswood or st leonards' stations) but the costs that come with this are *big*. there are bound to be a set of design rules though that are available and with sufficient consultation railcorp might be able to be sold on the idea. opens the possibility of a new north western entrance to the ground as well.

roads are if anything a simpler matter, simply because it's done in other places often enough.

the southern end is still a no-go zone though, so the task is to design a 3-sided stadium that can be brought up to* 40k capacity in the future within the given parcel of land. that means that you're looking at the sort of dimensions that a 4-sided stadium might have if it were 50-60k capacity. think along the lines of a 3-sided suncorp.


...actually, that is a seriously tasty thought. i'm not going to be able to get rid of that thought for days.

*i.e. it doesn't need to go there straight away
 

Jesus

Jesus
dibo said:
Jesus said:
I dont think we could rule out a homebush style train link to wherever it went.
given how much that would cost and how little it would be used (we're never going to have to move 100,000 people per hour for 16 days straight) i think we could rule it out ;)

Jesus said:
Tear down bluey, one side at a time and build a better stadium, with larger capacity, and at least a partial roof

issues here - to get around the problems of the roads and railway you need permission to build over the top.

railway may be ok with it if you build entirely across the top (think chatswood or st leonards' stations) but the costs that come with this are *big*. there are bound to be a set of design rules though that are available and with sufficient consultation railcorp might be able to be sold on the idea. opens the possibility of a new north western entrance to the ground as well.

roads are if anything a simpler matter, simply because it's done in other places often enough.

the southern end is still a no-go zone though, so the task is to design a 3-sided stadium that can be brought up to* 40k capacity in the future within the given parcel of land. that means that you're looking at the sort of dimensions that a 4-sided stadium might have if it were 50-60k capacity. think along the lines of a 3-sided suncorp.


...actually, that is a seriously tasty thought. i'm not going to be able to get rid of that thought for days.

*i.e. it doesn't need to go there straight away
yeah, i agree. That is the best way to go about it. Hell, lets not forget the govt could easily afford to buy out the leagues club.

obviously would not be the scale of homebush. But as long as they sorted out parking, some public transport, i dont think it would be an issue.
 

a.v

Member
imagine sitting in the third tier (if there was one) looking back down over the water to the south...that would be such a sensational view...

who knows, we may even get a few tourists popping in to check out the view, and watch a game of football while their at it.

like the idea of walkways back to the train station / car park etc. would have to stay three sided for mine though..it adds to the uniqueness of the ground.
 

Blackadder

Well-Known Member
Back on topic the club would be committing football suicide if they gave the green light to this move. Sure the one off payment by Stadium Australia would help the bottom line ,but for a club that has prided it self on being community based to go away from that is the ultimate insult to fans/sponsors, and not sure one that would be easily forgotten.
 

dannysgirl

Well-Known Member
WTF? I pay over a hundred dollars for my membership and I expect to be able to go to ALL home games. How the f*** am i sposed to get to a game at homebush if I am working the next day? Is my membership going to cover my travel costs? Will I be repaid for my petrol and allowed free parking? I highly doubt it. Actually it goes beyond doubt, I know it will not happen.
Sorry, but I am a bit pissed right now.

Honestly, I would probably go to the games if I could, but the problem is, I can't really afford the costs involved in getting there, and if our games continue to be played on sunday, I will probably just stay home simply because I will get home too late, or I won't finish work early enough to get there in time (it is after all, a long drive).

I hope this is just a rumour, and nothing eventuates. Otherwise there will be a lot of disappointed fans.
 
P

Pete

Guest
On this matter, I want to add a few more maybe's to what some folks more recently have been discussing.

Please note that this is all purely speculative, and no more than me trying to understand why the Mariners would even entertain such a silly notion.

:soapbox:

The last page or two of comments have been about infrastructure upgrades on the Central Coast, and expansion.

But what if the 'expansion' was to occur elsewhere and the Central Coast became a training facility and academy only, while main football operations and administration moved to *another* regional area of NSW, like west of Penrith? The Mariners have only proposed the academy and upgraded training facilities here. Everything else "Mariners" is leased.

