R9: CCM v WSW

[nebakke]

Fark - look at that first goal again, Storm never stood a f*****g chance, and it wasn't his fault either... There was a lump of WSW players in the field, that drew everyone else into the middle, leaving Storm to cover both Jumpei and Clisby, with no help...
He wasn't exactly immense last season, but he wasn't disastrous yesterday, for mine...
On positives, I thought McGing and Rose were looking decent - especially considering Rose was playing as a single #6... I think this was half the problem though... Against Perth, Tavares was almost switching between being the second #10 and second #6 (I assume there's a term for this, I just don't kno what it is, other than "being a midfielder" ) - he was able to carry the ball forward and distribute, without having to show the attacking intent at the front.
As the single defensive mid, also having to sink into defence, I don't think young Rose had much opportunity to push up far enough to connect with the high #10s and noone was coming back to help him...
Which probably means that in my view, one of our biggest problems was in how Powell and Berry played... Once it became clear that Rose didn't have room to push up on his own, they should've been back there to help him.
On Pain - I know that everyone was yelling out for him to get the ball, half the game, but his positioning was just shite half the time yesterday... He was either waiting, as the only man against three defenders, or sitting well off-side.

On the whole though, i though the primary issue became really evident towards the end of the second half... WSW defended in serious numbers, while they still had 11 man on the park... Whenever the ball would get to a Trent, Roy or Pain, there'd be at least three WSW players on them, surrounding them and pushing.
Whenever they were in attack though, we'd have two/three players standing off, in front of them, waiting for a move and giving them heaps of time... It wasn't just against Mitch Nicholls that this was the case.

Speaking of which, I thought that yellow should've been his second, but other than that, the ref had a surprisingly decent game... Especially considering the fourth official was the dimwit that destroyed the Phoenix game last weekend.

 

[nebakke]

Some great threads and some I'm scratching my head about. It's all been said and I agree with most that I feel sad but not disgraced. My wife could even tell we play better football than last year. It's a long season and we are going to hit a few speed bumps and it is how we respond next game that counts. still don't think the drive bys are contenders as we made then look good in the mid as many on here have explained in great detail. I also like that Okon tried a few things with subs and agree the team let him down not the tactics.

Definitely - I strongly disagree that this is the worst we've been since Moss era, in fact this season alone, I thought both the Phoenix and Sydney games were much harder to watch... First half was mostly alright - it wasn't really till the second that the wheels came off.

EDIT: WHOOP Just saw the other thread mentioning that Tavares and Monty were both injured... Well s*** - who'dve thought we'd be low on CDMs this season!?

 

[Big Al]

Fark - look at that first goal again, Storm never stood a f*****g chance, and it wasn't his fault either... There was a lump of WSW players in the field, that drew everyone else into the middle, leaving Storm to covers both Jumpei and Clisby, with no help...
He wasn't exactly immense last season, but he wasn't disastrous yesterda, for mine...
On positives, I thought McGing and Rose were looking decent - especially considering Rose was playing as a single #6... I think this was half the problem though... Against Perth, Tavares was almost switching between being the second #10 and second #6 (I assume there's a term for this, I just don't kno what it is, other than "being a midfielder" ) - he was able to carry the ball forward and distribute, without having to show the attackign intent at the front.
As the single defensive mid, also having to sink into defense, I don't think young Rose had much opportunity to push up far enough to connect with the high #10s and noone was coming back to help him...
Which probably means that in my view, one of our biggest problems was in how Powell and Berry played... Once it became clear that Rose didn't have room to push up on his own, they should've been back there to help him.
On Pain - I know that everyone was yelling out for him to get the ball, half the game, but his positioning was just shite half the time yesterday... He was either waiting, as the only man against three defenders, or sitting well off-side.

On the whole though, i though the primary issue became really evident towards the end of the second half... WSW defended in serious numbers, while they still had 11 man on the park... Whenever the ball would get to a Trent, Roy or Pain, there'd be at least three WSW players on them, surrounding them and pushing.
Whenever they were in attack though, we'd have two/three players standing off, in front of them, waiting for a move and giving them heaps of time... It wasn't just against Mitch Nicholls that this was the case.

Speaking of which, I thought that yellow should've been his second, but other than that, the ref had a surprisingly decent game... Especially considering the fourth official was the dimwit that destroyed the Phoenix game last weekend.

I thought Rose played pretty good and his passing is really good. However he is no Taveras
Okon has mentioned that we have moved to 1 DM and 2 attacking mids after being to timid in first couple of rounds.
Also the CB's didn't use Rose like they do Taveras and I think the confidence that it doesn't matter if Taveras has a defender on him is part of this.
Berry is a good player who gets into excellent positions and makes good runs. His pass to Pain to blast just wide on half time was excellent however he should have buried the chance on the rebound off Roy hitting the post.
Also Berry stopped chasing Martinez on there 2nd goal. He was half a yard behind him and then stopped at top of box as Nico kept running. Berry knew it was his fault
Couple really good young guys that do need some more experience around them

 

[true believer]

Don't all yell but I am not overly disappointed ...

