R9 Champions v Smurfs

[scottmac]

Hutch plays more passes because he sits between the defenders when playing out.
Shit stats are shit.

 

[dibo]

Well, kinda. If you can measure it...

Leopold Method are very good on this quantitative analysis - it tells you quite a bit about how players and teams play, and offers insights into how you might improve your own team and frustrate your opposition.

Then there's a part of me that's just frustrated by views that are unsupported. There's more to life than statistics, but if they're there and they tell us something (as I think they do in this circumstance) then it seems silly not to take them into consideration, especially when all you're getting from the holders of the views is gut feel, prejudice and bugger all else.

 

[true believer]

Maybe you're just shit at computers.

well compatibility worked .
no dibo my computer knowledge is above average . my knowledge of windows half arsed operating system is in early stages

as I was about to post before scottymac beat me to it
monty plays forward and hutch is often at centre back'
but nice try although a bit on the desperate side

10 print " monty is best"
20 goto 10

 

[scottmac]

Agree, but in this instance it would be better to look into how many of those forward passes ended with balls into the area or shots at goal. That would then give us a measurable result to the argument that Monty is better than Hutch.

 

[eenfish]

I think Monty has more grit and determination but Hutch's heart and stick-to-itiveness makes up for it.

 

[priorpeter]

i fink dey iz bof verry gud playerz

 

[UnitedsNo9]

I agree with those RE: Dukey on the wing. I think he is our best striker and a great striker who has been hitting form the last few months (tail end of last season and the roos etc)...
Also agree RE: Mile. He has obviously been great from the bench but I think we could use his experience at the moment.
I would like to see something like:

Liam
Roux Sains Ando/Brent Rose
Monty Hutch
McGlinchey Flores Sterjovski
Duke

Bench: Ando/Brent, McBreen, Simon, Fits.

I think McBreen, Simon and Fitz would be three X factors when coming from the bench moreso than when they start.

 

[dibo]

Hutch plays more passes because he sits between the defenders when playing out.
Shit stats are shit.

Agree, but in this instance it would be better to look into how many of those forward passes ended with balls into the area or shots at goal. That would then give us a measurable result to the argument that Monty is better than Hutch.

Monty has played successful attacking third passes (48 vs 26) and his attacking third passing % is higher (76% vs 67%). Neither has created many chances (Hutch leads 2 to 1) and it's nil-all on assists.

Monty has had 22 successful tackles to 11 and attempted more too (30 to 18).



You've noted that he plays more passes because he's between the defenders, and others have noted they'd rather have Hutch there than Monty. It's curious though - Monty had one game where he made more than half of his season's passes into the attacking third - against Heart:



For the rest of the season, it's a little closer than that:



I was in Melbourne for the game but I don't remember exactly what was different. Looking at the heat map of his passing (http://www.fourfourtwo.com/statszon...ayer-stats/8218/1_PASS_08#tabs-wrapper-anchor), he seemed to be feeding our right channel a lot, presumably sending Roux in behind Ramsay (who in turn burned us twice down that flank to put us down 2-0).

For all the numbers though, neither is creating chances.

 

[BrisRecky]

heres to the passes sticking...and if that occurs, then possibly the pointy end will grow some fangs and decimate Frankies Smurfs....also good to see ADP cant be tossed coming up the highway again...

 

[pjennings]

We looked better with Monty and McBreen on and Simon needs to get back to the standard he was before he left. We had the Golden Boot last year - he needs to start.

I think this is close to our strongest team and we have not yet played it this year. Time to step it up.

Reddy
Roux-Sainsbury-Griffiths-Rose
Monty-Hutchinson
Duke-Flores-McGlinchey
McBreen

Bench: Justin, Seip or Zac, Caceres, Sterj, Fitz

 

[Ancient Mariner]

Monty has played successful attacking third passes (48 vs 26) and his attacking third passing % is higher (76% vs 67%). Neither has created many chances (Hutch leads 2 to 1) and it's nil-all on assists.

Monty has had 22 successful tackles to 11 and attempted more too (30 to 18).

View attachment 119

You've noted that he plays more passes because he's between the defenders, and others have noted they'd rather have Hutch there than Monty. It's curious though - Monty had one game where he made more than half of his season's passes into the attacking third - against Heart:

View attachment 120

For the rest of the season, it's a little closer than that:

View attachment 121

I was in Melbourne for the game but I don't remember exactly what was different. Looking at the heat map of his passing (http://www.fourfourtwo.com/statszon...ayer-stats/8218/1_PASS_08#tabs-wrapper-anchor), he seemed to be feeding our right channel a lot, presumably sending Roux in behind Ramsay (who in turn burned us twice down that flank to put us down 2-0).

