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The 'Let's just unbunch our frickin panties for a moment' thread
- Thread starter dibo
- Start date
dibo
Well-Known Member
The impression I get is that people want *something* done. What that is, nobody seems too sure except for our resident fruitbat above who seems to want us to storm the office with pitchforks and demand satisfaction without actually defining what satisfaction is.
We can't feasibly cancel player contracts or sack the coach - we don't have the money for either, we'd utterly f**k ourselves salary-cap wise with the former and we're not exactly overrun with candidates for the latter. Nobody but David Votoupal has seriously suggested any replacement coaches and his ideas were wikipedia specials rather than people we might have some chance of hiring.
There are movements happening - new players and future developments are in the news and will only accelerate as we move closer to the silly season. We're not going to win the comp this year so I think the focus is very much on next year and the years that will follow.
We've been pretty lucky so far all told - we could be Brisbane, Welly, Perth, Adelaide, Sydney or even the Jets - all of whom have had at least as much turmoil as we've had for little if any more success.
Basically Melbourne's the only club that we would have any cause to be jealous of. What's been their hallmark? Stability and avoiding drastic change for the sake of it.
We're not going to make the finals every year. We're not going to be at the top all the time. We're not going to make every second grand final.
This is OK! This is what following football IS. You have some pretty ordinary years. If you can't cope with a shit year or two then there's really not much point sticking around. We'll see you next time the bandwagon comes around.
We can't feasibly cancel player contracts or sack the coach - we don't have the money for either, we'd utterly f**k ourselves salary-cap wise with the former and we're not exactly overrun with candidates for the latter. Nobody but David Votoupal has seriously suggested any replacement coaches and his ideas were wikipedia specials rather than people we might have some chance of hiring.
There are movements happening - new players and future developments are in the news and will only accelerate as we move closer to the silly season. We're not going to win the comp this year so I think the focus is very much on next year and the years that will follow.
We've been pretty lucky so far all told - we could be Brisbane, Welly, Perth, Adelaide, Sydney or even the Jets - all of whom have had at least as much turmoil as we've had for little if any more success.
Basically Melbourne's the only club that we would have any cause to be jealous of. What's been their hallmark? Stability and avoiding drastic change for the sake of it.
We're not going to make the finals every year. We're not going to be at the top all the time. We're not going to make every second grand final.
This is OK! This is what following football IS. You have some pretty ordinary years. If you can't cope with a shit year or two then there's really not much point sticking around. We'll see you next time the bandwagon comes around.
fruitbat
Well-Known Member
Have they carved GCU's headstone?
[/quote]
No, but I hope we bury them regardless.
But Fruitbat, come on, saying lift the seating cap or we boycott... is a liiiiiiiiitle different than win or we boycott.
As stated many times, I think the high expectations high demand is a juvenile approach and not one a smaller community based club like ours, certainly at this point in its development, can afford. Big picture needed.
[/quote]
Yeah I hope we bury them too.
I wasnt saying "win or we boycott" (That was Dibo's spin on it), I was saying "Let us have some input or we boycott".
I know what you are saying about high expectations, but I dont think think its good to say that its OK to drop standards either. We need players who hit the field thinking that they have reached a high point in their career by playing for us and who dont want to let the rest of the team down with an average performance.
[/quote]
No, but I hope we bury them regardless.
But Fruitbat, come on, saying lift the seating cap or we boycott... is a liiiiiiiiitle different than win or we boycott.
As stated many times, I think the high expectations high demand is a juvenile approach and not one a smaller community based club like ours, certainly at this point in its development, can afford. Big picture needed.
[/quote]
Yeah I hope we bury them too.
I wasnt saying "win or we boycott" (That was Dibo's spin on it), I was saying "Let us have some input or we boycott".
I know what you are saying about high expectations, but I dont think think its good to say that its OK to drop standards either. We need players who hit the field thinking that they have reached a high point in their career by playing for us and who dont want to let the rest of the team down with an average performance.
FFC Mariner
Well-Known Member
I'm sure the club will be happy to allow you input. Take your money along and put it on the line alongside theirs.
At that point, you can have all the input you want.
As football fans, we are masters of blurring the line between customers and owners. We feel an ownership but our financial commitment is that of a customer.
Maybe the club could allow a fans trust to try to subscribe for a small shareholding but I wouldnt be holding my breath on that.
At that point, you can have all the input you want.
As football fans, we are masters of blurring the line between customers and owners. We feel an ownership but our financial commitment is that of a customer.
Maybe the club could allow a fans trust to try to subscribe for a small shareholding but I wouldnt be holding my breath on that.
MagpieMariner
Well-Known Member
Did a little looking at this & of the clubs mentioned, Adelaide are the only ones to do better than us:dibo said:
1 x plate; 1 x preseason; 2 x losing GF; 3 x ACL.
US: 1 x plate; 1 x preseason; 2 x losing GF; 1 x ACL.
Of the others, Brisbane, Welly & Perth - nothing; Sydney - 1 x toilet seat, 1 x ACL; Jets - same as Sydney.
