R26 CCM v WSW (away)

[Rowdy]

Before the game I saw Mcbreen in the mcdonalds & he looked like he could play a full 90 mins

Safe to say he was having a 'Happy Meal' after our performances this season.

 

[sydmariner]

TW:
"Yeah its, er funny, we've done a big review the last couple of weeks and its a very valid question.

If you're in a relegation dogfight you do things differently from the start, if you're in a League were there's relegation you do things differently from the start.

The reality is Rude's, for us .... with Adam Pearce making his debut today- he's an 18yo GK from our Youth Team, he's the 5th GK we've used & the 16th player to make his debut this season.

So there are many reasons why we are where we are, um and there's an indicator there about the instability- how much instability there has been, which reflects the results we've had.

But to answer your question, succinctly, we would of gone back-to- front NOT front-to-back. We went out with a very pro-active attacking playing style, got some bad results early on ..... confidence was affected, lots of changes in personnel & we've ended up where we are.

In reality, if your going to get relegated at the end of the season, you set your defence out so that you don't lose games & you build from there.

We didn't do that"

Above is a screenshot of my telly as soon as TW finished off with the "We didn't do that", throwing back to Adam Peacock.

The tightly pursed lips of Rudan, a defender and Coach himself & and the look on his face said it all for me.

Moss just gazed straight down the barrel of the camera with a look of bewilderment.

Awkward as, to say the least.

So our Football philosophy this year has been all 'arse-backwards'

could you see or hear the away bay

 

[Rowdy]

Tony on the otherhand re-directed the Team Bus through the Macca's 'drive-thru'.

He ordered his usual ....... nuggets,
his 19th serving this season.

 

[Rowdy]

could you see or hear the away bay

See...... well yes, Fox showed the odd shot.
Hear, no.

 

[Gratis]

Pearce > Izzo, both currently and potentially.

Jamieson is a friggin grub.

We do have some good players but as a team we suck. To change that:
We need to start recruiting for next season now (I'm led to believe the process is underway)
and start our preseason early getting the team working together and knowing their roles clearly. This means lots of friendlies.

I would also like to see a coaching consultant via everton or Garcia's contacts spending some time here in preseason

 

[Forum Phoenix]

Mostly awful performance but without meaning to sound harsh, that's what I expected and I'm surprised on here week to week when I see others didn't.

Hope, I get. Wanting/needing change, I get. But not sure why each week people keep expecting change before there is any actual change in the squad? The bulk of WSW players are a class above. We either need those experienced players or we don't? If people have been thinking/saying for a while that we do, then why do you also expect to see, not desire but see, actual on field change?

Within the time frame and against the superior quality of our opposition, you're expecting to see lead to gold. Some players have glimmers of gold, but we surely all can see its way too soon for most to go toe to toe with the teams/players that they're facing.

That's not an excuse. It's just our current grim reality.

It's also not as simple as a lack of basics that's killing us. It's about what's causing us to fail in applying our basics.

The amount of ball we give away needlessly is not because players can't pass, or get their head up... basics... but because players can't think ahead or handle pressure well enough yet. Experience. Speed of thought/play... which except in the especially talented... takes time/experience.

The players know where to stand and run to... basics. But they lapse in concentration... which is mental stamina - typically developed by time/experience. They have bad timing/judgement... developed from experience. They badly lack in the anticipation of where the ball will or might be next - both when defending and in possession/attacking... failing to read the play and move.... again most commonly a boon of experience.

I agree this makes us very hard to watch and imo in particular it's the lack of anticipation that's truly killing us. Only a handful of our players currently seem to have any real inkling of the level of anticipation required. These are typical youth/inexperience issues. And it's not a coincidence that the players who do not suffer from this affliction are our senior players + Posc. Or also why other teams look so much more cohesive and we're always being closed down easily and then chasing shadows / always a yard behind. It's why quite literally we make other teams look good. It's not about our lazy marking/tracking/positioning 'most' of the time... the problems are deeper and stem from more important skill sets usually only gained through time and experience.

