Round 17 - Away to the Scum

[RobC]

Mick you and Chris are the last remaining voices on this forum with any sense.

I agree

 

[MrCelery]

Mick you and Chris are the last remaining voices on this forum with any sense.

I am amazed at the numbers here,
who watch the game once (see maybe 50%),
have no access to tapes,
have no access to players,
have no access to training,
have no experience at higher level football (or no experience at all),
and then pile shit on Lawrie's methods.

Unfortunately this forum is being taken over by the loud and ignorant.

I agree that Mick and Chris post some sensible posts, but I don't think they are exclusive at all. There are many others.

And I certainly want to read opinions that are varied - funny, sad, well constructed, rants, passionate, friendly, insulting, long, short, informed, ill-informed, factual, utter BS, witty, dry, controversial, sensible, etc.

This is not the 'University of Football', it's a f@#k'n forum.

Your post comes across as very snobbish, but that's OK too.

 

[LFCMariners]

I think some of the Lawrie-bashing that goes on here is a bit overblown. Let's be real here- he is the only coach still in charge since the A-League began, in every finals series we have contested we have reached the final game, and in the space of 4 seasons we have picked up the Pre-Season Cup and been officially recognised as the BEST team last season.

Compare that to $ydney who have gone steadily downhill since their lone Grand Final victory, Perth who are only just starting to find their old NSL form and Queensland who, for the exclusivity and the money they have available, get paltry crowds to their home ground and have (thus far) only finished in the top 4 ONCE.

As for that Shit up the freeway- HA!

 

[mariners4ever]

I think some of the Lawrie-bashing that goes on here is a bit overblown. Let's be real here- he is the only coach still in charge since the A-League began,

ernie merrick FYI FFS

 

[FFC Mariner]

Managing teams has certain common elements whether its football ,the army or in the business world.

Some common ones are:-

A reliance on people who have served you well in the past and are loyal to you

Making mistakes (tactics or strategy)

A good manager can make allowances for tactical mistakes and make changes (as per Boxing Day), strategic mistakes (buying shit footballers for example) can often be fatal.

As a club, we make the same amount of tactical mistakes as others. What we seem to avoid are the massive strategic f**k ups that ruin a season (Jardel, Aloisi to SFC etc etc)

Thats why Lawrie has survived because he and his team get the big things right.

 

[mariners4ever]

Thats why Lawrie has survived because he and his team get the big things right.

yes, except for the "grand finals"

 

[FFC Mariner]

In the grand scheme of things, post season cup finals mean f**k all

 

[~Floss~]

Something that would make the forum unbearable would be sifting through 1,000 unread posts every day that all say "Mariners Rulez" and "Lawrie iz da bestest!"

I think to a certain extent some members may only post if they think they can spark some debate, offer criticism, polarise readers' opinions, etc. No point posting something everyone agrees with. Likewise if your view has already been stated by someone else you're likely to stay quiet.

...until someone stirs the pot and upsets the silent majority, but that's fun too IMO.

Bottom line: the forum is not an accurate representation of the views of all its members. It's not even a random sample.

 

[MrCelery]

Managing teams has certain common elements whether its football ,the army or in the business world.

Some common ones are:-

A reliance on people who have served you well in the past and are loyal to you

Making mistakes (tactics or strategy)

A good manager can make allowances for tactical mistakes and make changes (as per Boxing Day), strategic mistakes (buying shit footballers for example) can often be fatal.

As a club, we make the same amount of tactical mistakes as others. What we seem to avoid are the massive strategic f**k ups that ruin a season (Jardel, Aloi$i to SFC etc etc)

Thats why Lawrie has survived because he and his team get the big things right.

+1

Although I would rate our Grand Final appearances as 'Big Things' and we've not quite got that right so far!

 

[MrCelery]

Bottom line: the forum is not an accurate representation of the views of all its members. It's not even a random sample.

Either a true 'statto' or market researcher has spoken!

 

[LFCMariners]

Thats why Lawrie has survived because he and his team get the big things right.

yes, except for the "grand finals"

1. To put 2006 into perspective, the Smurfs had spent more money on Dwight than we had on our entire squad. That we came as close as we did to squaring the match up before fulltime is a big testament to the heart of that squad.

2. Shield screwed up MAJORLY. There is a perfect case for the game having been won 2-1 by us on penalty goals. Everybody except the Scummers are aware of this.

 

[MrCelery]

Yes, the officials screwed up with Holland's 'Arm of God', but we were very average on the day and out foxed, considering we smashed them 3 - 0 in the previous match.

