FFC Mariner
Well-Known Member
Doubtless Sokka hooligans drawn to the game by the historic occasion.
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NRL Hooligans thread
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serious14
Well-Known Member
MWAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! From The Australian....... it just keeps getting better and better.
"Sydney clubs killing the game?
By Brent Read
May 24, 2008
LITTLE more than a decade after the advent of Super League, rugby league is again ripe for the picking.
While interstate clubs, notably Brisbane and the Gold Coast, are flourishing, the game's traditional home is under siege and stubbornly refusing to heed the warning of NRL chief executive David Gallop, who insists clubs may die unless things change.
Sydney clubs would prefer to blame the New South Wales Government, and its poker machine tax, for their plight. They would rather flog a horse that shows no signs of life than contemplate the more realistic alternative - relocate or merge, a concept that led to rancour during Super League and its aftermath.
Gallop isn't the only prominent NRL identity suggesting Sydney clubs are in danger. Gold Coast coach John Cartwright promoted the idea of a 12-team competition recently in a magazine column, claiming that Sydney should be divided into four zones.
In effect, Sydney clubs are holding back the game. They are holding earning capacity of players because they can't afford to pay more money, something that has resulted in superstars Mark Gasnier and Sonny Bill Williams looking overseas for opportunities.
They are holding back the game's exposure on a national level by refusing to contemplate relocation.
Behind the scenes, an undercurrent of support is growing for the game to revisit expansion at the expense of overcrowding in Sydney. Most won't say it publicly, but some chief executives privately believe the only way to grow the pie is to make the game truly national.
That means returning to Adelaide and Perth, two clubs sacrificed in the wake of the Super League peace deal. It means putting a plan in place and sticking to it. It means leaving financially stricken Sydney clubs with three choices: Merge, relocate or die.
It's not a new idea, but it resonates more than ever as Sydney clubs grumble about the unfair situation created by the NSW Government.
The NRL held a two-day conference with chief executives this week at which they discussed their plight and bounced around ideas to raise revenue. What came out of it? It appears very little.
The game still has no direction. It doesn't know where it will be next year, let alone in five years. The AFL has plans to move into western Sydney and the Gold Coast, with timetables in place. Super 14 is talking about expanding its product and lengthening its season. The A-League, still in its infancy, is looking to add clubs in Queensland and possibly elsewhere.
"At the moment the game is under threat more in Sydney than anywhere else," Brisbane chief executive Bruno Cullen said of rugby league.
"That's one issue. The other threats that are coming to our game are the other truly national codes - the AFL and soccer, and to a lesser extent rugby union. They can get the big money for sponsorship and television revenue because they are national."
Rugby league, on the other hand, is preoccupied with the survival of Sydney clubs when the answer lies elsewhere. With the NRL locked into long-term television contracts with the Nine Network and Fox Sports, there will be no sudden influx of money. That means, unlike the AFL, the NRL can't afford to prop up ailing clubs. Against that backdrop, frustration grows outside Sydney, a mood which led to the Super League revolution in 1995, which in turn led to a split competition in 1997.
"When you strategise you have to know where you're at to know where you're going," Melbourne Storm chief executive Brian Waldron said.
"What I do know is there is a team called the Sydney Roosters that from my understanding has less players participating in rugby league at junior and senior level than we do in Melbourne.
"There are two teams in (southern Sydney) and surrounding areas (Cronulla and St George Illawarra) that arguably are sharing a low potential supporter base. That's just my perception.
"The reality is you have to get some research to determine where you're going. There will be some research that will tell you there's some markets that you can generate enormous revenue in outside of Sydney, or it may just be rationalisation."
Waldron, who comes from an AFL background, advocates increased ground-sharing among the Sydney clubs, as is the case in Melbourne, where the AFL sides play most of their games at either the MCG or Telstra Dome. Waldron also supports the NRL leveraging stadium officials to get better deals for its clubs.
Another option for cash-strapped Sydney clubs could lie with privatisation, a concept which has taken hold at the Warriors, South Sydney and Manly.
Each of those clubs survives thanks to wealthy benefactors - Eric Watson at the Warriors, Russell Crowe and Peter Holmes a Court at the Rabbitohs, and Max Delmege and Scott Penn at the Sea Eagles.
