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The EPL thread

dibo

Well-Known Member
serious14 said:
Remind me again, when was the last time you won this.........

premier-league-trophy.jpg

yawn.

i'd much rather think about the football coming up in this country, and that's what i do spend more time thinking about, rather than following a team for whom football is like FIFA with all the cheats on.
 

serious14

Well-Known Member
dibo said:
serious14 said:
Remind me again, when was the last time you won this.........

premier-league-trophy.jpg

yawn.

i'd much rather think about the football coming up in this country, and that's what i do spend more time thinking about, rather than following a team for whom football is like FIFA with all the cheats on.

icon_lol.gif
icon_lol.gif
icon_lol.gif
icon_lol.gif
icon_lol.gif


Nothing quite so funny in life as a bitter Scouse fan......
 

dibo

Well-Known Member
meh. i care about how liverpool goes, but i care far more about what's happening on these shores in the next few days.
 

FFC Mariner

Well-Known Member
Post of the week from the unofficial Fulham MB (as we lose 3 straight and the usual rants appear)

Some of you are acting as if you've just started supporting Fulham yesterday.

Some of the remarks below are frankly something I only expect to find on a glory hunters website or on some random 10 year olds scribble notebook.

You chose to follow Fulham... Now suffer!

Or go rant to your old man (or whoever first took you down for your first game.)
 

dibo

Well-Known Member
Interesting Paul Tomkins' column on http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/:

Okay, it must end NOW! I've reached breaking point. The shocking transfer myth must be put to rest, once and for all.


I've tried in the past, but the media misinformation continues to gather pace like some ill-founded rumour. It's dangerous, because it causes unjust criticism.

Let's make one thing clear: Liverpool have nowhere near the most expensive squad in the Premiership.

No. Where. Near.

Indeed, there are three clubs who have spent at least 50 per cent more on their current squad than Liverpool.

Shocked? Well, you should be if you believe what's spouted out on TV. But it's true. And one of the clubs is not a name you'd necessarily expect.

It doesn't help that some people such as Jamie Redknapp last night focus on Rafa's gross spend, rather than the net amount. Effectively, this means counting all the right-backs he's bought as one big outlay, rather than looking at how he's replaced one with another for roughly the same 2m fee.

Working with just the gross spend, you add the 2m of Josemi to the 2m value of Kromkamp (even though it was a swap), to the 2.6m paid for Arbeloa. But none of these players were at the club at the same time, and each was traded to get to the point where an outright success was secured, as happened with the final purchase.

So even though the total cost of getting Arbeloa was just the 2.6m paid, people will use a figure almost three times as high. That is illogical.

(Another note, Jamie: Liverpool have three right-backs on the books, not just one; but the promising Darby, like Arbeloa, was injured and Degen has had a first season ruined by various ailments. So it's wrong to criticise the manager for an unbalanced squad and playing a midfielder out of position when three right-backs are unavailable.)

It's like the housing market: you don't just go in and buy a mansion straight from school. (Okay, so maybe some footballers do, but not the normal people of this world. As someone stuck with renting, I'm speaking generally here!)

You start with an affordable house; you then use the money from selling that to buy your next property. Most people can only get to own a big house having traded their way up over a number of years.

Yet when someone asks how much you spent on your house, you don't add all the houses you've ever bought together, do you?

If you own a 220,000 house, you don't say 470,000 because you add the 90,000 starter home and the 160,000 step up. That would be moronic.

According to the excellent and reliable www.LFCHistory.net, Rafa's gross spend is approximately 188m, but his net spend is only 108m, given that around 80m has been recouped.

(I'd hazard a guess that a large proportion of the 108m net spend has also been recouped through Champions League progress rewards, particularly with the Reds being the top-ranked team based on his five-year tenure.)

So it's easy to pluck a figure of '195m' from the air, live on air, and make it seem like that should make a team champions, or ultra-close challengers.

But it's only the cost of the current squad that counts. Because that's all a manager can choose from; he can't go back in time and select a player he sold in order to trade up, just as you can't just turn up to one of your old houses and let yourself in.

You simply cannot add Rafa having spent 5.8m on Sissoko to the 18m on Mascherano, because the two were never part of the same set-up; one was bought and sold for a profit, and as with a house, the money reinvested in a step-up. If Sissoko isn't bought and then sold, Mascherano probably doesn't arrive.

Is that really too tough to grasp?

From my own experience in writing 'Dynasty', I can attest that researching transfer fees is never easy, given the amount of undisclosed fees and various add-ons (for various things, like appearances, trophies won, national caps and the cultivation of unexpectedly daring hairstyles).

But taking each fee as the most a club has expect to pay when add-ons are activated, I've calculated the cost of the most expensive squads in the league, and listed them below.

(Note: while it's impossible to be 100 per cent accurate with the figures in the public domain, I'd say that overall it's at least 95 per cent of the true amount, and with rival teams I've actually been generous and excluded a couple of players whose cost just isn't listed anywhere I could find.)