 

[LFCMariners]

It was a scrappy game- they only scored off an uncharacteristic Vidmar lapse. Even if I followed the Scum (shudder) I don't think I'd feel very inclined to watch that whole match again- it was hardly an advertisement for "the beautiful game". You get those sometimes...

 

[FFC Mariner]

One day, Australians will realise the GF's are held NOWHERE and are just a sop to pay tv and an inferiority complex we seem to have that makes us think we need to match the lesser codes

 

[LFCMariners]

GF's have only been played in our national comp since 1978, it was a way of outsiders who grew up on Aussie Rules or League being able to understand the competition format better.

Anyone who knows the game of football well enough will tell you that, with the exception of knockout comps like the World Cup/ FA Cup, it's stupid to award championship status to a team based on one 90 minute game. Does this mean that the Scum were a better team in 2008-09 than the Tards because they beat them last weekend?

 

[David Votoupal]

I maintain that Sydney FC were clearly lucky in the V1 Grand Final, and they certainly weren't the best side throughout the A-League's first season.

In terms of tactics and coaching, McKinna is definitely better than several coaches that have passed through the league's ranks, but let's be brutally honest- the standard of coaching and tactics in this league leaves a fair bit to be desired. Vidmar, Merrick and Farina have all been criticised at one time or another by their own clubs' supporters for tactical decisions, yet all three have their teams in the top four alongside McKinna.

Central Coast Mariners are, along with Melbourne Victory and Adelaide United, one of the best-managed clubs in the league. None of those clubs have been free of fault and all have missed the finals at least once, but as said above none of those have made the colossal blunders that Sydney, Newcastle and Perth all have. (Except maybe AU signing Agostino, even though he was long inconsistent and injury prone)

 

[blastbum]

 

[MrCelery]

One day, Australians will realise the GF's are held NOWHERE and are just a sop to pay tv and an inferiority complex we seem to have that makes us think we need to match the lesser codes

Grand Finals are Cup Finals you have when you don't have a Cup Final.

I'm a 'first past the post' fan myself, but I live in my adopted country of Oz, so acknowledge that GF's have an important space in out football calendar. Maybe in future years when the importance of qualifying for the Asian Cup is more fully recognised, the GF will be seen as a bit of a novelty match only.

 

[LFCMariners]

I maintain that Sydney FC were clearly lucky in the V1 Grand Final, and they certainly weren't the best side throughout the A-League's first season.

In terms of tactics and coaching, McKinna is definitely better than several coaches that have passed through the league's ranks, but let's be brutally honest- the standard of coaching and tactics in this league leaves a fair bit to be desired. Vidmar, Merrick and Farina have all been criticised at one time or another by their own clubs' supporters for tactical decisions, yet all three have their teams in the top four alongside McKinna.

Central Coast Mariners are, along with Melbourne Victory and Adelaide United, one of the best-managed clubs in the league. None of those clubs have been free of fault and all have missed the finals at least once, but as said above none of those have made the colossal blunders that Sydney, Newcastle and Perth all have. (Except maybe AU signing Agostino, even though he was long inconsistent and injury prone)

It's interesting that the well-run clubs (Adelaide, Melbourne, us) have all won the Premiership, while the clubs making blunders (Sydney, Newcastle) have won the Grand Final but slid downhill from there (gradually in Sydney's case, vertically in the Scummers case).

 

[Razorback]

I maintain that Sydney FC were clearly lucky in the V1 Grand Final, and they certainly weren't the best side throughout the A-League's first season.

In terms of tactics and coaching, McKinna is definitely better than several coaches that have passed through the league's ranks, but let's be brutally honest- the standard of coaching and tactics in this league leaves a fair bit to be desired. Vidmar, Merrick and Farina have all been criticised at one time or another by their own clubs' supporters for tactical decisions, yet all three have their teams in the top four alongside McKinna.

Central Coast Mariners are, along with Melbourne Victory and Adelaide United, one of the best-managed clubs in the league. None of those clubs have been free of fault and all have missed the finals at least once, but as said above none of those have made the colossal blunders that Sydney, Newcastle and Perth all have. (Except maybe AU signing Agostino, even though he was long inconsistent and injury prone)

It's interesting that the well-run clubs (Adelaide, Melbourne, us) have all won the Premiership, while the clubs making blunders (Sydney, Newcastle) have won the Grand Final but slid downhill from there (gradually in Sydney's case, vertically in the Scummers case).

All very good points but when you distinguishing these teams i think it is better to look at the whole administration of the club and not just the club team managers. This is especially true when looking at Perth, Sydney and Newcastle.

I think it is how the whole organisation is run from the top down which determines whether a club will be successful. Look at most clubs throughout the world... managers chop and change regulary but the club often remains successful ie the big clubs in Europe.