"We have the private ownership model in the game now," said Wests Tigers chief executive Steve Noyce, who has managed to operate his club with minimal to no leagues club support. "That's something the game hasn't had a lot of. That's possibly something people need to look at as well."
Manly chief executive Grant Mayer said any rugby league investor needed to understand there wouldn't be significant returns, a fact borne out at Souths where Holmes a Court and Crowe lost $4 million in their first year.
Sea Eagles co-owner Delmege, who bought a share in the club in 2001, is only now starting to realise the benefit of his investment - and only because he is starting to understand the power of the club's brand.
"Private ownership has got to realise that owning a football club is not about making money -- it's about other opportunities," Mayer said. "It took Max Delmege six years to see some opportunities for himself after pouring so much money into the club."
As for the future of Sydney clubs, Mayer said: "The danger is the costs involved with running a footy club are growing - and revenues aren't.
"Clubs have to find new ways to make money. If you're competing with seven other clubs in Sydney, that's a big ask.
"I have no doubt the dark cloud hanging over the game is 100 per cent accurate.
"Literally, a club could fall over within 12 months. I think it would be a wise club to act before its forced upon them and relocate now."
The NRL is conscious of the benefits of expansion, and $8 million remains on the table for a club which packs up and moves.
South Australian Rugby League general manager Bruce Walker, who won a premiership with Manly in 1978 and toured with Australia that same year, has been lobbying clubs to move games to Adelaide, a city he says is crying out for the NRL.
Like his West Australian counterpart Bill Nosworthy, who wants a team in Perth, Walker believes Adelaide would have sufficient corporate support to back a side.
Initially, he advocates a partial move involving a side potentially playing six games in Adelaide and six at its Sydney home.
To support that bid, he endorses the NRL offering $4 million - half the $8 million on offer for a complete move - to a club which plays half its home games in South Australia.
A partial move would then be the precursor to a club permanently basing itself in Adelaide, and also Perth, by the time the next television deal begins in 2013.
"They could really test the waters by doing that - six games down here and six games at home," Walker said. "You would get a lot of sponsors to be involved in that. You would make money."
NRL chief executive David Gallop questions the benefits of a side playing half its game interstate. Asked whether the NRL would consider putting $4 million on the table for a club that partially relocated, with a view to permanently moving its base, Gallop said: "Partial relocation is problematic. We would really prefer a complete move to a new area. But we have got an open mind on any proposal."
Gallop is reluctant to force Sydney clubs to move, although he understands the benefits of a national competition.
"The game has been through incredible turmoil," Gallop said in reference to the Super League war. "We have just added a team (Gold Coast) which is successful. We're not interested in a race to get dots on a map.
"We will be in new places in the short- to medium-term but it's not the time to be putting more pressure on our existing clubs by adding teams.
"We would love to be in places like Perth and Adelaide, but the local game is not ready.
"It's not like it was in the AFL where they had thriving competitions.
"We're building towards it and there will be a point where we can consider those areas."
Even if it wants to, the NRL is unable to force clubs to relocate under the terms of their current licence agreements.
As such, clubs need to move of their own volition, something Cullen says would benefit the game immeasurably by producing greater sponsorship revenue, which in turn would be drip fed back to the clubs.
"All this talk about rationalisation is not about getting more money in the pool, it's about survival," Cullen said.
Waldron is even more emphatic.
"I have been on record since the day I walked into this business, when I heard David Hill (former head of sport at Channel Nine and now a heavy-hitter with Fox Sports in the US) at my first ever chief executives conference say we had the best television product in the world in sport," Waldron said.
"I have said right from the start the only reason we don't generate more money than our competitors is because we're not truly a national game.
"Rationalise the Sydney clubs and make it a national game. Make it a national game and you'll stop having to worry. We're not talking about now, we're talking about a generational approach.
"It's something that has to happen in the next 10 years.
"What we can't forget is we still have a magnificent product. It's a wonderful product. It's not broken."
One thing has become patently clear this week: Something needs to change.
"What's the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result," Waldron said. "Many would argue we are insane at the moment in our game.""
"Sydney clubs killing the game?
