Player movements 2013/2014

[Tassiemariner]

Could look at Hutch as a CLB when Trent disappears O/s. Move the Zac to CRB. Although I'd prefer to use say griffiths at CLB & have Hutch as part of the midfield rotation & if he's not good enough for a game then so be it.

Can't see Hutch as a permanent CLB. If this league was like the spanish league where for example Mascherano plays CB for Barca, I could but this league despite it's improvement in playing style towards more possession-based, it still requires tall, strong in the air CB's to deal with the physicality.

 

[true believer]

This year the upheaval meant give it to flores & see what happens but as rightly quoted he doesn't have the pace to create his own space & is more a pocket quarterback than a running quarterback.

interesting I think all the running quarter backs are short term (and shit) RG3 ,kapernicks defence makes him look better .
I believe the sea turkeys will crash and burn to . a pocket quarter back in manning will win it next Monday. give me rogers ,newtown and brady anyday.
flores wasn't the issue .our guys learning to play with him was

 

[true believer]

i'll keep plugging for hutch at cb .he plays 50% of his football there anyway.
we need to keep caceres where he is .zac is carrying an injury .it's time to have a look.
griffihs while a good defender gets caught with the ball or gives a poor pass to often.

roll the dice mossey

 

[scottmac]

Great description - sums it up beautifully.

If you were to take that description then we played the wrong formation & asked him to do something he wasn't capable of. He should have played back in midfield with 2 strikers in front rather than in the middle of 3 in a 4231.

 

[dibo]

i'll keep plugging for hutch at cb .he plays 50% of his football there anyway.

No, he doesn't.

I swear, sometimes we need a classroom and a whiteboard to draw up how our shape moves, because it's clearly not well understood, in spite of our pattern of playing out being broadly similar since Arnie took over and perhaps even before.

He's a defensive midfielder. Our basic starting play is that the DM drops deep to receive the ball as the CBs split. The CBs split so that the fullbacks can push on. Our attacks are *VERY OFTEN* started by Hutch finding a fullback in space on the flank. That means one of his dreaded sideways passes. When that's not on, often we play around the pressure by Hutch playing one of his dreaded backwards passes to the CB out wider, who then plays forwards. That's how the system works.

If you don't like the way he plays, then you don't like the system. If you want Hutch to play CB (because you think he's there anyway) then you're arguing to change the system.

It breaks down if we lose the ball to a tackle, it breaks down if the fullbacks aren't in space, it breaks down if someone misses a target.

Monty and Caceres both spent time playing that role on Saturday night, and it works well (it won't only work with Hutch) but people have to accept that it means receiving a ball with back to goal and often having pressure behind that prevents the receiver turning and playing forward. Hutch is good at it because his passes completed/passes attempted is astronomical and he very rarely loses the ball to a tackle. That's pretty much what's needed in the spot.

Pushing Hutch back to CB means he has to deal with other problems he's less well equipped for - he's not super-quick, he's not an exceptional tackler (unlike Monty who is a weapons-grade f**king menace) and he's not strong enough in the air.

If you were to take that description then we played the wrong formation & asked him to do something he wasn't capable of. He should have played back in midfield with 2 strikers in front rather than in the middle of 3 in a 4231.

Doesn't really work with our defensive shape. We drop into a block 4-4-2. Flores doesn't appear to be a great defender, so he was left up front to work with the striker to shepherd the play toward the flanks where our midfield could crush down and trap the opposing fullback, and then he'd be free to receive the ball and choose how we break (the quarterback part, I suppose). If he had to drop deep into the scrum I think he'd be both wasted and a weakness.

We started playing one up front when we got Tommy, who was similar in character to Flores. Before, with Amini, we could drop him into the scrum in midfield and he'd win the ball and get forward, so we could afford having two other players as the shepherds up forward.

That's (to me) a big part of the reason we went to two DMs - to free up the AM to sit much higher and then be part of the press rather than dropping flat with the DM into the scrum in defence.