We had two players in the run on team who were not able to play in a youth team.

So what happened... well two things they had a decent bit of luck when we hit the post and another time we hit well over the goal...

Their first two goals were both while good goals not what they have done all season, Jumpie hit one on target, and the diving header well what can you say.

We missed an organiser the gap between the front line and the backs was way too wide .

What I saw was a young team in need of some old hands ...

Our depth is pathetic, but TBH each of the kids did OK hhhhmmmm Ashcroft maybe not ....

I can see the core of a decent side .... also I think people are underrating WSW they have some very decent players...

Sad but not dishearten is I...

Certainly the game i saw .

 

[FFC Mariner]

Tav gone for a few weeks at best. Monty has been struggling all year. I'm calling Faty to not play for us again (big call but his record of fitness is terrible)
Get used to NYL line ups as Charlesworth won't spend.

 

[Holy]

Some great posts, agree with most of what's been said already.

I'm actually proud of the performance of our young guys, with no Tav and no Monty, It was away so going to be a tough day at the office. But, they didn't give up, and with 15 to go, I still thought if we could of got 1, it was game on. a far cry from last year, when you just wanted the bleeding to stop.

Moving forward, a couple of things to note from last night:
* We need at least 2 of the following 4 in the staring 11 if we are going to be a chance of making the top 6. They are our experience spine of Monty, Tav, Faty and Posco. You can mould our youth around these 4.
* If Tav is gone, then we need an equivalent injury replacement asap.
* Fab was disappointing last night when he came on. An observation, what was with the 100m sprints he was told to do after most had left the stadium. Was it a way of saying you didn't put in? was there is a level of expectation that you didn't achieve? Trent is currently playing him out of the starting 11, and really it should be the other way round. The beginning of the the end maybe?
* Those young guys were gutted, heads low, disappointed. Pain looked like he was going to burst into tears at any second. To me it shows they care. It shows they so wanted to put in a good performance last night, for their coach, for us, their fans but most importantly for themselves.
* Watching Okon's press conference, he was gutted, but knew exactly what went wrong. I firmly believe he is the right man, I only hope he can bring in some key recruits in January, with a long term view of next season. I also hope we extend his contract, 2 years seems too little for what he has at his disposal for this season.

 

[nebakke]

Tav gone for a few weeks at best. Monty has been struggling all year. I'm calling Faty to not play for us again (big call but his record of fitness is terrible)
Get used to NYL line ups as Charlesworth won't spend.

He might not have spent the way we'd like but it's not like we've had no new signings this season.
Anyway according to Paolo we only have one support spot free on the team so there's not a whole lot can be done methinks

 

[Holy]

I ended up getting seven extras along. Worked hard to do that, so was pretty disappointing that we ended up so clearly second best.

The opening goal was a cracker - took the wind out of WSW - so it was gut wrenching to watch us concede a few seconds later - Roux standing too far off Jumpei. Izzo unprepared for the shot - he's saved harder.

Most of my thoughts have been said:

Strongly agree with Holy re Needing to close down Nichols... they stood off him like he was f**king Messi and let him run the show - that was INFURIATING.

Agree with Wombat and others, far too much space between our backs and mids. WSW penetration was so easy and consistent it was depressing to watch and did harken back to our last two seasons of playing at traffic cones. The pressing we excelled at last game had reverted to a bad martial arts movie of attacking one at a time... which just opens up space and is worse than not pressing at all.

Agree with Atomic, we badly lack creativity, and players must run at defenders when there is no other way forward and they are sitting deep with ten men behind the ball. That or whip it in... again and again until hopefully something gives. Could have done with Fab imo.

On Okon... I don't mind that he risked from the bench, but the players then failed to risk in attack, that's on them, offence should have become our defence. Instead 4 attackers sitting flat with their backs to goal, so the back and Dm are hesitant and so we knock it around and back ad nauseam. This neutralised our attacking advantage and instead allowed Wanders even with only ten men to capitalise on our defensive limitations.

The difference in quality with WSW creative players shone through all day - good lesson that its not always about pace on the counter its your movement, how you move the ball and when... and their backline were excellent - quietest I've seen Roy - though we still managed to create some chances from our wing play, so that is positive - but they created far more, and with depressing ease - and mostly just with simple quick passing and a quality well weighted final ball. I think if Okon made any mistake it was starting Trent over Fab. We clearly needed some more experience and presence on the park. But how could you deny Trent after his last couple of weeks.