By Brent Read
May 24, 2008
LITTLE more than a decade after the advent of Super League, rugby league is again ripe for the picking.
While interstate clubs, notably Brisbane and the Gold Coast, are flourishing, the game's traditional home is under siege and stubbornly refusing to heed the warning of NRL chief executive David Gallop, who insists clubs may die unless things change.
Sydney clubs would prefer to blame the New South Wales Government, and its poker machine tax, for their plight. They would rather flog a horse that shows no signs of life than contemplate the more realistic alternative - relocate or merge, a concept that led to rancour during Super League and its aftermath.
Gallop isn't the only prominent NRL identity suggesting Sydney clubs are in danger. Gold Coast coach John Cartwright promoted the idea of a 12-team competition recently in a magazine column, claiming that Sydney should be divided into four zones.
In effect, Sydney clubs are holding back the game. They are holding earning capacity of players because they can't afford to pay more money, something that has resulted in superstars Mark Gasnier and Sonny Bill Williams looking overseas for opportunities.
They are holding back the game's exposure on a national level by refusing to contemplate relocation.
Behind the scenes, an undercurrent of support is growing for the game to revisit expansion at the expense of overcrowding in Sydney. Most won't say it publicly, but some chief executives privately believe the only way to grow the pie is to make the game truly national.
That means returning to Adelaide and Perth, two clubs sacrificed in the wake of the Super League peace deal. It means putting a plan in place and sticking to it. It means leaving financially stricken Sydney clubs with three choices: Merge, relocate or die.
It's not a new idea, but it resonates more than ever as Sydney clubs grumble about the unfair situation created by the NSW Government.
The NRL held a two-day conference with chief executives this week at which they discussed their plight and bounced around ideas to raise revenue. What came out of it? It appears very little.
The game still has no direction. It doesn't know where it will be next year, let alone in five years. The AFL has plans to move into western Sydney and the Gold Coast, with timetables in place. Super 14 is talking about expanding its product and lengthening its season. The A-League, still in its infancy, is looking to add clubs in Queensland and possibly elsewhere.
"At the moment the game is under threat more in Sydney than anywhere else," Brisbane chief executive Bruno Cullen said of rugby league.
"That's one issue. The other threats that are coming to our game are the other truly national codes - the AFL and soccer, and to a lesser extent rugby union. They can get the big money for sponsorship and television revenue because they are national."
Rugby league, on the other hand, is preoccupied with the survival of Sydney clubs when the answer lies elsewhere. With the NRL locked into long-term television contracts with the Nine Network and Fox Sports, there will be no sudden influx of money. That means, unlike the AFL, the NRL can't afford to prop up ailing clubs. Against that backdrop, frustration grows outside Sydney, a mood which led to the Super League revolution in 1995, which in turn led to a split competition in 1997.
"When you strategise you have to know where you're at to know where you're going," Melbourne Storm chief executive Brian Waldron said.
"What I do know is there is a team called the Sydney Roosters that from my understanding has less players participating in rugby league at junior and senior level than we do in Melbourne.
"There are two teams in (southern Sydney) and surrounding areas (Cronulla and St George Illawarra) that arguably are sharing a low potential supporter base. That's just my perception.
"The reality is you have to get some research to determine where you're going. There will be some research that will tell you there's some markets that you can generate enormous revenue in outside of Sydney, or it may just be rationalisation."
Waldron, who comes from an AFL background, advocates increased ground-sharing among the Sydney clubs, as is the case in Melbourne, where the AFL sides play most of their games at either the MCG or Telstra Dome. Waldron also supports the NRL leveraging stadium officials to get better deals for its clubs.
Another option for cash-strapped Sydney clubs could lie with privatisation, a concept which has taken hold at the Warriors, South Sydney and Manly.
Each of those clubs survives thanks to wealthy benefactors - Eric Watson at the Warriors, Russell Crowe and Peter Holmes a Court at the Rabbitohs, and Max Delmege and Scott Penn at the Sea Eagles.
"We have the private ownership model in the game now," said Wests Tigers chief executive Steve Noyce, who has managed to operate his club with minimal to no leagues club support. "That's something the game hasn't had a lot of. That's possibly something people need to look at as well."
