R10: Nix v CCM, Hamilton NZ

[shipwreck]

I look forward to the day we don't make the players we have fit the formation we need.

 

[Big Al]

Agree, but who would you put in his current role?

I'm looking through what was available last night and is Roy a possibility.

He got no service and we have tried Powell there, so is he worth a shot?

He ball to Stormy last week that ultimately lead to our goal was sublime, his work rate is high and in the absence of a better option could he be the answer whilst we don't have a 10.

I don't think Trent would let us down if he was our central striker, but there is also the option of Bingers and Powell as well

The Perth team was our best setup, with Berry instead of Powell but without Tav and Monty it's not possible. If Monty back can go Monty, Rose and Berry

 

[Holy]

The Perth team was our best setup, with Berry instead of Powell but without Tav and Monty it's not possible. If Monty back can go Monty, Rose and Berry

Agree, but Monty wasn't available last night. I hope he is back this week, but if he is not, what are Okon's options?

Powell isn't working, and I don't think he is going to change his formation.

FP suggested Junior, and he is an option, I'm suggesting Roy?

I'm curious, what are our options?

 

[priorpeter]

Stick Bingers in there, as a McBreen type perhaps

 

[Tevor]

How lucky are the Nux to have played us twice in the first 10 rounds. We have been 2 of their 3 wins as well as clean sheets. Take our games out and they have some very poor figures.

 

[Forum Phoenix]

Yup, I bet everyone wants to play the mariners

Not sure how to get out of this bind.
Don't want to keep losing - don't want the negativity to build - don't want people to turn on a mostly terrific young playing group again... but without our two best midfield players... we have to find an answer. You don't win many games if you lose the midfield battle and most teams are better than the nix in the middle of the park.

I don't think we will change our shape, and I can't see it doing what we'd be hoping it to if we did.

And with no Calvary likely... I'm not sure there is an answer beyond just waiting on Tav and Monty to return and hoping we can keep them on the park for all our remaining games.

 

[tim...]

The worst part about the results if they keep going the way they do is the predictable calls for Okon's head that will eventuate, despite the fact he's clearly a cut above both his predecessors.

 

[Forum Phoenix]

Yeah that will be infuriating and shooting ourselves in the foot. And Okon wouldn't deserve the extra unfair pressure it will bring.

I think Okon could well prove to be the best coach we've had. But like any coach you still need the players. I'm a big believer that you don't have to have the best squad on paper but that there is a threshold and a tipping point.

Like with IQ measurements and great achievements... Nobel laureates and Pulitzer prize winners etc... you don't need to have an iq of 180+ You do need to be smart enough... 135+ but once you get over that threshold it becomes all about what you do with it.

Way I see it is without Monty and Tav, our football iq has dropped below 135, and we just don't have the capacity. With a good coach, vision and ethic, we don't need a 180 score... but we do still need enough quality or nothing you coach or say can change the reality of simply being outgunned.

 

[VicMariner]

I think Okon could well prove to be the best coach we've had. But like any coach you still need the players. I'm a big believer that you don't have to have the best squad on paper but that there is a threshold and a tipping point.

With the loss of just TWO players we turn into cellar dwellers. We are so thin!
We need a better mix of youth and experience. We need to spend.

Also we have lost the winning culture we used to have. We need to see that never say die attitude and the last effort desperation back in every game. Not just parts of a few games.
Ferreira is a case in point. Where is the game winning, excitement machine we saw at Adelaide?
Mate, if you don't want to play here, f**k off and free up the cap space for someone who does.

Okon and MC and whoever else have to instill into the players that we are the giant slayer team and we belong in the top half of the table every season.

 

[style_cafe]

I quite like the idea of Roy as a 10.
At the moment it`s not working just having Roy at the front, doing the press & scoring the odd goal.
He`s not being utilised to the fullest & I`m sure he has so much more to offer.
Someone likened him to a McBreen type 10 which wouldn`t be far off the mark as he has a big motor, is tough & hardworking

Playing as a 10 it would also open the door for Bingers to get more field time & free`s up the options with Powell, Fletcher or Budgie there too.
For mine it`s worth a go.

 

[FFC Mariner]

The worst part about the results if they keep going the way they do is the predictable calls for Okon's head that will eventuate, despite the fact he's clearly a cut above both his predecessors.

Great point - this season, he cant be held responsible for the results, his employers can wear that one. Sadly, they wont. Much easier to point the finger at a coach and repeat the cycle of hope again.

I dont think he's all that, his refusal to consider a plan B when plan A clearly isnt working is a concern but maybe he doesnt think he has the cattle to do anything else either.

Starve manager of resources, predictable results ensue, manager gets fired. Rinse and repeat.

My concern is that if our capitulations continue without Monty/Tav to give them some backbone, then people will get fed up, crowds will fall and the media will resume their CCM kicking contest. Far easier for MC to fold under that pressure than admit that he has (by his actions) condemned a once proud club to being..................Newcastle (yuk)

I now ignore the members facebook page but I expect the goo feasting has started?

 

[Forum Phoenix]

I don't think he's all that, his refusal to consider a plan B when plan A clearly isnt working is a concern but maybe he doesnt think he has the cattle to do anything else either.

My concern is that if our capitulations continue without Monty/Tav to give them some backbone, then people will get fed up, crowds will fall and the media will resume their CCM kicking contest. Far easier for MC to fold under that pressure than admit that he has (by his actions) condemned a once proud club to being..................Newcastle (yuk)

Are you referring to his broader tactics - 4231 possession football? or in game?
I think he has tried to change most games when we're behind, and we've improved - I make it 6 out of the 8 times that we've needed to - after his half time talk/adjustments.

