R14: Mariners V SFC

[Forum Phoenix]

And it isn't just the creativity. He can't go past players or keep the ball well in traffic, and you can see his hold up man style strikers instincts - when certainly a 10 and most decent attacking mids have the pizaz to find a way to turn and put it forward, he knocks it back, that or his one touch passes attempting to split the line or go over the top rarely go where required. It's simply not good enough. Powell is Paolo's blind spot imo.

Upside is we will improve with Tav back again but a physical wellington in the wind tunnel with Krishna's pace makes any game against them a coin toss. With a dour 0-0 or loss a more likely scenario than a good win. But we need and deserve to start picking up some more points.

 

[JoyfulPenguin]

Club report on the game:
http://www.ccmariners.com.au/articl...w-loss-to-sydney-fc/80fmg32ms16k1k7dkk98w6vs4

 

[Wombat]

Inside90's player ratings of the game:
http://outside90.com/player-ratings-central-coast-mariners-2-sydney-fc-3-bobo-bags-brace-584/

Absolute shit review by a shit
Sydney journo.

 

[Wombat]

Missus said must get rid of McGing, I said we don't have anyone (Faty injured, Posco sick)
She said just get someone from the crowd. He is the weaker of the two defensively. Ashcroft a lot more physical and doesn't believe in marking shadows.

Not happy with either tonight but MCGing maybe just maybe the better of the two. I actually thought Roux was our best defender tonight although he was culpable for one of their goals

 

[Forum Phoenix]

Bernie went past him once like he wasn;t even there, but apart form that he defended well, but for mine did not seem anywhere near as involved going forward and in the link play as usual.

 

[nebakke]

Bernie went past him once like he wasn;t even there, but apart form that he defended well, but for mine did not seem anywhere near as involved going forward and in the link play as usual.

On Bernie - might I add what a good job Trent and Storm did on ganging up on him? Storm defending in front of him and Trent using superior pace (on Bernie!) To chase him down.
It was a joy to watch at times.

 

[Wombat]

Gutsy game by us but our defence was poor again. We need a quality CB Mike. We can make the 6 and you will make your money back.

Isso has improved out of sight.
Storm was good defensively and sorry Storm it wasnt you it was Trent that didnt close down the cross for the 1st goal.
Galloway. I see what Coach was talking about, he had a very poor game at left back, even on the Carney goal he has 3 unmarked players behind him. Did well to drive forward and look for the rebound on his goal. Something the Mids should be doing.
McGing and Ascroft were sometimes unlucky but are also too flat footed and slow to react.

More to come......i have to go to work.

 

[Ancient Mariner]

Ok, my thoughts without watching the replay, just from watching while eating my prawn sandwich just in front of Andy Harper.

Deserved a point but class told over inexperience.

We looked overawed for the first 20mins and SFC should have had the game we'll and truly wrapped up by then.
Great and gutsy fightback. The team is playing good football (and entertaining) they just need to learn how to win.
Monty is trying to do too much and trying to be too many things, doing a great job but his mistake rate (mainly poor passes was high) mostly early on. He needs more help and hopefully will get it with the return of Tavares and then get more when we get a #10. At the moment he is worth three salaries.

I have not seen it mentioned here yet but in attack we seemed to be playing three in defence. McGing, Ascroft and Storm at the back with Galloway pushing up and Fab playing centrally.
I think this explains why we were somewhat disorganised in defence with our defence going backwards at turnovers, and why Storm was mostly absent going forwards and how Galloway was in position to score. Good to see we can change formations without it being a total disaster and that the coach will tailor the formation for the opposition.
I also noticed that Roy was dropping back more often than usual and Powell was often more forward. Definitely do not think that worked. Roy showed that he is a striker and not a #10, however he was working hard to build an understanding with Trent with "one twos". This is something to watch developing.
I am afraid Powell is not the answer as a #10 and as a striker was disappointed to see the ball go through his legs at far post for an open goal in the 1st half.
Agree with Wombat's comments above.