Melbourne of course are miles in front, but we are 3rd on the achievement list using those criteria, so we should be bloody proud.
As for turmoil, we've had periods of lack of success (we're having one now), but I wouldn't call that turmoil, at least not in the same vein as those other clubs mentioned. I exclude Welly here, the Kiwis' turmoil was the Aukland whatever-they-were-called.
fruitbat
Well-Known Member
quote author=dibo link=topic=4173.msg134921#msg134921 date=1263435044]
The impression I get is that people want *something* done. What that is, nobody seems too sure except for our resident fruitbat above who seems to want us to storm the office with pitchforks and demand satisfaction without actually defining what satisfaction is.
We can't feasibly cancel player contracts or sack the coach - we don't have the money for either, we'd utterly f**k ourselves salary-cap wise with the former and we're not exactly overrun with candidates for the latter. Nobody but David Votoupal has seriously suggested any replacement coaches and his ideas were wikipedia specials rather than people we might have some chance of hiring.
There are movements happening - new players and future developments are in the news and will only accelerate as we move closer to the silly season. We're not going to win the comp this year so I think the focus is very much on next year and the years that will follow.
We've been pretty lucky so far all told - we could be Brisbane, Welly, Perth, Adelaide, Sydney or even the Jets - all of whom have had at least as much turmoil as we've had for little if any more success.
Basically Melbourne's the only club that we would have any cause to be jealous of. What's been their hallmark? Stability and avoiding drastic change for the sake of it.
We're not going to make the finals every year. We're not going to be at the top all the time. We're not going to make every second grand final.
This is OK! This is what following football IS. You have some pretty ordinary years. If you can't cope with a shit year or two then there's really not much point sticking around. We'll see you next time the bandwagon comes around.
[/quote]
Dibo, Dibo, Dibo, (sighs again)
Comrade, I think most people would like to know that problems are being addressed. Someone earlier suggested a sort of open forum. I think thats a great idea, but what happens if management arent interested?
LOL! I love the imagery of pitchforks in the boardroom but this is your spin on things not mine. I have also defined satisfaction above if you take the time to read.
As for recruitment, I agree that player/manager contracts cant just be cancelled, but serial non-performers should be ditched at the earliest opportunity.Re a replacement for McKinna, how did Sydney FC find their new bloke? There is talent out there to be found, i'm not sure we should just sit around waiting for the perfect replacement to knock on the door. (By all means wait until his contract expires, but have a worth while replcement ready).
There wil be good years and there will be bad years, no question about it. Most people can accept this provided the team/management/franchise do thier very best to achieve success.
Hey FFC,I also suggested you share idea to Lyle Gorman earlier this year but he didnt seen interested.
The impression I get is that people want *something* done. What that is, nobody seems too sure except for our resident fruitbat above who seems to want us to storm the office with pitchforks and demand satisfaction without actually defining what satisfaction is.
We can't feasibly cancel player contracts or sack the coach - we don't have the money for either, we'd utterly f**k ourselves salary-cap wise with the former and we're not exactly overrun with candidates for the latter. Nobody but David Votoupal has seriously suggested any replacement coaches and his ideas were wikipedia specials rather than people we might have some chance of hiring.
There are movements happening - new players and future developments are in the news and will only accelerate as we move closer to the silly season. We're not going to win the comp this year so I think the focus is very much on next year and the years that will follow.
We've been pretty lucky so far all told - we could be Brisbane, Welly, Perth, Adelaide, Sydney or even the Jets - all of whom have had at least as much turmoil as we've had for little if any more success.
Basically Melbourne's the only club that we would have any cause to be jealous of. What's been their hallmark? Stability and avoiding drastic change for the sake of it.
We're not going to make the finals every year. We're not going to be at the top all the time. We're not going to make every second grand final.
This is OK! This is what following football IS. You have some pretty ordinary years. If you can't cope with a shit year or two then there's really not much point sticking around. We'll see you next time the bandwagon comes around.
[/quote]
Dibo, Dibo, Dibo, (sighs again)
Comrade, I think most people would like to know that problems are being addressed. Someone earlier suggested a sort of open forum. I think thats a great idea, but what happens if management arent interested?
LOL! I love the imagery of pitchforks in the boardroom but this is your spin on things not mine. I have also defined satisfaction above if you take the time to read.
As for recruitment, I agree that player/manager contracts cant just be cancelled, but serial non-performers should be ditched at the earliest opportunity.Re a replacement for McKinna, how did Sydney FC find their new bloke? There is talent out there to be found, i'm not sure we should just sit around waiting for the perfect replacement to knock on the door. (By all means wait until his contract expires, but have a worth while replcement ready).
There wil be good years and there will be bad years, no question about it. Most people can accept this provided the team/management/franchise do thier very best to achieve success.
Hey FFC,I also suggested you share idea to Lyle Gorman earlier this year but he didnt seen interested.
Forum Phoenix
Well-Known Member
dibo said:
Excellent post. Well phrased. This is the reality of our situation, as far as I can surmise also.
Fruitbat, seems everybody is in agreement about having some more dialogue with the club...