The most expensive squads (excluding players out on long-term loan) are as follows:

Chelsea 207m
Manchester United 206m*
Spurs 188m
Manchester City 140m
Liverpool 127m

(*226m if Carlos Tevez's deal made permanent, given that it is initially a unique two-year 10m agreement, and very different from 99.9 of transfer deals. Effectively United are winning games with a 30m player.)

So what does this tell us?

Let's start with the leaders. United's squad contains the most home-grown players, such as Giggs, Scholes, Neville, O'Shea, Brown and Fletcher, who all arrived for free.

So that shows that it is a long-established core supplemented by a lot of expensive signings added one by one to a unified collection. In other words, classic, spot-on building of a squad when already established at the very top.

But it shows that even if you work with the unfair use of Rafa's gross spend, it still doesn't match what Ferguson has spent on his current squad, let alone those who have been bought and sold for record fees in the past.

And this is utterly, utterly critical, and beyond the grasp of some people who cannot analyse things with common sense.

After all, what does it matter how much Rafa has spent since 2004 if Ferguson is currently fielding players like Ferdinand (30m) and Ronaldo (12.8m) who were bought before then?

Isn't Rafa in the real world competing with a team whose construction started well before he arrived?

Unless Ferguson is banned from fielding players like Ferdinand and Ronaldo (which would be illogical), or forced to start from scratch in 2004 (again illogical), it is not a fair comparison, is it? I mean, come on, use your brain for a second here.

After all, how much as Harry Redknapp spent since he took over at Spurs? I make it almost 50m. How much has Rafa spent since Harry Redknapp took over at Spurs? Nothing. But only a nutter would compare the two in this deeply skewed way.

Rafa has been in his job about five times as long as Harry, so you obviously wouldn't dare compare their teams. And yet Ferguson has been in his job about five times as long as Rafa, and yet the Spaniard is expected to have Liverpool as champions by now.

Chelsea and Spurs are actually the more interesting examples in many ways. I knew Spurs had spent a lot, but to have a current squad that cost almost 200m shocked me. Add together the cost of Bentley, Pavyluchenko, Palacios, Bale, Defoe, Bent, Keane and Modric and you more-or-less end up with the cost of Liverpool's entire squad.

I could be sarcastic or media-style sensationalistic and say that with that much spent, any manager should be able to win almost all of his matches, but it wouldn't be fair or logical. It's far more complex than that, and even a good manager like Redknapp has his work cut out.

Chelsea and Spurs have had seven managers between them since 2007. This means different men making expensive signings and ending up with a mixed squad. Based on expenditure, both of these clubs are massively underachieving this season. Almost certainly to blame for that is the hierarchy having itchy fingers when it comes to firing managers.

Of course, this analysis doesn't include wages, either. You don't get the very top players in the world without also having to pay them a king's ransom. Michael Ballack must be most expensive free transfer ever, with wages reported to be around 130,000 a week, or about 30m over five years. Again, Liverpool are no way near the highest payers, either.

So there you have it. By all means print it out and pass it around; 'pass it on', as the saying goes, including to those in the media who could do with reading it. By all means quibble over some of the finer details, as there is a tolerance of a few percent on the accuracy of the figures, but the overall gist is very much sound and robust.

Note: as all good schoolteachers tell you to do, my workings are there to see, and will be available to view on my website.

He's got all the working out here for those who are interested.

No question Man U have the best squad, and fair play to them because much of the talent is brought through the youth system - frankly much more so than Liverpool even if the rest of the talent is plundered from elsewhere.

There is a quality deficit, no doubt. Scratch beyond the first 11 (or even some of the first 11 - Babel? Kuyt?) and there's not the same glint as you get with the others. Some of the expensive players (Babel again, Dossena) are not what you'd call great buys. So the performances are I think pretty stunning even if it's a permanent source of frustration that they never get up to that top echelon. But the notion that they could cost more than the other top squads seems nonsensical, and that's what Tompkins has sought to show.
 

serious14

Well-Known Member
Hehehe, good to see Jose is always there for a headline.....

http://football365.com/story/0,17033,8652_5040967,00.html

Greater Manchester Police are investigating an allegation of common assault against Jose Mourinho following last night's Champions League tie between Manchester United and Inter Milan at Old Trafford, according to the Press Association.

It has been alleged Mourinho punched a supporter close to the Inter team bus as he left the stadium following his side's 2-0 defeat.

GMP have contacted United to request CCTV footage of the area and have confirmed a complaint has been made.

"Shortly before midnight last night a man reported that he had been punched in the face outside Old Trafford," a police statement read.

"We are investigating an allegation of common assault."

United would only confirm they are aware of the allegation and are making no further comment.
 

serious14

Well-Known Member
FFC Mariner said:
Inters top boy at it again

Jose - Mmmmmmm, very good Mr. Alex, excellent win at home last night.

Alex - *chew* *chew* *chew*  Orright den dere pretty boy, who was it ya clobbered like??