Manly chief executive Grant Mayer said any rugby league investor needed to understand there wouldn't be significant returns, a fact borne out at Souths where Holmes a Court and Crowe lost $4 million in their first year.
Sea Eagles co-owner Delmege, who bought a share in the club in 2001, is only now starting to realise the benefit of his investment - and only because he is starting to understand the power of the club's brand.
"Private ownership has got to realise that owning a football club is not about making money -- it's about other opportunities," Mayer said. "It took Max Delmege six years to see some opportunities for himself after pouring so much money into the club."
As for the future of Sydney clubs, Mayer said: "The danger is the costs involved with running a footy club are growing - and revenues aren't.
"Clubs have to find new ways to make money. If you're competing with seven other clubs in Sydney, that's a big ask.
"I have no doubt the dark cloud hanging over the game is 100 per cent accurate.
"Literally, a club could fall over within 12 months. I think it would be a wise club to act before its forced upon them and relocate now."
The NRL is conscious of the benefits of expansion, and $8 million remains on the table for a club which packs up and moves.
South Australian Rugby League general manager Bruce Walker, who won a premiership with Manly in 1978 and toured with Australia that same year, has been lobbying clubs to move games to Adelaide, a city he says is crying out for the NRL.
Like his West Australian counterpart Bill Nosworthy, who wants a team in Perth, Walker believes Adelaide would have sufficient corporate support to back a side.
Initially, he advocates a partial move involving a side potentially playing six games in Adelaide and six at its Sydney home.
To support that bid, he endorses the NRL offering $4 million - half the $8 million on offer for a complete move - to a club which plays half its home games in South Australia.
A partial move would then be the precursor to a club permanently basing itself in Adelaide, and also Perth, by the time the next television deal begins in 2013.
"They could really test the waters by doing that - six games down here and six games at home," Walker said. "You would get a lot of sponsors to be involved in that. You would make money."
NRL chief executive David Gallop questions the benefits of a side playing half its game interstate. Asked whether the NRL would consider putting $4 million on the table for a club that partially relocated, with a view to permanently moving its base, Gallop said: "Partial relocation is problematic. We would really prefer a complete move to a new area. But we have got an open mind on any proposal."
Gallop is reluctant to force Sydney clubs to move, although he understands the benefits of a national competition.
"The game has been through incredible turmoil," Gallop said in reference to the Super League war. "We have just added a team (Gold Coast) which is successful. We're not interested in a race to get dots on a map.
"We will be in new places in the short- to medium-term but it's not the time to be putting more pressure on our existing clubs by adding teams.
"We would love to be in places like Perth and Adelaide, but the local game is not ready.
"It's not like it was in the AFL where they had thriving competitions.
"We're building towards it and there will be a point where we can consider those areas."
Even if it wants to, the NRL is unable to force clubs to relocate under the terms of their current licence agreements.
As such, clubs need to move of their own volition, something Cullen says would benefit the game immeasurably by producing greater sponsorship revenue, which in turn would be drip fed back to the clubs.
"All this talk about rationalisation is not about getting more money in the pool, it's about survival," Cullen said.
Waldron is even more emphatic.
"I have been on record since the day I walked into this business, when I heard David Hill (former head of sport at Channel Nine and now a heavy-hitter with Fox Sports in the US) at my first ever chief executives conference say we had the best television product in the world in sport," Waldron said.
"I have said right from the start the only reason we don't generate more money than our competitors is because we're not truly a national game.
"Rationalise the Sydney clubs and make it a national game. Make it a national game and you'll stop having to worry. We're not talking about now, we're talking about a generational approach.
"It's something that has to happen in the next 10 years.
"What we can't forget is we still have a magnificent product. It's a wonderful product. It's not broken."
One thing has become patently clear this week: Something needs to change.
"What's the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result," Waldron said. "Many would argue we are insane at the moment in our game.""
Bex
Well-Known Member
I searched for crowd numbers for BT for the Melbourne Storm vs Rabbitohs game and could only find one site claiming about 8600. From what I saw on the TV, it looked like about half that. They're certainly in trouble on the Central Coast which is no surprise after they gave us the royal snub refusing to place an NRL team here.
