R9 CCMFC vs MCFC

[Coach]

Austin did more than one pass - he was the hardest worker in the forwards and set up O'Donovan perfectly a number of times. Sure you don't have him confused with Caceres? ;-)

I agree he works very hard, the resuts of that hard work are poor. I agree he did more than one pass but only one pass was a quality pass, he did not 'set up' O'Donovan more than once.

 

[Coach]

This hits the nail on the head....

At the moment, one bad decision in our marking or tracking is usually compounded by a second bad decision by the player next to him. Not really their fault, in that they're all young and they're often against much better footballers than they've ever played against before. But the number of goals that could have been prevented just by staying tight to your man and tracking runs is depressing, because that's not something that requires a great deal of experience.

.....well written FP.

Wombat, you need to undestand they don't have 'a man' rather they pick up the threat in their area. Bay way of example, under Arnold or Moss, Roux would be defending an 'Area' of approx 15-20metres by 10-15metres, because of the high line that has increased to 25-35 metres by 10-15metres, this is almost an impossible task when confronted by quality fast wide players. Against WSW we had to manage player on player defence in the attacking third with 25metres behind us, this is normally a defensive no, no. If they stay with their 'man' and our midfield don't track back (which they don't do well, Monty aside) their midfield can just stroll through. Now Walmsley understand this and has mentioned that the structure has the defence on the edge, he is prepared to risk in defence to support the attack - it isn't working well. We also have to understand that the young central defenders are struggling with their own job, Rose, Neill and Roux are getting little direction from behind them (they don't have eyes in the back of their heads) as Posco and particularly McGing have their hands full. I'm sure you can remember Anderson, Patrick and Bosnar screaming at the wide wings backs yo could hera them in the crowd, we don't have that at the moment. Walmsley gave Neill a rap aftert WSW as at least he was able to match Castelian both physically and for pace. What would have happened if instead Rose had to control Castelian with Austin in front of him? I'm guessing it may have been 5-0 by half time.

 

[Coach]

Forum definition: "A meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged. ie we hope these pages act as a forum for debate." Perhaps you weren't aware of this?

You also then decide to post to complain about the negativity, and then post a negative comment yourself? Man you mustn't have been on here much last year I you think this is bad...

In general this year the forum has been great. Lots of opinions, ideas and discussion as per the definition.

Hi Gull, you are correct I got negative, thanks for picking me up. Very conflicting on my behalf. I agree all opinions are welcomed otherwise it would be very boring indeed! Comparing last year I note there is little calls for Walmsley's head compared to Moss, so he must be something right!

 

[Luca Brasi]

Ashcroft 7. Did pretty well to contain Mooy.

Apparently TW told Ascroft to stick to Mooy and follow him wherever he went, at half time he followed him into the City dressing room and was asked to leave by van't schip.
boom tish.

 

[Gratis]

At the point you posted this I was with my bride giving our speech!

Congrats indeed Dibo! Exciting times, all the best.

I assume the wedding party wore navy and yellow...

 

[Gratis]

Actually as someone mentioned earlier it was extremely refreshing to have a quality ref not ruin our game for a change.

 

[dibo]

Congrats indeed Dibo! Exciting times, all the best.

I assume the wedding party wore navy and yellow...

Navy suits, yellow ties, bridesmaids in blue, blue and yellow flowers.

Blue and yellow isn't just for Mariners either, I've had 15 years with Sydney Uni football and there were lots of Uni teammates from over the years and the reception was at Uni.

Am also a Liverpool, St George and Swans fan so our wedding car - a Kombi (!!!) was red and white.

We love our sport!

 

[Gratis]

Ha! Good man, well played.

 

[localpom]

Navy suits, yellow ties, bridesmaids in blue, blue and yellow flowers.

Blue and yellow isn't just for Mariners either, I've had 15 years with Sydney Uni football and there were lots of Uni teammates from over the years and the reception was at Uni.

Am also a Liverpool, St George and Swans fan so our wedding car - a Kombi (!!!) was red and white.

We love our sport!

Congrats Mr and Mrs Dibo.

 

[dibo]

Well played FFA by putting our game on on Thursday too - meant we could catch up with family on Thursday before the mayhem and then swing past the game on the way home.

Sydney playing Friday suited too - most of our friends are either Sydney or Mariners fans so neither were looking at phones for scores, etc.

We did have a couple of Wanderers fans, but they also barrack for the wrong side politically *and* they follow the Cronulla Sharks, so really there's no saving them. Lucky they're family or they wouldn't have had an invite!