Another option (but harder to teach and would take a full pre-season of work to build towards) would be a fundamental structural shift, opting to defend in a 4-3-3. Strikers would go wide, 10 sits in the middle and the remaining midfield three form a tight block. It doesn't especially suit how we play at the moment - it's more a Melbourne Victory type of setup.

 

[eenfish]

Can't see Hutch as a permanent CLB. If this league was like the spanish league where for example Mascherano plays CB for Barca, I could but this league despite it's improvement in playing style towards more possession-based, it still requires tall, strong in the air CB's to deal with the physicality.

Masherano/Busquets play as CB for Barca because Barcelona is about fifty times strong than any other team in La Liga sans Real Madrid and Atletico Madrid. Every other team is pushing so far back that Barcelona's high line isn't stressed, and the Barcelona's had a weakness due to their lack of big man in set piece situations. If our team was so good we could play a super high line because every team plays for a draw against us, we'd be able to get away with having ball playing DMs at CB too.

 

[true believer]

yes yes hutch may only have played 46 % at cb . fast ? a great strength .but hutch would run about the middle of the field in a 40 metre sprint , against all the other cb's .
the system with hutch staying back is because he has the least value in offence .in transition being dm or cb makes no difference to the system
the way we played was best helped when oli played dm ,yet in oli's case it's not defensive the same way caceres isn't.
we need what fits best. hutch at left cb suits me . with monty and caceres in front. no white board needed .just watch the game

 

[iEatHands]

Does anyone think that the moves by Simon, Rogic, Musti and Ibini might play on the minds of our talented youngsters to not jump at the first opportunity to move up that comes their way? We're coming up to the end of the transfer period and we've had none of the guys disappear during the season for a trial for another club! Nothing in the news either, but CCM might be a little more tight lipped about these transactions these days after all we've gone through this season.

 

[midfielder]

Mossey said after the Jest match we would sign a couple of players

Does anyone think that the moves by Simon, Rogic, Musti and Ibini might play on the minds of our talented youngsters to not jump at the first opportunity to move up that comes their way? We're coming up to the end of the transfer period and we've had none of the guys disappear during the season for a trial for another club! Nothing in the news either, but CCM might be a little more tight lipped about these transactions these days after all we've gone through this season.

Musty is doing find he is a first choice player in the number squad and it is clear from club reports they have plans for him... Matthew Ryan is doing very well... Rogic made a mistake IMO ... Olly is getting first team games... Matty S & Ibini IMO were not ready to go overseas...

Only Trent in the current squad would get OS interest and their has been some but he wants to go to the right club... but he is being very careful...

 

[midfielder]

29th today only two days until the transfer window closes ....

 

[true believer]

Only Trent in the current squad would get OS interest and their has been some but he wants to go to the right club... but he is being very careful...

he's to bloody careful ,he needs to understand just how good he is.

 

[dibo]

TB, if you can't see the difference between CBs and DMs in our system, then it's you that needs to watch the game.

 

[bikinigirl]

Only Trent in the current squad would get OS interest and their has been some but he wants to go to the right club... but he is being very careful...

. i thought trent was below his usual high standard on the weekend (and as mentioned elsewhere was filthy with himself). my first thoughts were he is loyal to a fault ... playing badly with the transfer window closing

. then reality hit and i thought maybe 'someone' was watching ... but it was having the same effect. i had never seen him so ... ummm ... flustered?

 

[style_cafe]

29th today only two days until the transfer window closes ....

the window may be open but they need to take the bloody "crimsafe" screen off!!

 

[bikinigirl]

Does anyone think that the moves by Simon, Rogic, Musti and Ibini might play on the minds of our talented youngsters to not jump at the first opportunity to move up that comes their way?

. i honestly wonder sometimes if it has the opposite effect ... take the money while it is on offer

 

[scottmac]

No, he doesn't.

I swear, sometimes we need a classroom and a whiteboard to draw up how our shape moves, because it's clearly not well understood, in spite of our pattern of playing out being broadly similar since Arnie took over and perhaps even before.

