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RD 4 Mariners V Sydney FC

Big Al

Well-Known Member
The ref should make every decision based on that moment only and should not take into account previous incidents.

If the ref didn't give a 2nd yellow then SFC would have every right to be upset.

The ref never thought he got the penalty wrong, so won't be going for a make up call as you say.

Refs are like judges some have reputations for being harsh and some for being lenient. As a player you need to know who is who.

Look at Liverpool vs Chelsea ref went the caution option to Lucus and is copping crap for it. Our ref could have done that to but he didn't and therefore people are saying he made one huge mistake not two.

At the end of the day it's such a shame we are talking about a ref on probably our boys best performance for 2 seasons
 

style_cafe

Well-Known Member
Certainly looked like a celebration to me. He didn't run to the cove, but he was 'throwing shakas' and cheering with his new teammates from where I was sitting.
I`ve certainly seen him more animated than standing still raising his arm when he has scored...
 

Wombat

Well-Known Member
I can see what TB is saying.

Ref made shocking call missing the Pen.
Fitz is fouled but in turn gets booking for diving. (A Sydney played later takes a dive and no card)
Fitz is steaming about the booking and missed penalty and makes a rash challenge.
The rash challenge is bookable but I seen worse, waved "play on".

The booking leads to a straight red due to the Ref's earlier incompetence or blatant cheating (which ever way you look at it).

Posco, M.Neil and Fitzy all made rash challenges but some of the Sydney players were far worse.
 

Capn Gus Bloodbeard

Well-Known Member
Refs second yellow was fine. So Gus is right. But had the ref lost control through poor decisions? And did that help provoke Fitzy's ill judgement? Yeah I think that's what I saw happening on the field.
As Dibo and Gus said TB, Fitzy still bares responsibility for his lack of control/poor judgement - provocation does not make you guiltless. But I think you're right in that the refs job is also to keep things under control and in the right competitive spirit, not just call fouls and blow whistles for goals. That guy was a buffoon, and it wouldn't have surprised me remotely if someone else dove in and got a straight red. You see it all the time. (The player should still be sent TB) but the ref should be held accountable also. It is a reflection of poor refereeing - but I think Gus would accept that.
As an former referees assessor, if I was assessing a game where this sort of thing happened, I'd be acknowledging that the referee may have handled the second caution appropriately and credit him appropriately (after all, the referee doesn't get to 'even out' his mistakes by making another one). But in terms of overall impact upon the match, I'd be highlighting that the earlier error is what caused the frustration, hence the error has had a defining impact upon the game in multiple ways (because when assessing referees, it's important to look at how one decision impacts upon the game). Saying that, and saying Fitzy is wholly responsible for his actions there aren't mutually exclusive.
As a referee (well, also former) I know I've made errors which have directly led to a player responding and getting sent off, and it left me gutted - knowing that even though the player is responsible for his own actions and I had no choice, but it was my mistake which caused the problem. One of the worst things you can face as a referee, IMO.
It was obvious when Fitzy argued after the first yellow and pointed at the penalty spot that he was upset. That was the time the referee needed to control the game. He missed the opportunity and really had no choice but to card fitzy for the second yellow.
Out of interest, how would you propose he control the game at that point? I don't think CCM's response to the non-penalty was anything particularly different to the response that occurs to half a dozen other incidents each week, so I don't think stopping the game to talk to the captains was particularly justified......not trying to be a smartarse or anything, genuinely curious.


For what it's worth, credit to Fitzy for at least being mature enough to accept the red card - but I think he knew he had screwed himself the moment he left the ground.
Look on the bright side - the post-mortem on this game will hopefully highlight the importance of staying focussed and in control rather than losing it by worrying about the referee, which could be an important early lesson for this fairly young team. I thought it was a very solid performance (still concerned about our finishing though), and it was really only because we got done for speed in the back line right at the end of the match that we lost the game. Maybe that was the result of playing a man down, maybe not.