So I'm not really sure what else he could have done, biggest factor is that Tav and Monty are our two best players. I was not a subscriber to the Monty is past it stuff. Without them we were found badly wanting. Rose and Berry are a long way off Monty or Tav yet as footballers. And light years off as leaders (understandably). And unfortunately we were leaderless today. Lacked Tav to hold it up and give us finesse, and Monty to lead and force the other team to fight for the midfield. which imo is where we completely lost the battle today.

Now all that said. The players didn't give up. And I thought while second best and well beaten, I would not call them disgraced.

That was WSW's best performance of the year, it's been coming. We copped it. They were very good today. I actually thought that was the best performance of any HAL side in the last few rounds I've seen. We were understrength, yet still in it for decent periods and not clueless just weak in our defensive structure, lacking leadership and a bit of extra quality. So while very disappointing, I feel no less confidence in Okon or the side, just clearer on where we still lack depth and require creative spark.

Powell is such a difficult one. He's a good footballer and a hard worker, I actually really like him, but he does not have X factor and the ability to create something from nothing like most of the WSW forwards do in comparison. This is a problem that is not going away and without TAV is badly exacerbated.

Hey FP, just curious, of the 7 newbies that came with you, are any likely to come back?

 

[Tevor]

We joined up my father in law this year, whist we lost he rates the game day experience more than any other sport he has attended and thought the atmosphere last night was great. Let's hope a lot of the newbies felt the same way.

 

[Leigh]

My wife could even tell we play better football than last year.

What? Are you serious? We've been playing well this year. Improving every game. The guys couldn't even make simple passes last year, this year we're making a lot of good passes.

This game is a stand alone terrible performance.

It was all about movement off the ball and terrible individual decisions. Storm Roux being the worst of the team that game.

 

[Ancient Mariner]

Had the car radio on on the way home from the match, listening to 702. Kwassy and the boys were very interesting. They heaped praise on the way Wanderers played and did a very good post match interview with Roy. Roy was brutally honest and came straight to the point about the lack of experienced depth in the club and stated that to be competitive money would have to be spent. He was very supportive of our young players but called "a spade" a "spade". It was a very impressive interview and not the usual inoffensive garbage dished out by players of all sports these days. He also made the point that WSW had one of the very few true #10s going around in the A-League and how well he played. A breath of fresh air.

Another observation made by the panel was that Paolo and Sean M. had their heads together in deep discussion for a long time after the match. Hopefully Sean was asking Paolo who he wanted the Club to buy in January.

I felt sorry for Storm. He has been improving this season but was cut to ribbons last night. He was caught too far forward far too often. Maybe the armband was to heavy and he was trying too hard.

Pain seemed to be a beat behind the music all night and hopefully that is still improving.

Fab when he came on did not look interested. Maybe a bad case of the dirts brought on by splinters. Hope I misread the body language.

Very worried about Tavares. If there is talk of him going to Europe to get his ankle fixed I suspect we will not see him again. If true hopefully we can get a midfield controller as good or better as an injury replacement. He was filling a massive hole.

A shame after last week, but being realistic, it will not be the last disappointing game we will see this season. Hopefully there will be enough positives to balance these negatives before the end.

Onwards and upwards.

p.s. Catering at the stadium is incompetent and rubbish. I will not spend another cent there until the Club takes over. I suggest all those in the local council electorate get their pens and paper out and start putting pressure on the pollies or administrator, whatever the case may be. Votes are all they care about.

 

[Gratis]

Just got home. Angry and drunk, so please keep that in mind...

Good first half, albeit 2nd best team on the pitch. Second half was f**kEN SHIT!!!! We need a decent #10. We're too 1-dimensional.

I rented the Ab Fab movie. The Old Girl and I are going to crack open a good Margret River red and forget today even existed. See you all tomorrow!

movie any good?

 

[pjennings]

Regarding Storm - after about 30 mins he seemed to be limping and continued to until he was replaced. The fact that he stayed on for so long, while he was getting torn to shreds is one of the few missteps I could put towards Paul Okon. Even if Okon told him he needed to stay on the field, with his reduced speed yesterday The CBs needed to cover more space in the middle to allow him to cover his man more closely.

 

[Wombat]

I have no idea what Storm was trying to do but he certainly wasn't defending. Maybe they were trying to play 3 at the back and send Storm on a constant overlap.
Wanderers had an unmarked player on the back stick countless times. It was Roux at his worst.

 

[sydmariner]

movie any good?

yes

 

[Forum Phoenix]

Hey FP, just curious, of the 7 newbies that came with you, are any likely to come back?

They still enjoyed it, but wasn't enough to hook anyone I think. A good buzzing win just may have. Out of comp tickets now, so harder, but will try get them back next time as well. At a guess I'd say half will return soon, others prob come again, but doubt it will be regular any time soon.