Unfortunately to develop this in all of our young players may take a few more seasons as opposed to a few more games. They need to have it, then work with each other, their team, to help fine tune it - then you feel it and see it - there's a rhythm to the play and movement - that 'understanding'.

Right now, we only have rare glimpses of this, whereas for most of the other teams their rhythm/understanding is peaking - they're in sync.

Does anyone think that's untrue?? Because if it is true, then how can you possibly know our performances are Walmsley's fault? The buck stops with the coach, but why the buck stops should still be the most important thing.

I maintain that you could get Fergi polishing the lead in our side if you like, but I still don't think it'd turn it into gold anytime soon. We cannot get around the fact that we need time and more experienced players before we can realistically expect to see a change.

So while TW may be the worst coach that Satan has ever spat forth from the nether regions of his anus... the only way to really know how shit he is as a coach, right now, with this squad, is to look at his prior record, repeatedly watch him at training, and be a fly on the wall in the dressing room. Who here has done that?

I think fair criticisms may be that he was too positive/confident when it came to backing youth possibly because that's where he also felt comfortable. Likely too naive and accepting when it came to his squad limitations, made a few shit selections... But apart from that... I think a lot of people know only what they think they know. We're awful, so it must all be his fault.

Moss's case was cut and dried. TW may well be utterly useless, but he actually, genuinely, still might not be.

 

[Gratis]

Thanks FP - said it better and more comprehensively than I did. Just to say the coach is shit and the whole problem is getting moronic in it's simplicity and doesn't factor in any of the reality behind our season.
Keep in mind TW was given clear instructions to build from the front, not the back, with youth and no money whilst losing senior players consistently. If it were just a bad coach with a good squad the players would have made sure we won more than 3 games.

 

[dibo]

This! And this part of FP's post is my favourite thing I've read on here this season:

Mostly awful performance but without meaning to sound harsh, that's what I expected and I'm surprised on here week to week when I see others didn't.

Hope, I get. Wanting/needing change, I get. But not sure why each week people keep expecting change before there is any actual change in the squad? The bulk of WSW players are a class above. We either need those experienced players or we don't? If people have been thinking/saying for a while that we do, then why do you also expect to see, not desire but see, actual on field change?

 

[Blackadder]

I wished Rudan had've interjected at the end of that pre-game interview with TW with something along the lines of ....

Rudan: "But Tony, with 18 (now 19) losses this season so far shouldn't you as the Manager, along with your coaching staff redirected your focus from the 'entertainment' and put it where it was most desperately needed ..... your defensive frailties !!! ????

TW: "We didn't (think) do that"

In fact Graham Arnold did just that.

Using TW's words:
"you set your defence out so that you don't lose games & you build from there."

Arnold, for all his subsequent criticisims, won a Premiers Plate and the following year the Mariner's only Championship using that very principle.

Tony does it all 'arse-back-wards' and the result ................. speaks for itself.

Exactly, it doesn't matter what sport it is, where a defensive effort is required the resulting attack will come off the back of that.

 

[Blackadder]

Thanks FP - said it better and more comprehensively than I did. Just to say the coach is shit and the whole problem is getting moronic in it's simplicity and doesn't factor in any of the reality behind our season.
Keep in mind TW was given clear instructions to build from the front, not the back, with youth and no money whilst losing senior players consistently. If it were just a bad coach with a good squad the players would have made sure we won more than 3 games.

So the Manager has no say in match day tactics, or selections , or signings. etc.
To absolve TW of any blame in the fiasco , is defending the indefensible.

 

[true believer]

I thought for parts we looked ok.
I think a quality cb and a number 10
And we could have a big season next year

We looked like a side thats lost all year and was just going by the numbers at the end.

Next week means something and i think the team will show it.

 

[Big Al]

Big patch of the first half where we were clearly the better side.

Come on. That's a pure shit starting comment.

 

[Big Al]

Rose bud is very good on the ball. Has composure and skill. Is the only one who cherishes the ball when we coming out.