To me, I can only see the Mariners wanting to get involved in the promotion of the game in western Sydney, if there was something in it for them.

Also, let's look at the HAL overall. We have 3 NSW teams. 2 teams from Qld have tried to get up but couldn't get in. In time, I suspect that at least one of these Qld syndicates will get qualified to enter HAL.

It is also crazy that there's only one HAL team in the whole of Victoria. In time, there should be another Victorian team too.

The push recently for a western Sydney team would have the other HAL teams yelling "NSW bias" pretty quickly, something that has been a major bugbear for Football in Australia, historically, for years.

And remember, the other franchises will have some sort of say up to HALv5 as to who gets in or not, but more importantly, the FFA would want the existing clubs to be happy with expansion plans, not ready to rebel.

It is now reported that Harry Kewell is wanting to throw some dollars into a western Sydney bid, and become a face for the syndicate. He is reportedly dead keen to have the western Sydney players given good opportunities to learn more.

Instead of having a new club based in western Sydney (and requiring the consent of Sydney FC up to HAL v5), why not relocate the NSW regional team franchise on the outskirts of Penrith - outside of Sydney metro area geographically - and tap into the western Sydney area from the west (instead of locating in Sydney and heading out).

There is reportedly a massive club in Penrith Panthers ready to get involved, the star value of H. Kewell, possibly support from clubs like Blacktown (who the Mariners already have some sort of association with) and maybe Marconi through Harry's allegiances there, and let's face it -Peter Turnbull himself has had an interest in the area too.

Not to mention the large industrial base out west, the larger junior population of players, the potential to turn 2 million people into football fans etc.

When you look at how the Mariners struggled initially to get the sponsors up here, and how they seem to be tapped into a smaller finite amount of fans and corporate base up here too, you can see that one way to vastly improve their corporate strength is to relocate to west of Sydney, have an association up here instead - with training facilities and an academy (and Lightning), utilise the business partnership with Panthers by use of Penrith Stadium, have offices out of the Sydney metro area. Would also get the club away from the 'squeeze' they face each time, with Newcastle to the north and Sydney to the south, presently. No need to pressure a State Govt about expanding Bluetongue in the future if demand gets strong, just relocate to Homebush if you are based out west of Sydney.

The FFA would then not have to look at yet another NSW team, which will placate the other HAL teams. Sydney FC will be grinding their teeth, but so long as the 'west of Sydney' regional status is maintained, I'd doubt there'd be little they could do, if a move was approved by the other HAL teams and the FFA.

Don't go ringing the club or having heart attacks over all this, as I said, I'm just trying to reason why a club based on the Central Coast would want to be kind hearted to the folks of western Sydney and move one of their home games to them.

With all my heart, I hope this is all so way off the mark that it is deemed ludicrous. But then again, so did the notion of playing a home game at Homebush up until the last week or so..
 

Bear

Well-Known Member
Spud said:
To me, I can only see the Mariners wanting to get involved in the promotion of the game in western Sydney, if there was something in it for them.

Money. They will get a bucket load of cash for taking the game there
 

Bex

Well-Known Member
Thats an extremely long bow to draw Spud. Central Coast Mariners are one of the most successful clubs in the HAL. Messing with the HAL in such a way at such a stage of infancy would be at the peril of the whole A-League. Whilst the FFA can make some strange decisions, I have to say I've got more confidence in them than that. After all, they were smart enough to setup the HAL and get it to the point its at now.
 

Bex

Well-Known Member
Bearinator said:
Spud said:
To me, I can only see the Mariners wanting to get involved in the promotion of the game in western Sydney, if there was something in it for them.

Money. They will get a bucket load of cash for taking the game there
How will that happen? I can't see the crowd being significantly bigger, so where will the money come from? Further, there will be damages from BlueTongue to pay. Are you implying that the FFA will pay the Mariners a lump sum for the inconvenience? In the words of the immortal Pauline Hanson, please explain.
 

dibo

Well-Known Member
Bex said:
Bearinator said:
Spud said:
To me, I can only see the Mariners wanting to get involved in the promotion of the game in western Sydney, if there was something in it for them.

