RD 19 Mariners V P Ants

[Wombat]

Arnie didnt devise the 4231, it has become the most popular shape in football. I think if you did a little reading up on the subject you may grow an appreciation for it. I'd recommend leopold method where there is an article on why 7 of 10 aleague teams are playing it

7 of the 10 a league teams are gash.

Only Adelaide and Brisbane are football sides. The drive bys are similar to us.

 

[Wombat]

The players are either capable or they're not. If they are, we need to give them time to work into the shape.

If not, the people who signed them ought to carry the can. Arnie's already gone, but his record on signings was not 100% positive (Mrdja, Perez*, McDonald, Pellegrino, Musialik, McClenahan, Sutton...).

*Yes, really, I'm putting him in this list. He did pretty things, but in my view he wasn't as effective as he might have been had he not lingered on the ball (see also Rogic, T.) and allowed the defence to close up his options, and he got homesick part way through the year - that's not the mark of a successful signing.

I'd hate to call you an idiot Dibo but your slagging of Perez and blind support of limited players like Hutcho and Porter make me think something is not quite right upstairs?
Maybe it's a racist thing?

 

[Wombat]

On the quality - I think you're wrong, wombat, in your assessment of the other teams last season. Roar definitely weren't at their best, but I still think a lot of that was closer related to everyone lifting a notch than it was about a heavy drop in qualitty. It's not like everyone were brilliant, but the quality was an overall improvement on the season before, which is why that was also the first season where you would note that the teams were starting to struggle with the traditional run down the flank followed by a pass into the penalty area, by last season, most defenses had finally caught on to that.
This leads into the tactical bit... Could I suggest, with my limited understanding of the tactics, that perhaps the shape is of less concern than how we use it (much like the size ;P~~). My gut feel is that the 442 could work well, if we tried to play the ball into position rather than the current tendency to regress a couple of seasons and always trying to pass it in, high. I think Matty is strong enough to make up for the relative lack of technical skills, to hold the ball up and get through a defence, if he doesn't have to deal with all four defenders at a time, I'm less certain about Duke, but I'm certainly willing to give it a try, if nothing else then simply because he might still provide the good countering opportunities, so perhaps, in a sense, really play something like the 4-2-3-1 but with Matty as one of the 3, sitting a bit higher, so-to-speak.. I dunno, it's probably complete insanity as I'm sure the tendency would be for him to quickly end up as a #10 without the skills. It's just that, I think that he has better defensive skills and intent than most forwards... That's not to say that he's defensive, just more so than many of his ilk
Anyway, the idea being that it would free Duke to play in that high line, much like Bernie and Macca used to and let Matty try to work the ball though... Oh I dunno, it's sounding more and more like a regular #10 anyway, wtf do I know? But I'm posting it anyway, 'cos it's the Intarweb and if I can't air out my ridiculous thoughts here, where can I?

Wrong.

Brisbane were an awesome side the previous two years.

When we played then in a semi at BT they mauled us and their speed of play was unheard of in the HAL.
Only Bozanic was able to match them that night and sadly we got done badly.

 

[dibo]

I'd hate to call you an idiot Dibo but your slagging of Perez and blind support of limited players like Hutcho and Porter make me think something is not quite right upstairs?
Maybe it's a racist thing?

There's no way to politely respond to that.

 

[Wombat]

Lol.
So..........

 

[sydmariner]

I'd hate to call you an idiot Dibo but your slagging of Perez and blind support of limited players like Hutcho and Porter make me think something is not quite right upstairs?
Maybe it's a racist thing?

mrdja=

 

[nebakke]

Wrong.

Ha! It's a good thing that you don't do confrontational replies mate ;-)

Brisbane were an awesome side the previous two years.

When we played then in a semi at BT they mauled us and their speed of play was unheard of in the HAL.
Only Bozanic was able to match them that night and sadly we got done badly.

I'm assuming that we must be taking about different games here, because if it was the semi, two seasons back,
The one before the Perth fiasco, Gillett was reffing and did so poorly he was booed of, by the crowd. In fact, that was the first time I remember noticing that they're escorted off by a couple of security guards. We were beaten - 2-0? - but I don't recall it as being that sound a thrashing.
Anyway, that doesn't really prove anything except that Brisbane was the better team in that season, I didn't say they weren't... In fact, I agreed... All I said was that just about everyone else improved quite significantly before the start of last season.. Granted, it's combined with all of the uncertainty going on at Brisbane as well.