The fed up crowds bit followed by CCM kicking contest resumption is the bigger fear I think too. If MC could just be convinced to bring in two more quality players in Jan, sure we could make finals, but even more importantly keep some good will and get a run on into next season. Sounds like we're so close to ending the debt cycle...TV $$$ coming... just one more little blowout please MC... waaaffferr thin...

 

[tim...]

Great point - this season, he cant be held responsible for the results, his employers can wear that one. Sadly, they wont. Much easier to point the finger at a coach and repeat the cycle of hope again.

I dont think he's all that, his refusal to consider a plan B when plan A clearly isnt working is a concern but maybe he doesnt think he has the cattle to do anything else either.

Starve manager of resources, predictable results ensue, manager gets fired. Rinse and repeat.

My concern is that if our capitulations continue without Monty/Tav to give them some backbone, then people will get fed up, crowds will fall and the media will resume their CCM kicking contest. Far easier for MC to fold under that pressure than admit that he has (by his actions) condemned a once proud club to being..................Newcastle (yuk)

I now ignore the members facebook page but I expect the goo feasting has started?

Strangely no. A couple of comments but most are acknowledging that without Monty and Tav it's a struggle. We're expecting both back in the coming weeks so things should turn around.

Are you referring to his broader tactics - 4231 possession football? or in game?
I think he has tried to change most games when we're behind, and we've improved - I make it 6 out of the 8 times that we've needed to - after his half time talk/adjustments.

The fed up crowds bit followed by CCM kicking contest resumption is the bigger fear I think too. If MC could just be convinced to bring in two more quality players in Jan, sure we could make finals, but even more importantly keep some good will and get a run on into next season. Sounds like we're so close to ending the debt cycle...TV $$$ coming... just one more little blowout please MC... waaaffferr thin...

I think FFC is referring to when things are looking dire and we're down 1-0 or 2-0, PO is unwilling to change.

Anyway, the most annoying part for me is hearing random people claim MC is "unwilling to spend in January" - perpetuating a completely false rumour that as far as I know, has no basis in fact.

 

[dibo]

Anyway, the most annoying part for me is hearing random people claim MC is "unwilling to spend in January" - perpetuating a completely false rumour that as far as I know, has no basis in fact.

What is clear is that he's running us as tight as a fish's clacker, and nobody has any reason to suspect that that won't continue.

So people who claim that MC is unwilling to spend in January are extrapolating past behaviour into the future - I don't think that's unreasonable, whether it annoys you or not.

He may well surprise us all, and I hope he does, but I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[Ancient Mariner]

Unless we get rid of a few players we cannot add anyone in January anyway. I think we only have one place available (please correct me if I am wrong), and until Monty and Fab become neutralised we have no space for a foreigner.
Possibilities are 1) injury replacements for Adelson (and maybe Faty and Tavares). Costs should be covered by insurance.
2) Marquee, however it has been stated that we can expect a marquee every third year (maybe an aim or maybe a deal already worked out with a sponsor).

Hoping but not expecting. We were told to expect a couple of "difficult" seasons.

 

[tim...]

What is clear is that he's running us as tight as a fish's clacker, and nobody has any reason to suspect that that won't continue.

So people who claim that MC is unwilling to spend in January are extrapolating past behaviour into the future - I don't think that's unreasonable, whether it annoys you or not.

He may well surprise us all, and I hope he does, but I'll believe it when I see it.

Am I imagining the last 3 Januarys?

I'm quite confident we've had significant player movement, both in and out, over the past 3 seasons since MC's been owner.

 

[dibo]

Am I imagining the last 3 Januarys?

I'm quite confident we've had significant player movement, both in and out, over the past 3 seasons since MC's been owner.

Movement =/= upgrades. Even if it's cost MC money, there's not exactly a pattern of having significantly improved the squad mid-season.

In 13/14 we lost McGlinchey, Sainsbury and McBreen and gained Ibini, Bosnar, Kim, Cernak, Trifiro and Sim. I'm calling that one a loss - three championship players out, for one in and a troublemaker, a non-entity, a journeyman and two state league players.

In 14/15 we lost Mane and Kim and gained Major, Pandurevic and Ferreira. I'll call that a win, because Ferreira was clearly a net addition.

Last year we lost Bosnar, Reddy, Fitzgerald, Caceres, Sim and Kalik through the course of the season and coming back the other way we got Garcia (but IIRC that was 'externally' funded - sponsors ponied up, similar to when Singo got Aloisi for us), Uskok, Stella Bray, McDonald and Fletcher the other way. That's not a win.

This year I'm at least optimistic that we aren't going to have an exodus. I think the kids have their best chance here, and (shoot me for saying this if you want) most of the older players are replaceable.

The problem for us is that despite the fact that the squad has had some odd additions in recent years and could do with a clean-out, I don't really see MC paying out contracts and upgrading mid-season when in reality we're not winning anything this year.

 

[Holy]

A few who's contacts are up at the end of the year might get the tap on the shoulder and say your not in our plans and if you want out in Jan, then off you go.

Whether they are replaced or not is another matter

 

[tim...]

Maybe I'm too much of an optimist but I find the fact we bought Galloway in just before the season started-ish as a good sign.

 

[dibo]

A few who's contacts are up at the end of the year might get the tap on the shoulder and say your not in our plans and if you want out in Jan, then off you go.

I agree with this, though there's the risk that that still costs us in terms of a payout or if there's someone else looking to take them on, us potentially paying part of their wage at the new club.