For all the talk about Matty Simon, he had no hand in actually building up the goal - that was the winger - and there was nothing particularly creative about his positioning there. So any striker would have found themselves in the same position. and most strikers should have been able to score.

My point is, everybody's freaking out about the fact that we conceded 2 goals because we lost Matty Simon. I reckon if it had been any other decent striker on the pitch instead we still would have conceded those same 2 goals (and if we hadn't, it would really only be courtesy of the striker screwing up!). Simon's first goal was very lucky anyway - without that defensive deflection, Izzo was all over it. So personally, I'm not as worried about Simon's impact on that game as many others are
 

Rowdy

Well-Known Member
I`ve certainly seen him more animated than standing still raising his arm when he has scored...

God YES!

Remember when scoring and then running to Bay16 to celebrate and took out the supporting pole & rope holding up the goal netting - got all tangled in his boot like a dolphin, fought out of like a tiger shark continued on with the adrenaline & embraced those on the fence.

Pure Yellow Gold!
 

Rowdy

Well-Known Member
As an former referees assessor, if I was assessing a game where this sort of thing happened, I'd be acknowledging that the referee may have handled the second caution appropriately and credit him appropriately (after all, the referee doesn't get to 'even out' his mistakes by making another one). But in terms of overall impact upon the match, I'd be highlighting that the earlier error is what caused the frustration, hence the error has had a defining impact upon the game in multiple ways (because when assessing referees, it's important to look at how one decision impacts upon the game). Saying that, and saying Fitzy is wholly responsible for his actions there aren't mutually exclusive.
As a referee (well, also former) I know I've made errors which have directly led to a player responding and getting sent off, and it left me gutted - knowing that even though the player is responsible for his own actions and I had no choice, but it was my mistake which caused the problem. One of the worst things you can face as a referee, IMO.

Out of interest, how would you propose he control the game at that point? I don't think CCM's response to the non-penalty was anything particularly different to the response that occurs to half a dozen other incidents each week, so I don't think stopping the game to talk to the captains was particularly justified......not trying to be a smartarse or anything, genuinely curious.


For what it's worth, credit to Fitzy for at least being mature enough to accept the red card - but I think he knew he had screwed himself the moment he left the ground.
Look on the bright side - the post-mortem on this game will hopefully highlight the importance of staying focussed and in control rather than losing it by worrying about the referee, which could be an important early lesson for this fairly young team. I thought it was a very solid performance (still concerned about our finishing though), and it was really only because we got done for speed in the back line right at the end of the match that we lost the game. Maybe that was the result of playing a man down, maybe not.

For all the talk about Matty Simon, he had no hand in actually building up the goal - that was the winger - and there was nothing particularly creative about his positioning there. So any striker would have found themselves in the same position. and most strikers should have been able to score.

My point is, everybody's freaking out about the fact that we conceded 2 goals because we lost Matty Simon. I reckon if it had been any other decent striker on the pitch instead we still would have conceded those same 2 goals (and if we hadn't, it would really only be courtesy of the striker screwing up!). Simon's first goal was very lucky anyway - without that defensive deflection, Izzo was all over it. So personally, I'm not as worried about Simon's impact on that game as many others are

Have to agree. Very good, constructed synopsis on the ref's decisions and the thought processes involved.
 

Rowdy

Well-Known Member
My point is, everybody's freaking out about the fact that we conceded 2 goals because we lost Matty Simon

Dont know about 'freaking-out'. Some disappointed that it was Matty that sealed the win for Syd & it was with x2. For those some that hurts doubly.

'Losing' Matty wasn't why we conceded goals. Its called ... poor defence.

But not me, I'm with you ....
So personally, I'm not as worried about Simon's impact on that game as many others are
I reckon if it had been any other decent striker on the pitch instead we still would have conceded those same 2 goals (and if we hadn't, it would really only be courtesy of the striker screwing up!)
 