Sum beautiful passes. The only time I've heard fox get a stiffy for us this season has been Rose in last couple weeks.

Still gets bullied and is scared or just doesn't have it for defence. Some horrible positioning and lack of desire and speed to shut down attacks

For 18 has had a good season not great but has potential. Engine needs work.

 

[Big Al]

Imagine how many goals we would have given up if we still had Zac. Having a shocker again tonight

 

[sydmariner]

Imagine how many goals we would have given up if we still had Zac. Having a shocker again tonight

is there even a number that big

 

[Gratis]

So the Manager has no say in match day tactics, or selections , or signings. etc.
To absolve TW of any blame in the fiasco , is defending the indefensible.

I certainly wouldn't fully absolve his responsibility but, to address your points, it's clear that:
* recruitment was driven from the top, not the coach; and
* match day tactics and selections are limited by the players we have and their abilities. Tell me who you would have selected differently that would have won us the game? Go on. Tell me.

What I object to is people going off nut using this particular game as proof the coach is bad when there is nothing more that could possibly have been done with these players, for this game.
TW may prove to be a poor coach, I'm not saying he isn't - but what I am saying is we actually have no proof of it with management totally dictating recruitment, funds and style of play (entertainment over results).

You get given a youth league team and are explicitly told not to focus on defence and see how that goes.

In a year we had to make the club sustainable they rolled the dice and got snake eyes.
Clubs fault - definitely.
Coach's fault - possibly, but was set up to fail hard so can't be judged fairly. Any coach would have failed this test...it's why no one else would take the job.

 

[Gratis]

Exactly, it doesn't matter what sport it is, where a defensive effort is required the resulting attack will come off the back of that.

Completely agree

 

[Blackadder]

I certainly wouldn't fully absolve his responsibility but, to address your points, it's clear that:
* recruitment was driven from the top, not the coach; and
* match day tactics and selections are limited by the players we have and their abilities. Tell me who you would have selected differently that would have won us the game? Go on. Tell me.

What I object to is people going off nut using this particular game as proof the coach is bad when there is nothing more that could possibly have been done with these players, for this game.
TW may prove to be a poor coach, I'm not saying he isn't - but what I am saying is we actually have no proof of it with management totally dictating recruitment, funds and style of play (entertainment over results).

You get given a youth league team and are explicitly told not to focus on defence and see how that goes.

In a year we had to make the club sustainable they rolled the dice and got snake eyes.
Clubs fault - definitely.
Coach's fault - possibly, but was set up to fail hard so can't be judged fairly. Any coach would have failed this test...it's why no one else would take the job.

Why the owners got involved in recruiting is beyond a joke, Can't see the likes of the owners of the top European or Sth American teams dictating to the Manager who they should sign. Set the Budget, by all means but let the Manager make the calls as they see necessary.
I am puzzled by the continued selection of Izzo, losing Reddy for allegedly disciplinary reasons was always going to be tough hole to fill but when it became obvious he isn't up to standard, why not look at Heward-Belle or Bray for longer periods? Both from what I have seen would be an upgrade on Izzo.
No one else would take the job, but supposedly it was a worldwide search and then somehow they decide to promote from within. Something just doesn't sit right their.
If the players aren't up to scratch drill into them defence at training, if some signs of improvement were there then the losses while not ideal, would at least be palatable but seeing no improvement , you can't help but question the coaching or lack there of.

 

[Spacks]

I am puzzled by the continued selection of Izzo, losing Reddy for allegedly disciplinary reasons was always going to be tough hole to fill but when it became obvious he isn't up to standard, why not look at Heward-Belle or Bray for longer periods? Both from what I have seen would be an upgrade on Izzo.

It's my understanding that Bray's been injured and has only had surgery within the last week or so.

 

[Rowdy]

It's my understanding that Bray's been injured and has only had surgery within the last week or so.

I think it's safe to say BAdder's talking 'past tense' with his post.

Bray's injury/ surgery has already been acknowledged. BA, myself & others are asking why wasnt he given a chance back when he wasnt injured ???