I will watch the replay when I have time to confirm my above impressions or see whether they are garbage and post further.
I am more and more wrapped in Izzo, just as well there were better brains than mine in who have persisted with him. Props to goal keeping coach as well. The point is if he can show such an improvement so can some of the others.

I am starting to worry about myself being somewhat satisfied with close losses, however the improvement week to week is positive and heartening and I suspect Paolo is right and we should be there at the end.

We just need to learn how to win.

 

[nebakke]

Upside is we will improve with Tav back again but a physical wellington in the wind tunnel with Krishna's pace makes any game against them a coin toss. With a dour 0-0 or loss a more likely scenario than a good win. But we need and deserve to start picking up some more points.

No Krishna next week though, he was marched on a straight red against Perff on Thursday I have to admit, we're not getting much of luck on-the-pitch, but we're doing fairly well in the lead-up stakes this season, two gone for the Perff game, Brandan finally pulled for City, Ryall off yesterday and Krishna out next week... Not that I take delight in the misery of others mind you.

 

[BrisRecky]

Izzo was awesome (wouldnt saay that last year) Monty was everywhere, Ascroft & McGing and Gallo need a scolding, apart from one good sprint just before Trent went off , I coulda done with out Fabio , walking around with his head down most of the game (every game) Connor brought the place to life when he arrived , as for that offside goal, that liney was fkn limping in the warmup...seriously, he was, I said to mrs Recky "his pulled a calf or something"...yet he still ran the line.....I think we had the smurfs number mostly...coulda , shoulda, woulda

 

[tim...]

I would've subbed Fabio, not Buhagiar if I was PO.

 

[dibo]

Fabio gives the option of going into 10 though, where he's actually been pretty useful the last two games. That said, he was pointless against Wanderers a few weeks back.

 

[tim...]

I'm not going to sit here and pretend we're any good or that we're worldbeaters, but how much of a dick is 442's Kevin Airs?

(from FourFourTwo, i'm not linking it because this sort of drivel doesn't deserve clicks)

---------------------------
IT’S a tale of two cities…but for both of them, it is the worst of times – with no best of times on the horizon.

The only thing to smile about this season for Central Coast Mariners is that, so far, Adelaide United are doing even worse on the A-League ladder – and if you’ve seen the Mariners play recently, that’s hard to believe.

The Mariners are still spending only the absolute minimum on salary and fielding a team that would struggle in the youth league. Supplemented by only a thin spine of seniors, quality and experience are lacking and it shows.

Yesterday’s narrow defeat against Sydney flattered them, despite the scoreline (and the winner being offside).

With a few exceptions, their 90 minutes were spent passing to the opposition, being out of position and lacking any ideas.

Even the implementation of a basic long ball over the top of midfield was flawed when team-mates failed to follow up and compete for the second ball.

Partnerships were non-existent, technical ability was dismal and there was no attacking vision or defensive steel. I’m not sure there actually was a Mariners midfield.

Coach Paul Okon spent the first hour sat impassively on the bench while rival Graham Arnold stalked the touchline, barking out orders to his players and berating officials.

When his side finally scored, Okon literally did not react. Nothing. Nada. It was like he knew there was no point getting excited as it would just turn out to be a false dawn. (It was.)

In the 63rd minute, a dodgy tackle got him out of his seat and angry – but when the Mariners won their penalty, he turned his back on the action and spared himself the sight of Fabio Ferreira skying it towards Perth.

For the last 15 minutes – as Sydney made a contest of it by threatening to implode spectacularly – Okon was as passionate as anyone… but ultimately without reward.

The Mariners have been a great wee club with the perfect stadium and the FFA’s ideal of a largely family-orientated fanbase, but they have always been run on the whiff of an oily rag. Lawrie McKinna used to call them his Rag-Arse Rovers…but they still found quality and success.

It can be done on a budget. Lawrie got a Premiership and Arnie the Championship without big name marquees and little more than the salary minimum.

It must be tough to be Okon right now. Owner Mike Charlesworth clearly has one business model in place at the moment – and it’s not based on success on the pitch.

It would seem clear that he purely wants Okon – former national youth coach with an overview of all the best young talent in Australia – to bring in potential stars, showcase them in the A-League and then sell them on as soon as possible.