BrisRecky
I'm an idiot savant without the pesky savant bit
well....SUNRISE this morning is saying Souths are looking at coming to the coast....lets see...Northern eagles..FLOP...the bears...FLOP....Souths.. FLOP before they get here...NO THANKS..some one go tell crowe , gallop and the other nitwits to nick off
FFC Mariner
Well-Known Member
Never happen IMHO.
The NRL are supposedly prepared to pay $8m as a one off to attract a team to relocate but the "traditionalists" will never let it happen.
And it still wont be a Coast team which is why it hasnt worked in the past.
The NRL are supposedly prepared to pay $8m as a one off to attract a team to relocate but the "traditionalists" will never let it happen.
And it still wont be a Coast team which is why it hasnt worked in the past.
BrisRecky
I'm an idiot savant without the pesky savant bit
Alicia said:Bearinator said:
I agree with Bear... :
I think if a team is from the coast people will come out to support them. When I first started going to Mariners games, I knew nothing about the game but was there to support my home team.
and the name of this team would be.....
Central Coast...umm....ummm....ummm...geez i dunno...something totally non coastal probably...demons or sum shite probably
Alicia
Well-Known Member
RECKY said:Alicia said:Bearinator said:
I agree with Bear... :
I think if a team is from the coast people will come out to support them. When I first started going to Mariners games, I knew nothing about the game but was there to support my home team.
and the name of this team would be.....
Central Coast...umm....ummm....ummm...geez i dunno...something totally non coastal probably...demons or sum shite probably
According to Singo, the Central Coast Rabbitohs!!
Souths must move to Gosford or die: George Piggins
By Dean Ritchie | May 26, 2008 12:00am
http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/sport/nrl/story/0,26799,23755702-5006066,00.html
FOR 20 long and tough years, Souths patriach and club hero George Piggins has fought the battle of his life to keep the Rabbitohs at Redfern.
Now, as much as it hurts, Piggins claims the club's biggest hope of survival is to relocate to Gosford.
And the owner of Gosford's Bluetongue Stadium - millionaire businessman John Singleton - said he would welcome the Rabbitohs to the Central Coast.
Piggins walked away from rugby league two years ago when members voted to privatise the club through new owners Russell Crowe and Peter Holmes a Court. But now Piggins believes Souths should consider quitting Sydney to guarantee their long-term future.
"I never wanted to go to Gosford," Piggins told The Daily Telegraph last night. "I wanted to go back to Redfern but that can't happen now.
"If Souths Juniors Club give some assistance, Souths might hang in.
"But if Souths Juniors don't come in, and they too are struggling with the pokie tax, then Gosford is their only opportunity - and that's a shame.
"All those that marched to get Souths back in wanted them at Redfern.
"I can't see them staying in Sydney. It's not only Souths in trouble, all clubs are in trouble."
Holmes a Court and Crowe are believed to have lost $4 million last year despite Souths reaching the finals for the first time in 19 years.
Piggins stressed the high-profile pair will never make a financial profit in rugby league.
"The longer they stay in the game, the more money they will lose," Piggins said. "But look at some of the other clubs too.
"Ask Parramatta how much they've put in and how much has come back.
"Souths are backs-to-the-wall (and) the writing has been on that wall (with Holmes a Court and Crowe).
"Did they think they were whizkids who could somehow make money along with nine other clubs in Sydney. Are they geniuses?
"They were written up as Santa Claus handing out presents. Well there's nothing in the stocking."
Singleton said it is unlikely Souths will shift to the Central Coast, despite the NRL still offering an $8 million incentive for clubs to merge or relocate.
But Singleton did tell The Daily Telegraph: "The only way it would work would be for the club to be 100 per cent relocated.
"They could be the Central Coast Rabbitohs but they'd have to live on the Central Coast, work there and train there. They would have to be a Central Coast team. They would need massive community involvement.
"There was an opportunity a few years ago for Souths to go the Central Coast but that didn't happen. But I think Souths have a contract with ANZ Stadium."
Asked about Holmes a Court and Crowe, Singleton said: "They are trying very hard."
FFC Mariner
Well-Known Member
or they dont have a bye next season and the tv money,ever dwindling pool of 1st graders goes a bit further
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