Money. They will get a bucket load of cash for taking the game there
How will that happen? I can't see the crowd being significantly bigger, so where will the money come from? Further, there will be damages from BlueTongue to pay. Are you implying that the FFA will pay the Mariners a lump sum for the inconvenience? In the words of the immortal Pauline Hanson, please explain.

the olympic stadium pays tenants vast sums to play there, hence we've got in the NRL wests tigers, the buldogs, souths and now even the dragons playing home matches there.
 
P

Pete

Guest
Bex said:
Thats an extremely long bow to draw Spud. Central Coast Mariners are one of the most successful clubs in the HAL. Messing with the HAL in such a way at such a stage of infancy would be at the peril of the whole A-League. Whilst the FFA can make some strange decisions, I have to say I've got more confidence in them than that. After all, they were smart enough to setup the HAL and get it to the point its at now.

Define successful. Up to the time Peter Turnbull got involved, we were line ball financially. His input put us into the black and able to plan for the future better.

All clubs are franchises. The Mariners put up a business plan that got accepted, based upon regional location. But the HAL has been more successful than predicted. Hence more money/capital is needed to maintain momentum or be left behind.

The HAL has already lost the NZ Knights and had 3 owners in the Perth Glory club, plus they've had to look at proposals from (if you believe the press) South Melbourne, Gold Coast and Townsville, as well as accepting Wellington Phoenix. Its evolving and changing all the time to meet the rising image of the comp. and the market share of fans. A move of the Mariners would only upset (massively) the fans up here, but there'd still be a team coached by McKinna and captained by Wilko the next season - just won't be one located in Gosford.
 

Bex

Well-Known Member
Thats an outrage. I never voted to do that. What a waste of taxpayers money (assuming it is taxpayers money that is).

Well, I guess it is feasible that the Mariners might play there if the payment is large enough. Everyone has their price. They had better factor the cost of member's disdain into the cost of this though.

Imagine though if e.g. the payment gave us the funds to buy in Kewell (I know, wishful thinking), then I guess I could cop one game in a season at Homebush. I guess there could be other things that this could fund, but whatever they choose, CCM should ensure it benefits the fans directly as this is inconveniencing the fans directly.
 

Bear

Well-Known Member
dibo said:
Bex said:
Bearinator said:
Spud said:
To me, I can only see the Mariners wanting to get involved in the promotion of the game in western Sydney, if there was something in it for them.

Money. They will get a bucket load of cash for taking the game there
How will that happen? I can't see the crowd being significantly bigger, so where will the money come from? Further, there will be damages from BlueTongue to pay. Are you implying that the FFA will pay the Mariners a lump sum for the inconvenience? In the words of the immortal Pauline Hanson, please explain.

the olympic stadium pays tenants vast sums to play there, hence we've got in the NRL wests tigers, the buldogs, souths and now even the dragons playing home matches there.

Bingo. The money the mariners recieve will far exceed the loss in revenue for swithching the game, its the other side effects that the mariners should be worried about.

I f**king love my team, and its really hurting deep down knowing that they are considering doing this. When did they become so money hungry that they would rather the quick buck in the back pocket than building on the great community success they have already built? It feels like my club are playing a massive game of jenga, and the block tower is slowely starting to topple
 

Jesus

Jesus
Also it is likely they would get the cash from a tonne of sydney fans, whilst already having the members money.

The FFA has NO problem with more NSW teams. Lowy said himself tv numbers, the most important figure for the game, is far higher in the greater sydney region and nsw than anywhere else. As far as percentages go, NSW watches 10% more tv per capita than Victorians. Maybe a little more. Lowy has no problem bringing in a WS team, and no doubt a gong.