Agree with Ancient on food. It's avoided by all I know, barring the over priced hot chips, soft drink or ice cream.

 

[Coach]

Had the car radio on on the way home from the match, listening to 702. Kwassy and the boys were very interesting. They heaped praise on the way Wanderers played and did a very good post match interview with Roy. Roy was brutally honest and came straight to the point about the lack of experienced depth in the club and stated that to be competitive money would have to be spent. He was very supportive of our young players but called "a spade" a "spade". It was a very impressive interview and not the usual inoffensive garbage dished out by players of all sports these days. He also made the point that WSW had one of the very few true #10s going around in the A-League and how well he played. A breath of fresh air.

Another observation made by the panel was that Paolo and Sean M. had their heads together in deep discussion for a long time after the match. Hopefully Sean was asking Paolo who he wanted the Club to buy in January.

I felt sorry for Storm. He has been improving this season but was cut to ribbons last night. He was caught too far forward far too often. Maybe the armband was to heavy and he was trying too hard.

Pain seemed to be a beat behind the music all night and hopefully that is still improving.

Fab when he came on did not look interested. Maybe a bad case of the dirts brought on by splinters. Hope I misread the body language.

Very worried about Tavares. If there is talk of him going to Europe to get his ankle fixed I suspect we will not see him again. If true hopefully we can get a midfield controller as good or better as an injury replacement. He was filling a massive hole.

A shame after last week, but being realistic, it will not be the last disappointing game we will see this season. Hopefully there will be enough positives to balance these negatives before the end.

Onwards and upwards.

p.s. Catering at the stadium is incompetent and rubbish. I will not spend another cent there until the Club takes over. I suggest all those in the local council electorate get their pens and paper out and start putting pressure on the pollies or administrator, whatever the case may be. Votes are all they care about.

I heard the same interview and re-run this arvo, I almost drove off the road. I will be swimming up stream but the stats don't lie!After the Sydney game having missed a couple of very good chances Roy blamed school boy mistakes openly in the press, he failed to recognise he missed a couple of very good opportunities. Against Niks he again openly criticised the Midfield for starving him in the press although in that game (Canberra) he was poor and missed one if not two excellent chances. Yesterday the same thing, good chances missed, and he complains about depth! Roy is probably on $300K and is expected to play at that level, he is seemly making excuses. His criticism in public of his team mates is not a good look. If he was doing much better it would still be unacceptable in the dressing room BUT - 4 goals from 20 shots in 9 games is not $300k worth (one was a penalty), cracks will appear as inevitably his team mates will see him using them as a distraction for his own performance. He should shut up!
PS I assume the comment about Roy being our best Striker ever to be tongue in cheek.

 

[Forum Phoenix]

Yep. You're the proverbial salmon as far as I'm concerned Coach. All strikers miss chances. If you can;t see Roy' quality that's on you.

Glad you couldn't have been more wrong about Galloway btw. Though you're now giving it a run with Roy.

 

[Wombat]

I like to hear another opinion and the yellow tinted glasses on here can sometimes be a bit puke inducing and in someways coach is right. Roy was poor last night and should have finished an easy chance but we have to respect that many games he is our best player and his workrate is usually superb.
I have never met Roy but can see he loves his teamates and is a great mentor to them. I dont mind a player bollocking his team mates when they deserve it.
Coach is sometimes bang on and sometimes way off but he is never boring.
Having said that 4 goals in 9 games in a sometimes flaky team is pretty good.....obviously Coach or his boy Mickey would have had 9.

 

[Ancient Mariner]

I heard the same interview and re-run this arvo, I almost drove off the road. I will be swimming up stream but the stats don't lie!After the Sydney game having missed a couple of very good chances Roy blamed school boy mistakes openly in the press, he failed to recognise he missed a couple of very good opportunities. Against Niks he again openly criticised the Midfield for starving him in the press although in that game (Canberra) he was poor and missed one if not two excellent chances. Yesterday the same thing, good chances missed, and he complains about depth! Roy is probably on $300K and is expected to play at that level, he is seemly making excuses. His criticism in public of his team mates is not a good look. If he was doing much better it would still be unacceptable in the dressing room BUT - 4 goals from 20 shots in 9 games is not $300k worth (one was a penalty), cracks will appear as inevitably his team mates will see him using them as a distraction for his own performance. He should shut up!
PS I assume the comment about Roy being our best Striker ever to be tongue in cheek.

Blow your ears out mate. He was not criticising his team mates he was criticising the lack of experienced depth available. He actually complimented the young guys on their commitment.
In terms of being our best striker ever, I would say it was Kwassy when he was running hot, but in overall consistency of performance Roy is the goods.