Rowdy

Well-Known Member
For all the talk about Matty Simon, he had no hand in actually building up the goal - that was the winger - and there was nothing particularly creative about his positioning there.

Amazing what a little good service can do for a 'washed-up' striker.

I'm actually glad IT WAS Matty that scored and more so that he got a 2nd. As you said, "if it wasn't him, it would've been another Syd striker" that would have taken advantage of our poor defence. So why not it be him. ;)

It shuts the mouths of all those 'Cover's' pissed off that Arnie signed a 'hack'.

Especially the one on the Syd Forum who hated him & said his missus reckoned that Matty Simon 'looked like a Seagull' o_O

Well I guess Matty swooped on those x2 goals at The Tongue like they were tossed 'hot-chips', had his fill and flew south for his next day in the sun at the beach. :cool:
 

Capn Gus Bloodbeard

Well-Known Member
Haha, true. And Matty was one of the few strikers we've had who would normally capitalise on those opportunities quite consistently.

The service can make such a huge difference to the striker. Or a player in general. A player can be amazing in one team, and less useful than a witches hat in another. The problem is - and no fault to Matty - I felt like his presence wasn't doing the team any favours. This is more coaching and recruitment, but it just seemed like, after his golden boot year, the entire team strategy was often 'kick it to matty!' (on those rare occasions we kicked it forwards). The cruel fact is that he may well have fit into our new team structure much better than he has the last few season!

But oh well, this is the game we all follow, and sometimes we lose our favourites. I still miss having Vukovic on the team!

(Danny! What's the score?)

Matty brings out a funny reaction in people. On one of the forums I frequent people can't stand him. I just concluded it's the'coast' factor, hating on him just because he's a good player in the team that people still think has no right being in the comp, and the player that helps this little team stick it to the big guys - if he had always played for Sydney or Melbourne or some such people wouldn't care. But screw it, nobody rates us and we don't care!
 

Capn Gus Bloodbeard

Well-Known Member
Whirlpool. I don't really frequent any others that talk about the HAL (except a couple of FB ones I've only just joined). They really seem to hate him on there :p

I'd be interested if others have had different experiences on other forums...
 

VicMariner

Well-Known Member
Whirlpool. I don't really frequent any others that talk about the HAL (except a couple of FB ones I've only just joined). They really seem to hate him on there :p

I'd be interested if others have had different experiences on other forums...

No, everyone universally hates him. He is very good at being a pest and getting under the skin of defenders.
TBF we would hate him too if he played all his time at the Jets.
 

nebakke

Well-Known Member
Whirlpool. I don't really frequent any others that talk about the HAL (except a couple of FB ones I've only just joined). They really seem to hate him on there :p

I'd be interested if others have had different experiences on other forums...

My view on this is probably coloured by whirlpool as well... Certainly there's one or two Jest supporters there who aren't necessarily his biggest fans there ;-) but yeah - it seems to be born out on 442 as well though... Often it feels a bit like a general view on a lot of the older guard as well though like those who played in the NSL for example. On top of that Matty was one of those players who embodied a club so there's a natural dislike there as well...
 

pjennings

Well-Known Member
It was obvious when Fitzy argued after the first yellow and pointed at the penalty spot that he was upset. That was the time the referee needed to control the game. He missed the opportunity and really had no choice but to card fitzy for the second yellow.


Out of interest, how would you propose he control the game at that point? I don't think CCM's response to the non-penalty was anything particularly different to the response that occurs to half a dozen other incidents each week, so I don't think stopping the game to talk to the captains was particularly justified......not trying to be a smartarse or anything, genuinely curious.

Maybe it was badly worded. The point was there was only going to be two ways to control the game after such a controversial call. One was to take the first opportunity to simmer play down, the other was to use his cards. He chose the second, or more correctly, Fitzy made the choice for him.

I guess I was saying that was the ref's chance to settle play down. As you note these incidents happen each week - but it was a major call that Fitzy was arguing about.
 

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