Sydney is the biggest market, and has the highest tv watching %. Hence much more money to be made there than victoria or qld. It is no problem with having 5 nsw teams in a 14 team comp. It only makes it slightly over represented in the total population. Which disregards the tv numbers. Also there would have to be a few hundred k to over a million people living in places which could never host a team. So not even really over represented.

Mariners would be looking at the potential 25k crowd money with little to pay for the stadium.
 

Bex

Well-Known Member
Spud said:
Define successful. Up to the time Peter Turnbull got involved, we were line ball financially. His input put us into the black and able to plan for the future better.

All clubs are franchises. The Mariners put up a business plan that got accepted, based upon regional location. But the HAL has been more successful than predicted. Hence more money/capital is needed to maintain momentum or be left behind.

The HAL has already lost the NZ Knights and had 3 owners in the Perth Glory club, plus they've had to look at proposals from (if you believe the press) South Melbourne, Gold Coast and Townsville, as well as accepting Wellington Phoenix. Its evolving and changing all the time to meet the rising image of the comp. and the market share of fans. A move of the Mariners would only upset (massively) the fans up here, but there'd still be a team coached by McKinna and captained by Wilko the next season - just won't be one located in Gosford.
Sorry Spud, still don't buy it. Perhaps its just my hugely biased mindset refusing to believe there is any chance the Mariners could ever leave the beautiful Central Coast.

Having said that, you mentioned it yourself that there has been instability around the franchises. Do you really think they take such a risk as to mess with a relatively stable franchise at this point in time?  

A move may only upset the fans on the Central Coast, but they have no guarantee that there is any instant increased crowd base out at Penrith. Sure, its likely they would equal the Central Coast in crowd numbers, but I can't see a business decision like this being made when you've got a proven supporter base in one hand and a "likely" supporter base in the other.
 

Bex

Well-Known Member
Perhaps what the FFA is hoping to achieve is to test the market to see what sort of crowd numbers they get. This could factor into future decisions about a new team in Western Sydney or, perish the thought, moving the Mariners to Wester Sydney (I still don't buy it).
 

Bex

Well-Known Member
Gopher of Pern said:
And how silly would the name be? Western Mariners?!? Theres no water out there!
Perhaps being based at Penrith Panthers they'll borrow the Marinators name rather than the Mariners :-D
 

dibo

Well-Known Member
there is one little bit of stupidity in here that's nagging away at me - if the FFA wants a west sydney team, logically that means that they're tagging SFC as an 'east sydney' team. why they'd want to pump up SFC and the mariners in the west (undercutting potential support for a west sydney team) is beyond me.

if it had been the grand final, at least you're selling a marquee event and you're selling the brand of the a-league at least as much as you're selling either of the clubs involved, but with this they would seem to me to be a little off-target.

from the mariners' point of view, i think every major effort they make to attract fans from *west* sydney will have a corresponding negative reaction from the parochial coasties who will feel neglected (as is obvious from reading this thread).

i'm 100% certain relocation won't be on the table: the FFA is going to continue to sell this comp as a success, with a series of 'victories' as they nail home their standards in various markets around the country. i don't think i'm being overly credulous to think that any notion of abandoning the central coast and relocating the team would be a pretty embarassing climb-down for the FFA. we've had that much 'golden child of the competition' media over the last three seasons that it just doesn't work with the rest of the media strategy. it's basically saying that contrary to the glowing press releases at the time, the last three years were all about puff-pieces and soft journalism, and really the whole thing was a financially disastrous clusterf**k we couldn't wait to get out of.

not only that, it doesn't work with the long-term planning that they're talking about. when they're talking about establishing clubs in markets like north queensland (a smaller market than the central coast) it would also be contradictory to ditch the coast.
 

SNOWMARINER

Well-Known Member
It seems I'm not the only one thinking that such a strange rumour could have more to it. Personally i wondered if our management was trying to involve Northern Sydney knowing that some fans are already in that area.

I hope not. Gosford is do-able, ANZ is not.

I really hope your theory is not true spud, well go back to being the CC nothings.
 

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