The problem with that though is being on a losing side almost every week is no way to develop youth or showcase their talents…

----------
Where to start?

 

[tim...]

Let's roll:

IT’S a tale of two cities…but for both of them, it is the worst of times – with no best of times on the horizon.

This point is wonderfully contradicted at the very end of the article after he's pumped up Adelaide a bit by saying "we'll have to wait til the end of season cull.

The only thing to smile about this season for Central Coast Mariners is that, so far, Adelaide United are doing even worse on the A-League ladder – and if you’ve seen the Mariners play recently, that’s hard to believe.

The Mariners are still spending only the absolute minimum on salary and fielding a team that would struggle in the youth league. Supplemented by only a thin spine of seniors, quality and experience are lacking and it shows.

"Fielding a team that would struggle in youth league" would make sense... if we weren't on top of the youth league. Moron.

Yesterday’s narrow defeat against Sydney flattered them, despite the scoreline (and the winner being offside).

With a few exceptions, their 90 minutes were spent passing to the opposition, being out of position and lacking any ideas.

We made errors, but we competed with the team at the top of the table over 90 minutes and arguably should've beaten them. This sort of analysis is poor, generalised and hyperbolic.

Even the implementation of a basic long ball over the top of midfield was flawed when team-mates failed to follow up and compete for the second ball.

Partnerships were non-existent, technical ability was dismal and there was no attacking vision or defensive steel. I’m not sure there actually was a Mariners midfield.

A thin spine of seniors, quality and experience lacking and it shows... and this is a shock to you Kevin?

Coach Paul Okon spent the first hour sat impassively on the bench while rival Graham Arnold stalked the touchline, barking out orders to his players and berating officials.

When his side finally scored, Okon literally did not react. Nothing. Nada. It was like he knew there was no point getting excited as it would just turn out to be a false dawn. (It was.)

Even as a TV viewer I saw both Okon and Jolic up and out of their seats countless times. How can he make such a certain analysis of Okon's actions if he was so focussed on how awful our football is, is beyond me.

In the 63rd minute, a dodgy tackle got him out of his seat and angry – but when the Mariners won their penalty, he turned his back on the action and spared himself the sight of Fabio Ferreira skying it towards Perth.

For the last 15 minutes – as Sydney made a contest of it by threatening to implode spectacularly – Okon was as passionate as anyone… but ultimately without reward.

Zero credit for the quality of some of the lead-up play for our goals. Zero. Everything we do is awful when conceding... but once we do something well it's only because the other mob are 'imploding'... jesus

The Mariners have been a great wee club with the perfect stadium and the FFA’s ideal of a largely family-orientated fanbase, but they have always been run on the whiff of an oily rag. Lawrie McKinna used to call them his Rag-Arse Rovers…but they still found quality and success.

It can be done on a budget. Lawrie got a Premiership and Arnie the Championship without big name marquees and little more than the salary minimum.

Would be a point worth making if it ignores the fact that Arnie's championship squad was not on the cheap.

It must be tough to be Okon right now. Owner Mike Charlesworth clearly has one business model in place at the moment – and it’s not based on success on the pitch.

It would seem clear that he purely wants Okon – former national youth coach with an overview of all the best young talent in Australia – to bring in potential stars, showcase them in the A-League and then sell them on as soon as possible.

The problem with that though is being on a losing side almost every week is no way to develop youth or showcase their talents…

More stating of the obvious - the club has made it clear its role in youth development. How he or anyone ever thought Okon was going to be able to deliver results instantaneously is kidding themselves.


When challenged on Twitter about this article, he insisted there's been no improvement on last season, citing that after R14 we had a better goal difference under Walmsley this time last year. Shallow, rubbish analysis at it's finest IMO

 

[nebakke]

I'm not going to sit here and pretend we're any good or that we're worldbeaters, but how much of a dick is 442's Kevin Airs?

He's a f*****g dillweed!

