The COVID Chat

[Ironbark]

For mine it's a numbers game. There is a tiny (and like really tiny, 1/1,000,000) chance of death from AZ and between 1/10 and 1/100 chance death from covid. Much higher chance for long covid.

At current infection rates and knowing that as we open almost everyone is in line for getting covid at some stage, we all stand in that 1/10 and 1/100 chance death from covid - unless vaccinated.

Playing the odds, the choice becomes this :
a) Risk of 1/10 to 1/100 death vs 1/1,000,000 death from AZ
or
b) wait for pfizer and risk the 1/10 to 1/100 death in the delay time whilst waiting, ducking and weaving the virus and riding luck until then
or
c) I guess the third choice is worry about 10 year effects that are considerably more unlikely again and simply run the 1/10 to 1/100 risk of death gauntlet outright

 

[marinermick]

I think I've got a meme for every argument, but this can switch out for vaccines just as easily
View attachment 1857

The thing is, about this, I don’t get on builder’s social media pages and tell them that the way they are all making an a-frame roof is wrong because some dodgy builder or social media random on another site told me that all the houses will fall down in ten years because industry practices are wrong.

Why do people with no science or medical training think that it is okay to do the same with vaccines?

 

[Ironbark]

The thing is, about this, I don’t get on builder’s social media pages and tell them that the way they are all making an a-frame roof is wrong because some dodgy builder or social media random on another site told me that all the houses will fall down in ten years because industry practices are wrong.

Why do people with no science or medical training think that it is okay to do the same with vaccines?

...or climate...

 

[scottmac]

The thing is, about this, I don’t get on builder’s social media pages and tell them that the way they are all making an a-frame roof is wrong because some dodgy builder or social media random on another site told me that all the houses will fall down in ten years because industry practices are wrong.

Why do people with no science or medical training think that it is okay to do the same with vaccines?

The line that really irks me is "you've got your opinion and I've got mine" or when faced with evidence "we're never going to agree so....". If you've made up your mind on whatever it is you've seen or been told then good for you. But if your willing to air that, you better come prepared with something.

 

[greenlig]

I have a cousin who is violently anti-vax, very much a MSM/Sheeple kinda gal. There's a point after which any evidence contrary to their beliefs actually reinforces those beliefs. It's wild. No surprise that it pairs nicely with Christian fundamentalism...My recollection is a little rusty, but there's a verse in the Bible with the essential import "the more they rail against you, the more right you are." Fantastic mechanism for digging your heels in!

EDIT - Not to knock Christians or open this up to jumping on their necks, just an observation as an ex-fundamentalist

 

[true believer]

The thing is, about this, I don’t get on builder’s social media pages and tell them that the way they are all making an a-frame roof is wrong because some dodgy builder or social media random on another site told me that all the houses will fall down in ten years because industry practices are wrong.

Why do people with no science or medical training think that it is okay to do the same with vaccines?

money , like andrew wakefield . the grift from covid relies on fear and outrage.
like wakefield you find all their pseudo experts are selling vitamin D , invermectin (worming tables) etc .

 

[marinermick]

I feel personally attacked

Nah I’m booked for AZ. I’m really not fussed between the jabs. I’ve put enough random shit into my body throughout my 20s that was made and distributed by people far less qualified.

Excuse me, my old fashioned and negroni making skills should not come into question here.

 

[bikinigirl]

lol Dibo did you just come in from the cold to troll? Love it.

. oi! ... just because the new bloke posted in a highly opinionated thread straight up doesn't mean he is a troll

 

[Wombat]

I have a cousin who is violently anti-vax, very much a MSM/Sheeple kinda gal. There's a point after which any evidence contrary to their beliefs actually reinforces those beliefs. It's wild. No surprise that it pairs nicely with Christian fundamentalism...My recollection is a little rusty, but there's a verse in the Bible with the essential import "the more they rail against you, the more right you are." Fantastic mechanism for digging your heels in!

EDIT - Not to knock Christians or open this up to jumping on their necks, just an observation as an ex-fundamentalist

The Christian thing is a bit left-field Greeny!?

I didn't want to get vaxed but I am for 2 reasons.

1. The Delta strain is nasty (all countries have been wacked unless is a global media conspiracy).
2. It's blatantly obvious the Govt are going to restrict the unvaccinated. If I lived in the bush I wouldn't bother but i'm missing Bali and Thailand so i'm going to bite the bullet.

If my posts sounds more like Gibbo's than normal, you will know why.

 

[Wombat]

Reminder that some people have suffered fatal side effects and died after being vaccinated with AZ.

Yes the number is statistically tiny, yes you might argue it's because of underlying conditions, but they still died after receiving the injection. If that was your immediate relative you might have a different view.

There can be side effects and as much as you "kinda" know there won't be long term side effects, you don't know. These vaccines have not been used long term outside of clinical trials. Given the tiny number with clotting side effects from AZ, there "kinda" might also be a tiny number with long term issues arising.