 

[Forum Phoenix]

Congratulations Dibo!

 

[Forum Phoenix]

Wombat, you need to undestand they don't have 'a man' rather they pick up the threat in their area. Bay way of example, under Arnold or Moss, Roux would be defending an 'Area' of approx 15-20metres by 10-15metres, because of the high line that has increased to 25-35 metres by 10-15metres, this is almost an impossible task when confronted by quality fast wide players. Against WSW we had to manage player on player defence in the attacking third with 25metres behind us, this is normally a defensive no, no. If they stay with their 'man' and our midfield don't track back (which they don't do well, Monty aside) their midfield can just stroll through. Now Walmsley understand this and has mentioned that the structure has the defence on the edge, he is prepared to risk in defence to support the attack - it isn't working well. We also have to understand that the young central defenders are struggling with their own job, Rose, Neill and Roux are getting little direction from behind them (they don't have eyes in the back of their heads) as Posco and particularly McGing have their hands full. I'm sure you can remember Anderson, Patrick and Bosnar screaming at the wide wings backs yo could hera them in the crowd, we don't have that at the moment. Walmsley gave Neill a rap aftert WSW as at least he was able to match Castelian both physically and for pace. What would have happened if instead Rose had to control Castelian with Austin in front of him? I'm guessing it may have been 5-0 by half time.

Coach I don't think anyone would argue that our structure/game plan isn't having a significant impact on our defence. We all knew it was going to and this was accepted in it's trade off at least initially. I also agree that cheap turn overs by our mids and too many poor final balls has left us far more exposed than we should be - that and penetration has been my main concern also. But unfortunately our defensive issues are not only when we're high and being hit on the counter - that's just when it's most apparent - and as you rightly say, should not be unexpected with a high line and a quick turn over.

The marking and tracking issues I presume Wombat is referring to however, are those happening in and around the box - and they are unfortunately not always after a counter or because we are pressing high and players having too large an area too handle - so to lay all of our defensive frailties down to being purely structural would be a mistake imo - again I appreciate it's a large contributing factor - but that's also why some of the more simple mistakes can be so frustrating - which they clearly are for the players as you can often see they know they should have done better.

When a player enters your "area" no matter how wide, they become your responsibility to close down and track, but the problem with any position or zone is you have to also know when to break the rules because it's required and this makes for very difficult decision making for players, and the less experienced the harder those decision naturally are to make.

The reason Sainsbury was so good is not just because he had Dutchy beside him, organisation from behind and played in a much more defensive structure - it was also because he had such an old head on young shoulders - and could consistently step up and solve problems when needed. Let's face it, the very best defenders are those who quickly read the problem and act most effectively when all hell as broken loose, not just those who are well drilled to prevent hell from breaking loose. Because after all that's the opponents job, to create problems, and there's little point I think arguing that this all typically gets much better with experience or for that matter that a more defensive structure will improve our defence. It's always a cocktail, even if there is one large base ingredient. So if we're playing a high line and and an attacking pressing game, the focus becomes on what we are not doing well enough defensively baring that in mind, not absolving any or all other issues in light of changing it.

I have seen tracking issues occur many times that had nothing to do with structure, and I have watched opposing players receive balls that would be intercepted or leave the attacking player unable to turn or play it on quickly and typically be forced to either play the way they faced or be dispossessed if the defender had just sat tighter. We know it's a very simple idea, but it's very hard in practice largely because of the levels of focus and awareness required over 90 minutes. (again a typical issue for youth/inexperience) ATM, with the extra couple of metres of space we afford players at times, we are pretty vulnerable to triangles and the like at the moment around our box, whereas we are very rarely given such luxuries at the other end ourselves. And if we want to discuss the counters and structure I also believe how we press at times is also clearly hurting us.

But anyway, don't take this as a challenge or being negative mate, these discussions are a source of enjoyment for me. In the past (when this place was a lot more typical of a standard football forum) and I thought people were just riding players or coaches blindly out of their own frustration or bitter agendas It may have prompted me to write a diatribe, some maybe fair enough, others not. But these days it all just makes me chuckle, and I've really come to value all the regular posters on here because they all do contribute a lot of great thoughts and comments, and by comparable standards as a football forum, this place really is pretty damn good - especially if you're just willing to let all the personalities be and everyone's (including my own of course) dumber, darker or drunker moments just wash over you.

Oh, and btw... I think your absolutely barking when it comes to Austin
(Maybe don't let that one wash over you)


Best
FP

 

[nearlyyellow]

ROUX GOT DROPPED LAST YEAR FOR POOR FORM.