I was silly enough to allow myself to get sucked into a bit of a Twitter argument with this dimwit after Zelic' comment about how Monty should've taken greater care in a tackle because the opposing player (I forget who) had just returned from long-term injury.
Someone else made a passing comment about Fox's seeming dislike of us last season, after which Airs started accusing all of us of being conspiracy theorists - conveniently allowing him to meet any opposition with accusations such as that.

He happily engaged in a discussion online, but refused to actually consider any of the arguments... Hardly surprising for an online interaction, but disappointing for someone who refers to themself as a journalist.

He's a waste of column space, on print and online. This "article" only supports that claim...
Paolo spent most of the second half yelling at the ref - I was sure he'd be sent off after the off-side goal and while Sydney certainly deserved a win, for mine a win for us would have been equally deserved.

 

[dibo]

I promise I'm not being contrarian, but I think he has a point, and it's up to the club to prove him wrong.

I'll ignore the shit about Arnie marching about and Okon sitting down - coaches win matches on the training track, not the sideline.

We were very prone to mistakes yesterday (and every other game this year), and could've been punished severely had Izzo not had a cracker and had a couple of SFC players shown some composure in front of goal. Our goals came through a couple of good moments but this year they've been too few and too far between. On balance we absolutely could have nicked it but just as easily could've been hosed. And that's the whole problem that Airs is getting at - a bit of good luck sees us getting a point or three, a bit of bad luck sees a narrow loss turn into a shellacking.

We do make too many mistakes and our technical ability is below other sides - that's why we're struggling. It results from our squad being pretty clearly the weakest and thinnest in the league.

For all this, what he didn't write about was the fact that kids can improve, and players who look like absolute failures can turn it around.

Paul Izzo was surely on the way out (not just from the club, but likely professional football) but he's clearly worked his arse off and is a seriously good keeper now. I'd put only Vukovic and Reddy ahead of him at the moment.

We've got 16 players off contract this year. Izzo's one of them. I reckon he's earned himself a new deal, and some of the others off contract need to look to that example or a number of them are likely to not be professional footballers for much longer.

It's a long list:

• Izzo
• Adelson
• Appiah-Kubi
• Bingham
• Faty
• Ferreira
• Fletcher
• Galloway
• McDonald
• Montgomery
• Necevski
• Neill
• O’Donovan
• Poscoliero
• Roux
• Tavares

If a few of these guys find the sort of guts that Izzo has shown this year, I'd be putting us closer to finals contention than the spoon.

Even more importantly, FFA needs to sort the TV deal distributions so clubs can forward plan. Ideally it'd have been done before the January window opened so we'd be able to make improvements now knowing what we're getting from July, but the off-season leaves us with shitloads of room to move.

I understand that the cap is guaranteed to raise to $2.85m + 30% of the increase to the cash component of the TV deal. If the TV deal hits $56m a year (that's only a $16m jump on this year), then the cap is rising by $1m or so *and* we've got about $500k cap space at the current level *and* we can use the 'banking' measure to spend the "savings" from previous years then we can do some serious shopping.

Not saying MC's going to go crazy, but if someone wanted to invest in a squad there are few with greater room to move than us.

 

[FFC Mariner]

Airs is not incorrect but is only sticking up for his mate up the freeway. While we have an owner like MC we are a very easy target. The rest of the organisation below him is doing a great job on no resources. Sadly, Okon is lumbered by a squad who by and large out not be at this level. Hopefully that will change

Best way to treat people like that is to deny them the reactions they crave.

 

[nebakke]

I promise I'm not being contrarian, but I think he has a point, and it's up to the club to prove him wrong.

I'll ignore the shit about Arnie marching about and Okon sitting down - coaches win matches on the training track, not the sideline.

I don't disagree with claims that we need improvement - that much is clear. It's with way that he expresses it. Even before my, already expressed, dislike of the guy, it reads like an attempt at a hatchet job.
Not to mention that I strongly disagree with this particular line:

Yesterday’s narrow defeat against Sydney flattered them, despite the scoreline (and the winner being offside).