Besides, Adelaide were quite a good looking team at the start of last season, Brisbane did much better at the end, Jets had an OK start as well, as you might recall, Victory too, looked very good around the middle of the season and Perth had a spell of coming good towards the end... Most of those teams would have absolutely thrashed their equivalents this year.

Sofar, Adelaide, Heart and Wellington look better than they did last year IMHO, and the last two didn't have to try very hard for that to happen

Sydney? Well they were a shambles then and they are one now

 

[nebakke]

I'd hate to call you an idiot Dibo but your slagging of Perez and blind support of limited players like Hutcho and Porter make me think something is not quite right upstairs?
Maybe it's a racist thing?

You're just looking to start another fight now aren't you?

I mean, I know that racism doesn't tend to be logical or consistent, but still...
By rights, wouldn't that mean that you'd also expect to see a slagfest for Kim or Bernie?... Or Caceres?... Or at least Flores, courtesy of a similar ancestry...

We have plenty of non-anglo players in the team, even a "Maltese" captain as you might recalle...

 

[iEatHands]

mrdja=

He's gonna find you and do unimaginable things to you...

 

[sydmariner]

He's gonna find you and do unimaginable things to you...

 

[tsd]

7 of the 10 a league teams are gash.

Only Adelaide and Brisbane are football sides. The drive bys are similar to us.

Brisbane revolutionised this league over the last 3 seasons playing 4231

Thank you. You finally proved my point better than I managed to!

 

[nikko]

did someone post a pic of Nik Mrdja?

 

[sydmariner]

did someone post a pic of Nik Mrdja?View attachment 134

I still wish we had sonic

 

[Kareem]

Brisbane revolutionised this league over the last 3 seasons playing 4231

Thank you. You finally proved my point better than I managed to!

Neither proves your point???
Brisbane revolutionised the league with a 4-3-3...winning 3 titles!

Brisbane didn't play with a "4-2-3-1" until last season.
And they still are yet to win a title!
(Should win one soon though)

Ps. I love 4-2-3-1, but make sure you are talking about the right formation before making your point!

 

[tsd]

Neither proves your point???
Brisbane revolutionised the league with a 4-3-3...winning 3 titles!

Brisbane didn't play with a "4-2-3-1" until last season.
And they still are yet to win a title!
(Should win one soon though)

Ps. I love 4-2-3-1, but make sure you are talking about the right formation before making your point!

It may have been listed officially as a 433, but they played with a double pivot, single striker, overlapping fullbacks and wingers so it is effectively a 4231

 

[Kareem]

It may have been listed officially as a 433, but they played with a double pivot, single striker, overlapping fullbacks and wingers so it is effectively a 4231

Single striker, overlapping fullbacks and wingers are all correct...but only one DM!

 

[Kareem]

I take a keen interest in football tactics and formations Etc.
Obviously I am not the only one. But I have been obsessed with a 4-2-3-1 for years...Before it became mainstream

I was in heaven, when Arnie adopted it. I just don't rate 442s. And side note: I think we just need to tweak our 4-2-3-1 like Dibo suggested rather than returning to the 4-4-2.

Ironically Benitez is one of the coaches who helped to develop it lol...and I can't stand him.

Brisbane have played with a 4-3-3 the last 3 years
There are 2 popular midfield variations of 4-3-3 (with coaching modifications I am sure there are more)

1) the first 4-3-3 midfield variation resembles the widely popular 4-2-3-1.
Teams that use it are bayern Munich (2013), madrid, Dortmund, arsenal, Spain (albeit with a false nine), brazil, Australia, Liverpool (maybe they've changed recently?)

Mind you it's referred to as a 4-2-3-1 by dormund, arsenal, australia, liverpoool (?) and brazil. Also madrid fans (But i think ancelotti refers to it as 4-3-3 lol)

But bayern and Spain I'm pretty sure were always referred to as "just" a 4-3-3.

Scheinsteigger------Martinez
---------------kroos--------------

2) the second midfield variation of the 4-3-3 uses A single defensive mid, with 2 more attacking mids either side.
Think barcelona, and lately bayern Munich under guardiola (at times)
----------Busquets---------
----Xavi-----------iniesta

This was the formation that Ange implemented
---------paartulu---------
murdocca?----Mackay

Of course played in a defensive manner it could be transforms into a 4-1-4-1, but obviously barcelona and brisbane are quite attacking, so for them it is definitely a 4-3-3.

Adelaide are using this variation now I think, but I've hardly Watched them so perhaps I am wrong.