I ADMIRE YOU FOR ACTUALLY POSTING RATHER THAN JUST LURKING. KEEP POSTING AND ADD SOME BALANCE IF YOU FEEL ITS NEEDED.

Must you shout? I had to squint at your post.

 

[Rowdy]

Congratulations Dibo, best of luck to you both.

Sometimes when you hit the reply button for a post it can shorten the post down like this ....

At the point you posted this I was with my bride giving ....

Which would have me asking, "How long till we get a new Mariners Member in the Dibo household?"

Hopefully not as long as I've known you guys to have been together, which is about as long as your CCM Membership (10 yrs)

 

[dibo]

It's a bit longer than that!

Song as we came into the reception was "can't hurry love".

 

[Wombat]

Wombat, you need to undestand they don't have 'a man' rather they pick up the threat in their area. Bay way of example, under Arnold or Moss, Roux would be defending an 'Area' of approx 15-20metres by 10-15metres, because of the high line that has increased to 25-35 metres by 10-15metres, this is almost an impossible task when confronted by quality fast wide players. Against WSW we had to manage player on player defence in the attacking third with 25metres behind us, this is normally a defensive no, no. If they stay with their 'man' and our midfield don't track back (which they don't do well, Monty aside) their midfield can just stroll through. Now Walmsley understand this and has mentioned that the structure has the defence on the edge, he is prepared to risk in defence to support the attack - it isn't working well. We also have to understand that the young central defenders are struggling with their own job, Rose, Neill and Roux are getting little direction from behind them (they don't have eyes in the back of their heads) as Posco and particularly McGing have their hands full. I'm sure you can remember Anderson, Patrick and Bosnar screaming at the wide wings backs yo could hera them in the crowd, we don't have that at the moment. Walmsley gave Neill a rap aftert WSW as at least he was able to match Castelian both physically and for pace. What would have happened if instead Rose had to control Castelian with Austin in front of him? I'm guessing it may have been 5-0 by half time.

Zonal marking gone mad by the sounds of it. For me it's fundamental .....and I don't care what bs you want to dress it up in......you can't intercept a pass if you are the wrong side of your man, or opposing player in your area.
Your cant block a shot if you are not goal side.
You can't effect a tackle if you are not close to the opposing player in your "area".
No other team in HAL has fullbacks (Neill and roux) that are so cavalier when it comes to defending.
Clearly both have talent going forward but until they defend to a basic lightning standard.....I will be critical.

 

[Coach]

Coach I don't think anyone would argue that our structure/game plan isn't having a significant impact on our defence. We all knew it was going to and this was accepted in it's trade off at least initially. I also agree that cheap turn overs by our mids and too many poor final balls has left us far more exposed than we should be - that and penetration has been my main concern also. But unfortunately our defensive issues are not only when we're high and being hit on the counter - that's just when it's most apparent - and as you rightly say, should not be unexpected with a high line and a quick turn over.

The marking and tracking issues I presume Wombat is referring to however, are those happening in and around the box - and they are unfortunately not always after a counter or because we are pressing high and players having too large an area too handle - so to lay all of our defensive frailties down to being purely structural would be a mistake imo - again I appreciate it's a large contributing factor - but that's also why some of the more simple mistakes can be so frustrating - which they clearly are for the players as you can often see they know they should have done better.

When a player enters your "area" no matter how wide, they become your responsibility to close down and track, but the problem with any position or zone is you have to also know when to break the rules because it's required and this makes for very difficult decision making for players, and the less experienced the harder those decision naturally are to make.

The reason Sainsbury was so good is not just because he had Dutchy beside him, organisation from behind and played in a much more defensive structure - it was also because he had such an old head on young shoulders - and could consistently step up and solve problems when needed. Let's face it, the very best defenders are those who quickly read the problem and act most effectively when all hell as broken loose, not just those who are well drilled to prevent hell from breaking loose. Because after all that's the opponents job, to create problems, and there's little point I think arguing that this all typically gets much better with experience or for that matter that a more defensive structure will improve our defence. It's always a cocktail, even if there is one large base ingredient. So if we're playing a high line and and an attacking pressing game, the focus becomes on what we are not doing well enough defensively baring that in mind, not absolving any or all other issues in light of changing it.