For all the numbers though, neither is creating chances.

It does not really matter, both are better than Caceras, no matter how much love is expressed on this forum.

 

[Big Al]

Hutch drops so deep & has even been in the defensive line when the wingers press forward.

After Dibo's Hutch comments I watched closely a replay game. Hutch is like a quarter back. Each defenders job is to snap it to Hutch we moves well & puts himself in a position to get short passes & then either hits a short pass back to the defender or moves it a little forward. I think he is very effective & does the role well.

But I think Monty vs. Hutch is like oranges & mandarins. Similar but different as pointed out below. They serve different roles & do them well. After viewing Caceras in Monty's position he did nothing to suggest he should take his position.

Back to the Monty Hutch combo for me.

The problem with hutch being so deep though if the huge gulf between him our first out let & our next being flores. This is where the turnovers are occuring. Hutch is getting way to deep & there is a massive hole between the DM's & the AM's/Fwds.

We are possibly to stricker heavy (is there such a thing). Must go with either Duke or Mcbreen. Simon has to be a sub you just can't play them all. It's like those teams who buy all the best talent but forget you need unheralded workers to make the superstars look good.

On the otherside. Wee Mac has been in & out like a teenager due to international duty. Now has the first chance to string a couple of games together without national team commitments. We finally have a set back 4 - Slowly Slowly.

Fix the passing & the attackers lines & we are back on track. The rest of comp has improved

But if we beat SFC this week & win our catch up game at NSO we back in front of them.

Victory can't shoot - WSW have some injury problems - As do SFC who are streaky really crap or just better than shit. AU Heart & Wellington can all draw easily against anyone or beat some. Then Newcastle are starting to look good & taggart is on fire.

String a couple together quickly & we can move up the ladder pretty quickly. Fail to do that we can sink just as fast.

With SFC flying should get a good crowd both more travellers & more locals.

 

[true believer]

as others have eloquently said .I want duke to start as striker

 

[dibo]

We could really do with Fitzy hitting his straps. He's the guy we need out wide, not Duke. If he's in form, he and McGlinchey play the flanks, Duke goes high, Flores sits, all is right with the world.

If it's not Fitzy, it could be Caceres. But someone needs to release Duke to play up top and scare the shit out of defenders with his pace and aggression.

The shape's right, we're just doing it wrong.

 

[localpom]

How about Caceres playing right or left mid and keeping Hutch and Monty together.

So...

Ever(Reddy)
Storm boy Trent Griff Jr Rosey

Monty Hutch

Caceres Wee Mac
Flores

Dukey

 

[Gratis]

We could really do with Fitzy hitting his straps. He's the guy we need out wide, not Duke. If he's in form, he and McGlinchey play the flanks, Duke goes high, Flores sits, all is right with the world.

If it's not Fitzy, it could be Caceres. But someone needs to release Duke to play up top and scare the shit out of defenders with his pace and aggression.

The shape's right, we're just doing it wrong.

that's it, Fitz/Sterj

 

[dibo]

Actually, forgot about Sterj.

Sterj is fine, better than fine on the left. He looks quite fit this year too, FWIW.

So maybe:

Reddy
Roux-Sainsbury-Griffiths-Rose
Monty-Hutchinson
McGlinchey-Flores-Sterjovski
Duke​

???

 

[true believer]

nup I want macka as well

reddy
roux Tedesco ( not sold on griff . I'd like another look at siep ) rose
I like monty
mickey macka flores
DUKE,duke,duke

 

[dibo]

So...

Reddy
Roux-Sainsbury-Seip-Rose
Monty
McGlinchey-McBreen-Flores
Duke​

For a start that's only 10 players. For seconds, are you really suggesting we play Flores on the wing?

 

[eenfish]

Flores did poorly at MV because he was out of position. Playing him anywhere but as attacking mid would be silly, we're having a hard enough time getting goals as it is, lets not play our best player and key orchestrator out of position.

Try a 4-3-1-2

Reddy
Roux-Sains-Grffiths-Rose
Caceres-Monty-WeeMac
Flores
Dukey-Macca