That doubt is not significant enough in my opinion to prevent the rollout. The benefits do outweigh the risks, but it doesn't mean they don't exist.

100%. Not just from blood clotting either BUT what options do we have. We always knew a vaccine was the way out, I personally hoped for some newer, more fine tuned vaccine and I thought Moderna might be it...... but figures in UK show adverse reactions are slightly higher than Pfizer so i'm biting the bullet and getting AZ now.
BTW when the Govt were publishing the death rate (its tiny) from the Jabs. Pfizer was marginally higher than AZ but those figures are no longer available.

 

[Jimmy]

I have a cousin who is violently anti-vax, very much a MSM/Sheeple kinda gal. There's a point after which any evidence contrary to their beliefs actually reinforces those beliefs. It's wild. No surprise that it pairs nicely with Christian fundamentalism...My recollection is a little rusty, but there's a verse in the Bible with the essential import "the more they rail against you, the more right you are." Fantastic mechanism for digging your heels in!

EDIT - Not to knock Christians or open this up to jumping on their necks, just an observation as an ex-fundamentalist

Religions and conspiracy theories share similar thought processes.

When faced with a logical question or problem for something. They just make a loose link, wild guess or a nothing answer such as "Gods will" or "The Government don't want you knowing".

At least science can openly say. "We don't know why, but we're working to find out and will change our teachings to suit when we have a better answer".

I'm ex-religious and the gullibility and denial of science from both sectors is obvious.
I have zero tolerance to those who fail to use logic.

 

[true believer]

100%. Not just from blood clotting either BUT what options do we have. We always knew a vaccine was the way out, I personally hoped for some newer, more fine tuned vaccine and I thought Moderna might be it...... but figures in UK show adverse reactions are slightly higher than Pfizer so i'm biting the bullet and getting AZ now.
BTW when the Govt were publishing the death rate (its tiny) from the Jabs. Pfizer was marginally higher than AZ but those figures are no longer available.

i completely disagree with both your posts .
but what i say to you is . wakefield's attack on the mmr vaccines was an attack on your home land .
go and find out what that guy did . and remember he did it to grift no matter the damage done .

 

[Wombat]

i completely disagree with both your posts .
but what i say to you is . wakefield's attack on the mmr vaccines was an attack on your home land .
go and find out what that guy did . and remember he did it to grift no matter the damage done .

No idea what you are talking about TB???? Please be a bit more specific so i can look into what you are talking about......at the moment I only understand you don't agree with something i posted.

 

[Insertnamehere]

That'll do me, over and out.

Did you know that choking is the 4th leading cause of unintentional death? So while you think I'm being obtuse, it is reciprocal based on evidence.

 

[Ironbark]

Life is terminal

 

[marinermick]

It is interesting comparing Victoria last year with NSW now in Covid fatalities.

With similar case numbers Victoria has eight hundred deaths and we’ve had eighty. I know we are probably better at treating serious Covid but it is a clear indication that vaccines are working

 

[true believer]

No idea what you are talking about TB???? Please be a bit more specific so i can look into what you are talking about......at the moment I only understand you don't agree with something i posted.

andrew wakefield , "the father of anti-vaxxers" .wrote a paper attacking the UK, MMR vaccines .
he fraudulently claimed they were the cause of autism . while developing his own vaccine to sell .
the AZ is a proven vaccine who's tech has been around for decades . that's why the russians stole it from the english and rebadged it as their own .

i've posted this already . you should watch .then ask yourself how is wakefield still living

 

[Ancient Mariner]

It is interesting comparing Victoria last year with NSW now in Covid fatalities.

With similar case numbers Victoria has eight hundred deaths and we’ve had eighty. I know we are probably better at treating serious Covid but it is a clear indication that vaccines are working

The difference is the number of patients in nursing homes vaccinated then and now.

 

[Corsair]

I challenge you to find a vaccine that has side effects that occur after years

I've done some sniffing around on this, i couldn't find an example that didn't have dubious origin. There are certainly vaccines that have been pulled from use, usually because a more effective/less dangerous replacement has been developed. So I'll concur that it seems highly unlikely that there will be any long term (longer than 2-3 months) side effects....actually i already said that earlier, but now I'm more confident.

 

[pjennings]

It is interesting comparing Victoria last year with NSW now in Covid fatalities.

With similar case numbers Victoria has eight hundred deaths and we’ve had eighty. I know we are probably better at treating serious Covid but it is a clear indication that vaccines are working

Let's compare apples and apples.

655 Vic deaths were in poorly run federally controlled aged care facilities. None occurred in those run by the Vic Dept of Health. They skew the data markedly.

Still, even then, Vic would still have double the number of deaths, so vaccines are having an affect on deaths as well as hospitalisations