Just not with the activism or the assumption that the club is not doing their very best to achieve success. They may fail or fall down in some areas, it is human endeavour after all, but I don't think its a given that we should therefore jump to questioning their integrity or efforts. Given our track record and the clubs demonstrated vision and committment, it would seem a tad foolish and also ungrateful imo.
We have achieved a lot so far against the odds. and all things considered, I'm probbaly far more confident that we will continue to do so in the long term than I have been at any time in the past.
Just a few more key signing/tweaks, and I think we will really have it all on and off the park
However, right NOW, I understand we shouldn't be happy about losing. But that doesn't mean we have too unrealistic or overly reactionary about it either. Baby with bathwater...
This situation can really can be as simple as some guys are leaving, some guys are young and inconsistent, some guys have been experiencing slumps... and so we've lost several home games...
If our team hits form again this seaon, we'll recognise the problem largely for what it is I believe, a lapse in form, not much more, not much less.
We've also exposed a few short comings in our squad that need to be addressed...
And have begun acquiring new players... Just standard football procedure for those not leading a comp really...
I'm not happy about losing. But i'm not unduly phased by it either.
pjennings
Well-Known Member
FFC Mariner said:
This is why I suggested an forum. I doubt we will have much input - unless management hear a suggestion they hadn't thought of. However, a simple explanation of what is going on is often all that is needed. When people are told why decisions were or are being made then often this sort of frustration is diffused.
Communication seems to be the issue. I would just prefer a constructive forum than a boycott.
Wombat
Well-Known Member
dibo said:
TOP POST.
I'll whinge when its needed but i'll always follow CCM regardless and feel lucky to have a great team to follow literally 5 mins from where i live.
This year was always going to be tough but we improved massively from the debacle at the end of last year and even had a great run for a while.
Bring on next season.
I don't think a boycott is the right way to go. Encouraging football on the coast with our kids and community is too important. RL will find any excuse to encourage kids/families to play/watch league at the expense of football. A boycott would not be in the interests of football on the coast in the long term- just something RL could latch onto.
Secondly I am a teacher and I get far more out of my students by positive and honest encouragement rather than negativity. Negativity usually just ends up in defensiveness, defiance ,arcing up or giving up. The same goes as far as I am concerned for communicating with either the players or the CCM organisation.
I think a measured and intelligent discussion/ communication with the powers that be is far more likely to result in desired results.
Secondly I am a teacher and I get far more out of my students by positive and honest encouragement rather than negativity. Negativity usually just ends up in defensiveness, defiance ,arcing up or giving up. The same goes as far as I am concerned for communicating with either the players or the CCM organisation.
I think a measured and intelligent discussion/ communication with the powers that be is far more likely to result in desired results.
Forum Phoenix
Well-Known Member
Good post Sally.
bikinigirl
Well-Known Member
FFC Mariner said:
. do we have a clipboard function here? that way i can quote this every couple of hours as the need arises
pjennings said:
. can't disagree that more (honest) communication would be a good thing ... but if you are talking about contractual negotiations and the like - recruitment, succession planning, etc (and mostly people are) can we ever really expect more than a few wank words and motherhood statements. none of that really helps ... i am happy to discuss if you have any specific examples
. with regards to a forum (in whatever form it would take) it is extremely difficult to work properly. if anybody has been to a public, community based meeting/forum you will understand
. once courses of action or future plans are explained many people often understand ... however there are always objectors and this is where the problem lies
. the objectors always seem to be the loudest, most closed-mind individuals who can rarely, if ever be swayed from their point of view. this point of view may have some merit but in the greater scheme of things is just not feasible ... and this leads to all manner of problems
. not the least of which is that the people who are meant to be working hard for the cause are now caught up in some public slanging match where their logic and thought out plans will never be given the respect it deserves ... no doubt their ability to deliver on their 'day job' will suffer
. now if you just consider how well we work together on this forum and always reach a clear and concise point of view with complete concensus you may understand the issues the club would face with any forum ... and some of us must spend hours everyday on here
MagpieMariner
Well-Known Member
Watching them play still excites me because I love the game and I love the team. My feeling is one of frustration.cruiser said:
Then again I've followed Collingwood for 50 years, so I should be used to it.
Roy Law
Well-Known Member
Spike, you are just like my neighbour. He'd only been to one Mariner's game before I took him to the three ACL games. Incredibly he was hooked. Hasn't missed a game since and just loves the whole thing. The last two home games he has been working late but still turned up at half time. He's got the shirt, the scarf and the cap, and a Membership (sic). He'll be there next weekend and he'll pay up for his membership next year. He's new but he is a diehard, and we have the strongest diehard group in the comp.
MagpieMariner
Well-Known Member
I'm the same. My daughter and son-in-law (Krusty) took me to a pre-season match against Glory three (I think) years ago. I figured I could be bored in the fresh air just as well as inside, but even though we lost 3-2 and according to Krusty we played shite, I was bitten. I went to all the home matches that year, got all the gear and haven't looked back. Wouldn't change a thing.Roy Law said:
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