I have seen tracking issues occur many times that had nothing to do with structure, and I have watched opposing players receive balls that would be intercepted or leave the attacking player unable to turn or play it on quickly and typically be forced to either play the way they faced or be dispossessed if the defender had just sat tighter. We know it's a very simple idea, but it's very hard in practice largely because of the levels of focus and awareness required over 90 minutes. (again a typical issue for youth/inexperience) ATM, with the extra couple of metres of space we afford players at times, we are pretty vulnerable to triangles and the like at the moment around our box, whereas we are very rarely given such luxuries at the other end ourselves. And if we want to discuss the counters and structure I also believe how we press at times is also clearly hurting us.

But anyway, don't take this as a challenge or being negative mate, these discussions are a source of enjoyment for me. In the past (when this place was a lot more typical of a standard football forum) and I thought people were just riding players or coaches blindly out of their own frustration or bitter agendas It may have prompted me to write a diatribe, some maybe fair enough, others not. But these days it all just makes me chuckle, and I've really come to value all the regular posters on here because they all do contribute a lot of great thoughts and comments, and by comparable standards as a football forum, this place really is pretty damn good - especially if you're just willing to let all the personalities be and everyone's (including my own of course) dumber, darker or drunker moments just wash over you.

Oh, and btw... I think your absolutely barking when it comes to Austin
(Maybe don't let that one wash over you)


Best
FP

 

[Coach]

FP, you clearly know what you are talking about and I don't disagree with your comments on tracking around the box with one conditional note. If the quantity of possession the opposition have increases due to persistent turnovers then tracking problems will also increase don't you think? Essentially the significant issue is that the four young blokes get caught ball watching or in fact trying too hard to solve problems that are not their responsibility. They way too often can't see the ball and the threat (player) at the same time or they follow the ball.

If barking means I'm wrong? Sorry I'm old lol. Well, as a coach I must quantify performance, for a wide player like Austin, I want to see high crossing numbers, goal assists, some goals, regular beating of their marker. These numbers for Austin are horrible with the exception of beating his man, as such I think he one dimensional. He also does not defend.
I don't see your comments as a challenge, far from it, I love your thoughtful insight

 

[Forum Phoenix]

Hi Coach, I agree re tracking issues being greater due to turnovers - had thought I said that - mustn't have been very clear - and in truth even when tracking issues having nothing to do with a turnover, I still think it will contribute in that if you're rattled/unsettled from the last one you barely survived only a moment before - you're more inclined to stuff up. But never the less, there are mistakes and lapses frequently being made which cannot really be blamed on quick turnovers and our structure. I think the players would recognise this. And again, I also think it's to be expected given the youth of our side.

But I feel for Walmsley. Hardest job in the league and I'm sure he didn't plan for two such important senior players on high salaries to not just be unavailable but brazenly sew discontent. With our budget, and youthful roster, those two are a pretty huge loss to our side. Still hoping TW can resurrect this season, but we clearly need to keep Monty and Fab on the field for the rest of the season if we have any hope to be in the six. But I still have some hope, because errors can be corrected, youth will learn, and I still feel Roy has goals in him.

Which brings us to Austin...

"I want to see high crossing numbers, goal assists, some goals, regular beating of their marker"

I'm not sure what to say. I really just think you've must have missed a few things on this one Coach.

He has literally the highest number of crosses by a LARGE margin in the league and while I only checked, MVFC, WSW BRR and MC re the most successful crosses, he has played less minutes - (by about 200 on average) and yet has 3 times more successful crosses than any of their mids - Kafallah, Bozanic, Vidosic, Nichols, Broich, Petratos, Mckay, oh and this is true even of Mooy. and I only picked those because they were the most successful, I can't find a mid anywhere in these teams that is even near his stats in this area.

Now I'm not arguing he's having the same impact as all those players obviously. He's such an out and out winger, and he does have a huge amount of unsuccessful crosses, but in ratio to the others his is 3 (unsuccessful) to 1 - which seems typical.

Also - I have seen him play at least a dozen balls which would not be recorded as successful crosses - but they were great balls, just no one capable of keeping pace with him or attacking the right positions. And I really do think that in another attacking lineup he would very likely have had a lot more return for his efforts.

He has excelled at beating his marker - and is now consistently being double teamed and still causing mayhem.

Goal scoring - ok, it would be nice to see some more. I think we will, but he's largely been crossing the ball, not shooting. This is clearly evidenced by his shooting vs crossing ratio.

Of course he's making mistakes too, his decision making on when to pass on the break is probably the big one, but again, he's young and so we're naturally coming back to the experience issue again.

Anyway, nice to have you here coach. Glad you enjoy the discussions also.