He's a defensive midfielder. Our basic starting play is that the DM drops deep to receive the ball as the CBs split. The CBs split so that the fullbacks can push on. Our attacks are *VERY OFTEN* started by Hutch finding a fullback in space on the flank. That means one of his dreaded sideways passes. When that's not on, often we play around the pressure by Hutch playing one of his dreaded backwards passes to the CB out wider, who then plays forwards. That's how the system works.

If you don't like the way he plays, then you don't like the system. If you want Hutch to play CB (because you think he's there anyway) then you're arguing to change the system.

It breaks down if we lose the ball to a tackle, it breaks down if the fullbacks aren't in space, it breaks down if someone misses a target.

Monty and Caceres both spent time playing that role on Saturday night, and it works well (it won't only work with Hutch) but people have to accept that it means receiving a ball with back to goal and often having pressure behind that prevents the receiver turning and playing forward. Hutch is good at it because his passes completed/passes attempted is astronomical and he very rarely loses the ball to a tackle. That's pretty much what's needed in the spot.

Pushing Hutch back to CB means he has to deal with other problems he's less well equipped for - he's not super-quick, he's not an exceptional tackler (unlike Monty who is a weapons-grade f**king menace) and he's not strong enough in the air.


Doesn't really work with our defensive shape. We drop into a block 4-4-2. Flores doesn't appear to be a great defender, so he was left up front to work with the striker to shepherd the play toward the flanks where our midfield could crush down and trap the opposing fullback, and then he'd be free to receive the ball and choose how we break (the quarterback part, I suppose). If he had to drop deep into the scrum I think he'd be both wasted and a weakness.

We started playing one up front when we got Tommy, who was similar in character to Flores. Before, with Amini, we could drop him into the scrum in midfield and he'd win the ball and get forward, so we could afford having two other players as the shepherds up forward.

That's (to me) a big part of the reason we went to two DMs - to free up the AM to sit much higher and then be part of the press rather than dropping flat with the DM into the scrum in defence.

Another option (but harder to teach and would take a full pre-season of work to build towards) would be a fundamental structural shift, opting to defend in a 4-3-3. Strikers would go wide, 10 sits in the middle and the remaining midfield three form a tight block. It doesn't especially suit how we play at the moment - it's more a Melbourne Victory type of setup.

From his time at Adelaide I remember a guy who was all over the park in both attack & defence. Always quick to shut down.
It would have been worth a try to put him in there (if he was at full fitness) with 2 strikers in front. He'd been playing a false 9 for a year so he was expected to be rusty back in the mids.

 

[dibo]

I think "rusty" was less a concern than "not physically capable" - he was regularly substituted from around 60m on when the legs went away from him. I just don't think him playing at the top of a diamond and dropping into the 4-4-2 in defence would work. If he were a fire-breathing 90 minute monster, sure, but that's not the Flores I've seen in a yellow shirt so far.

 

[Ancient Mariner]

He's a defensive midfielder.

Great post Dibo, however.

Actually he is a left winger, adequately filling the dm role. If he were a dm by trade he would be a better tackler.

He is good in the air, hence he can cover as a centre half in emergencies, but only then.

I remember under Lawrie when he competently filled in as a striker, and over the years have seen him score some top drawer goals.

Hutch has the ability to cover any position on the park and as we see Caceras grow into the dm role I think we will see more of Hutch on the bench as an extremely versatile sub.

Another point: Caceras is a dm not a number 10.

 

[Roy Law]

No, he doesn't.

I swear, sometimes we need a classroom and a whiteboard to draw up how our shape moves, because it's clearly not well understood, in spite of our pattern of playing out being broadly similar since Arnie took over and perhaps even before.

I prefer empty schooner glasses myself, or, if I am playing at home, beer bottles and wine glasses.

 

[scottmac]

I think "rusty" was less a concern than "not physically capable" - he was regularly substituted from around 60m on when the legs went away from him. I just don't think him playing at the top of a diamond and dropping into the 4-4-2 in defence would work. If he were a fire-breathing 90 minute monster, sure, but that's not the Flores I've seen in a yellow shirt so far.

That's why I put the "if at full fitness" I don't think he was any where near what we wanted in terms of fitness & had much improvement in him.