2010-2011 and 2011-2012
This was the season Ange had his 4-3-3 in full effect. And I can guarantee you that paartulu was the sole defensive mid!

2012
Rado's first major tactical change was playing with 2 holding midfielders.
Titles won = 0

2013 onwards
I have no idea what structure mulvey used last season but I know this year he as used a "4-2-3-1". And I am pretty sure that's why he recruited Liam miller!
0 titles so far, but like i said it would be surprising if they don't win something this season!

 

[Kareem]

NB: I understand the those in the world of football rarely play a "symmetrical" formation, and there are tweaks here and there.
For instance, iniesta plays a bit more attacking than Xavi for Barelona.
And Alonso plays much deeper than his midfield partner for Madrid (similar to the Hutch/Monty dynamic at the Mariners).
But the basic structure remains the same.

 

[tsd]

I take a keen interest in football tactics and formations Etc.
Obviously I am not the only one. But I have been obsessed with a 4-2-3-1 for years...Before it became mainstream

I was in heaven, when Arnie adopted it. I just don't rate 442s. And side note: I think we just need to tweak our 4-2-3-1 like Dibo suggested rather than returning to the 4-4-2.

Ironically Benitez is one of the coaches who helped to develop it lol...and I can't stand him.

Brisbane have played with a 4-3-3 the last 3 years
There are 2 popular midfield variations of 4-3-3 (with coaching modifications I am sure there are more)

1) the first 4-3-3 midfield variation resembles the widely popular 4-2-3-1.
Teams that use it are bayern Munich (2013), madrid, Dortmund, arsenal, Spain (albeit with a false nine), brazil, Australia, Liverpool (maybe they've changed recently?)

Mind you it's referred to as a 4-2-3-1 by dormund, arsenal, australia, liverpoool (?) and brazil. Also madrid fans (But i think ancelotti refers to it as 4-3-3 lol)

But bayern and Spain I'm pretty sure were always referred to as "just" a 4-3-3.

Scheinsteigger------Martinez
---------------kroos--------------

2) the second midfield variation of the 4-3-3 uses A single defensive mid, with 2 more attacking mids either side.
Think barcelona, and lately bayern Munich under guardiola (at times)
----------Busquets---------
----Xavi-----------iniesta

This was the formation that Ange implemented
---------paartulu---------
murdocca?----Mackay

Of course played in a defensive manner it could be transforms into a 4-1-4-1, but obviously barcelona and brisbane are quite attacking, so for them it is definitely a 4-3-3.

Adelaide are using this variation now I think, but I've hardly Watched them so perhaps I am wrong.

2010-2011 and 2011-2012
This was the season Ange had his 4-3-3 in full effect. And I can guarantee you that paartulu was the sole defensive mid!

2012
Rado's first major tactical change was playing with 2 holding midfielders.
Titles won = 0

2013 onwards
I have no idea what structure mulvey used last season but I know this year he as used a "4-2-3-1". And I am pretty sure that's why he recruited Liam miller!
0 titles so far, but like i said it would be surprising if they don't win something this season!

Great read, thanks. My double pivot read is based on murdocca dropping back for the adventurous paartulu. But as you very astutely pointed out and I totally forgot, was they defended in 433. This in itself is reason enough to call it a 433.

 

[Big Al]

We certainly have the athleticism for a press but it's totally against our clog the loo formation.

We decided to do a half arsed press on friday night at one stage & AU took it from there Eugene all the way to the back off our net (2-0). Only time we even looked like getting the ball was when Zac got on the end of it & kicked it into them & they kept marching towards our goal.

If you press it must be organised - One weak link not only makes it useless it makes you vulnerable to the hole that is left.

We could press with
Duke - low 20's - Total greyhound
Ibini - low 20's
Koren - While older should be able to
Fitzy - low to mid 20's
Caceras - low 20's
Simon - Any excuse to run at opposition plays

In my mind the press suits us big time with Monty as cover. We have used it like once or twice in a game very effectively but don't persist with it. It creates turnovers that create space & oportunities for our attackers instead of hoof ball.

However our structure is built on defence - But that defence is structurally built on no press & everyone sitting in there spots from half way back. While successful it's hard to argue to change but I don't think it creates the breaks that a press does. Some are pro press & some aren't.

Watch Duke or Simon they get bored (or especially Duke when comes on & is suppose to create energy) chase the ball in the attacking 3rd by themselves. The rest of the team sit back & think what are u doing