;D
 

tuftman

Well-Known Member
serious14 said:
FFC Mariner said:
Inters top boy at it again

Jose - Mmmmmmm, very good Mr. Alex, excellent win at home last night.

Alex - *chew* *chew* *chew*  Orright den dere pretty boy, who was it ya clobbered like??

;D

I reckon they'll have Sven bandaged up
 

serious14

Well-Known Member
http://football365.com/story/0,17033,8652_5044432,00.html


Manchester United striker Wayne Rooney has lit the fire ahead of Saturday's top-of-the-table clash at Old Trafford by declaring he still "hates Liverpool" and is determined to crush their title dream for another year.

In a set of remarks that have now been removed from United's official website due to their incendiary nature, Rooney has been quoted as saying: "I'm very excited about the game because I grew up as an Everton fan hating Liverpool and that hasn't changed. We're in pole position in the title race and we know if we can beat Liverpool it will almost certainly put them out of it. For everyone at United, and especially myself, that would be a great feeling.

"It's a massive fixture for both clubs, especially with what's at stake,' he added. 'For me, it's our biggest game of the season."

Both teams go into the mouthwatering encounter on the back of fine wins in the Champions League, even if United were not firing on all cylinders in beating Inter Milan 2-0.

As for Liverpool, they demolished Real Madrid 4-0 at Anfield and must now be in the mood to clinch a victory over United that would keep them in the title hunt.

While appreciating Liverpool would be almost out of the picture if United did triumph, centre-back Rio Ferdinand is wise enough to know the fat lady would not quite be singing just yet.

"They've had a good week, getting a great result against Real Madrid," remarked Ferdinand on Liverpool's superb effort against the Spanish champions.

"We're in for a tough game with a great atmosphere, a different entity altogether (compared to Inter), and one we can't wait for.

"Could it end their title chances? Possibly, yeah. But we still have games after that to win. It's the same at this stage of the season all the time.

"People say, 'If you win this game, you win the league', but it just continues until it's mathematically over and one team wins it, and hopefully that will be us.

"If we win, it will obviously make it hard for them but I couldn't care what happens to Liverpool as long as we beat them.

"If we do that and that leads to people thinking they're out of it, then so be it.

"We're there to win games, we're at home and people will be expecting us to get the three points.

"Fingers crossed we can go out there, do a good job and give a good account of ourselves."

As United continue their assault on the quintuple, all eyes will not only be on Saturday's game but next Friday's Champions League draw that will plot a path to the final in Rome.

With all four Premier League teams through to the last eight, there is the prospect of another all-English final.

Rooney is looking forward to the draw, although he is far from concerned who stands in his side's way of becoming the first team to retain the Champions League crown.

"Whoever we get, we know it will be a difficult one because there are clearly no easy games at this stage of the competition," said Rooney. "We saw that against Milan as it was a difficult, close game, and both teams had a few chances each. Thankfully we took ours.

"We knew it would be a different game to the one in Milan and we could have done better at times to stop them taking those chances. But we're delighted we're through, and that's the main thing."


:fireup: :fireup: :fireup: :fireup: :fireup: :fireup: :fireup: :fireup:
 

scottmac

Suspended
What can you say, the boy has blue blood! He has been raised well.

Will be back in Mersyside Blue at some stage during his career.  8)
 

Arabmariner

Well-Known Member
FFC Mariner said:
Post of the week from the unofficial Fulham MB (as we lose 3 straight and the usual rants appear)

Some of you are acting as if you've just started supporting Fulham yesterday.

Some of the remarks below are frankly something I only expect to find on a glory hunters website or on some random 10 year olds scribble notebook.

You chose to follow Fulham... Now suffer!

Or go rant to your old man (or whoever first took you down for your first game.)
Your lot are trying to do a Hull atm and get back into the relegation zone........wtf ?
 

serious14

Well-Known Member
FFC Mariner said:
the verb is "Fulhamish" the ability to do everything the hard way

Synonym for "Mariner-esque" one might say??


scottmac said:
What can you say, the boy has blue blood! He has been raised well.

Will be back in Mersyside Blue at some stage during his career.  8)

Once a Blue, always a Red.  ;)
 

scottmac

Suspended
Part_Timer said:
then the main game STOKE V everton....come on you potters

Is Delap Playin? Couldn't stand to be beaten by a f**kin throwin again. (felt like a loss)

Hate watchin the toffee's against these teams, we will always find ways to turn what should be a good win into dull, boring draws.
Especially relegation favourites. :eek: :eek: :eek:

serious14 said:
2 and a half hours until kickoff....... :eek:

:fireup: :fireup: :fireup: :fireup: :fireup: :fireup: :fireup: :fireup: :fireup: :fireup: :fireup: :fireup: :fireup: :fireup: :fireup: :fireup: :fireup: :fireup: :fireup: :fireup: :fireup: :fireup: :fireup: :fireup:

Actually really lookin forward to this one. Should be a cracker. Hope the shite get screwed sideways with Nemanja Vidić's boot.  :piralaugh: :piralaugh: :piralaugh:
 

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