I'll admit that I haven't re-watched the game yet, but from my memory, it's a poor call... We weren't the best throughout the first half, but through large parts we were good enough that I actually commented to a mate that I thought we might at least be able to get away with a point.
I don't have the greatest footballing understanding of people on here, but I'd like to think that I recognise a basketcase when I see one, and that wasn't us yesterday. See the MV game, or our last trip to Wellington if you want to see what that looks like.

I then see stuff like this and can't help but feel like he's trying to pander to the lowest common denominator...

It must be tough to be Okon right now. Owner Mike Charlesworth clearly has one business model in place at the moment – and it’s not based on success on the pitch.

It would seem clear that he purely wants Okon – former national youth coach with an overview of all the best young talent in Australia – to bring in potential stars, showcase them in the A-League and then sell them on as soon as possible.

The problem with that though is being on a losing side almost every week is no way to develop youth or showcase their talents…

For mine, the significant improvement that we've seen this year, in no small way has to do with MC realising that his last line here holds true...

On a side-note, I don't see how you can ignore the shit about the coaches, it makes up more than half the bloody piece... I tend to agree with you on the relevance of it but it's hard to get away from when one of the common attacks on Walmsley last year, was his demeanour during the games.

On a whole, that entire piece reads to me like something that was pieced together during the last season and then just pushed out now...

 

[Forum Phoenix]

I don't disagree with everything Air's said - what Dibo said about mistakes and could have been hosed etc - midfield was haphazard in structure at times - but his article lacks any semblance of reasonable balance and when he tries to lay in the boot about us being a bad place for youth - comparing Okon on the bench to GA by whether he matches him in his time upright (hilarious) or that CCM's business model is just to get young players so we can sell them... which is a smart and acceptable 'part' of our business model yet wielded as though its some kind of wicked and damning cash grab...when we are forced to find ways to survive in a small market - meanwhile the team he supports is nearly half ex-Mariners and all his major staff is - because why? You're such a wondrous pillar of Australian football? No, because you out bid us. Because why? All that incredible off field work you have done to become so commercially successful? No, because you have a bigger catchment area and nothing else.

I swear if MC got so sick enough of all these wankers and just went f**k it, I'm going nuts in spending, and we ditched our youth policy assembled the most expensive team ever and dominated the league under Okon for the next three years... what do you think they'd all be saying...

The oh so mighty mariners? Nope. They'd be writing articles about how the league is losing its soul and corporate greed strangling the true spirit of competition and being "un- Australian" or some such blathering nonsense.

Shallow, elitist wankers happily punching down the lot of em.

MC has clearly made enemies, so bashing him/CCM in the press is very popular and acceptable.

Yeah yeah we need some additional spending on our squad - everyone knows it - but more to the point we also know why it's been withheld and it's as good as that reason can get - keeping the bloody doors open.

As a fan I've called for squad spending/strengthening as strongly as any and criticised the stupid statements by MC and NSO debacle etc. But I'm personally getting sick of people casting their own baseless assertions about his character or ill intentions. Painting Charlesworth out that he's all just about a cash grab when no matter how you spin it, his one major underlying action has been to invest in a regional football club. Boy, as a businessman I find this rhetoric absurdly naive. He's lost money and id wager my left bollock that he is not looking at us as his retirement fund. And if we ever did actually come good - nor would I hold it against him. Though I'd prefer to keep my bollock.

It's so ludicrously simple, we were bleeding money and our survival comes first, belts were tightened, we suffered on field as a result - that hurts. We're a proud club with passionate fans, but they are demonstrably working hard to rectify it and making clear gains, on and off the field.

Okon is obviously doing well - he has two hands tied behind his back. But a lot of that is not even lack of spending - it's how it was actually spent.

Everyone knows this. The club is hard at work on it. Quality coach, Stadium rights, COE's, community engagement, women's league, academies...

Stick to your football magazine Kevin. We've worked twice as hard as SFC and it shows in nearly every metric. And if you can't tell how much better we are now than the past two seasons... then mate, you throw up some pretty serious doubts about your football acumen or otherwise you reveal your ill will and bias.

Lost all respect for him with that article.

 

[tim...]

Outstandingly well put FP.