Mariners vs Wellington at NSO - Game Talk

[rbakersmith]

The figure of 1 million has to be an over inflation if ever i heard one. The FFA pays the payer wages, we have a new pay TV deal coming into effect and have the lowest rental of any A League club for a ground. It does not add up. This to me seems like a dummy spit from Charlesworth over the fact that he did not get rights to Bluetounge.

IMO the biggest drain would be the CoE - the government is footing a large part of the construction bill but the club would still have significant costs (I seem to recall that we had to pay for the rest of the land purchase earlier this year).

 

[nebakke]

If you want to remove an incentive to move games to NSO, then get more bums on seats at Bluetongue and make a full season of games there viable. Simple as that.

The club can only do so much to achieve that goal; it's up to us as fans and supporters to do the rest.

So... A record-breaking season, membershipwise, finally showing improvement there and the crowd numbers at Bluetongue growing slowly but steadily over the last 4/5 years and for some reason MC thinks it's a good idea to rock the boat?
Look at the level of local pride that is building and has been built around the Mariners... Do you honestly think that that can be maintained if the team moves out? It's an atrocious idea and would be an even more atrocious business decision. The financial environment around the club seems to be finally stabilising, so why would you shake the foundation when it is finally setting? (he said, mixing metaphores left-right-and-centre)

 

[localpom]

Hopefully this is just a dummy spit from MC. I can see the value in one game a year in North Sydney, but any more than is only going to piss people off and will have people seriously reconsidering renewing their memberships next year. If there are 4 or 5 games at NSO next year then people may decide to downgrade from a full membership to a 6 game one. The last thing most Coasties who commute to Sydney every day for work will want to do is go back down at the weekend. Count families out for this as well. Lets build on the increase in memberships this year, theres lots that can still be done to increase crowds at Bluey and tbh we are not getting crowds lower than half the league anyway. There's no logic to this at all.

 

[true believer]

well it's seems the mariners handed two seats to the liberal party . so lucy wicks and the other one.
what are you doing for the mariners ?
isn't holstiens daughter lauire's No 2 ? what are you doing for the mariners ?

where is the pay off for picking a side ? please explain

 

[dibo]

NSO has a cricket wicket, insufficient seating, a terrible layout for spectators for rectangular sports, completely inadequate corporate facilities...
If push comes to shove here, Gallop's gonna kick his arse. Gallop's also got the whip hand - FFA own the licence and can lift it and pass it to whomever they choose.

Charlesworth owns the company that (at the moment) owns the licence and also has responsibility for the biggest drain - the COE.

If Gallop lifts the licence, a new owner unencumbered by the COE would be able to find a new training base pretty quick (like maybe IFS at Kariong?) and so the basic revenue structure remains stable but the cost structure is reduced.

The TV money means that without the burden of the COE we're probably close to break-even, the FFA could even run the club itself without that much trouble right now.

 

[Ancient Mariner]

There's no logic to this at all.

Plenty of logic.

There is a lot of support for the Mariners on the North Shore of Sydney, many of theses supporters were not swept up by SFC, the same as many WSW supporters were not swept up by SFC.

Quite a few SFC supporters jumped ship when WSW started the same would happen here.

It is worth testing the water.

If Bluetongue costs lots more than NSO then it is definitely time to put pressure on the council because NSO is not cheap.

Charlesworth has big ideas on running and building a football club. He wants CCM to be a big club in a big league and will do all he can to make it. He will not sit still and continually fund losses in a club that has hit its ceiling on the coast and is not going to grow any more.

I will support my club through thick and thin and wherever they play.

To those who say "Charlesworth out". No Charlesworth, no CCM.

 

[adz]

I wouldn't mind seeing some more detailed numbers, but not holding my breath on that one.

If the club is going to be relocated because it's losing $1m/year, we should see where the money is going (there was an article the other day saying the club had received $4m in transfer fees, not sure over what period, plus there is TV money, sponsorship, and greater membership numbers...) and how exactly shifting to North Sydney will fix everything.

 

[VicMariner]

What is the break even attendance number? I've seen the figure 10,000 mentioned somewhere but that might not apply across all clubs. CCM have to be close though?
Last year the attendance was 9.9k and the season before was 9.6k.
When does the COE switch from being a liability to an asset? ie producing revenue?

Quite a few SFC supporters jumped ship when WSW started the same would happen here.

Shouldn't the first tactic be to lure them to Bluetongue?
rbakersmith said there has not been much effort in this direction. Seems like a wasted opportunity to me.

 

[go you yellow]

Whilst the commercial reality is understood, the commercial reality is that there will be a significant proportion of members who will not renew if there is a change in the # of home games being played on the coast. My expectation is that what you gain from N Sydney will be less than what you lose - at least for the first few years. The sydney market doesnt continue to support clubs who are struggling so if we are not winning on the pitch crowds will suffer. The local corporate sponsorship would be similarly impacted. It will take time to rebuild if in fact you can make the transition successful. So if the losses are large now the will be larger for the next few years. It does certainly put the club in real jeopardy. It really will be like starting all over again - I'm very worried.

 

[Big Al]

SHIT FIGHT.

1. First Free to Air Game on Friday night - Time for a protest me thinks - Yellow Army in? f**k off Charlesworth f**k off North Sydney TIFO? I'll help you hold it.
2. There is a big incentive NOT TO TRAVEL TO NSO for the Wellington game now as success breeds more games at NSO vs. support your team everywhere (but is it really our team - Certainly get the feeling it won't be).

Financial - Lets get to the point it's all about money.
North Sydney has the potential to attract a lot more corporate dollars (sponsorship more than box seats - Plus biger TV advertising by saying we are a sydney team with exposure to 1-2m people vs. 300,000 coasties). North Sydney is a business hub with a lot of financially rich businesses wanting to throw some money at something. The coast has no such luxuries.

To me either way Charlesworth wants to push hard into North Sydney - Charlesworth out because CCM will cease to exist under him IMO via a slow death or a very quick axe to the head.

The fact the insiders are saying they are worried means they are trying to get the message out there without losing there jobs. It's real IMO

It's a poor strategy to play off Gosford council against North Sydney in the public domain as it only hurts your current supporter base that just reached the target you set.

Do we know name the sauce bottle end - The north Sydney end?

If Charlesworth wants North Sydney he would be best to change everything or it will be a northern eagles. Two half arsed areas.

 

[dibo]

As TV money goes up, the break even crowd comes down. As it happens, TV money is up $600k this year, so the pressure on crowds is far less than it was.

If he takes half the games to NSO, there's a *massive* implied assumption that people will still go to the CC games in similar numbers and that we'll be drawing a new base of fans at NSO.

I think that assumption is fanciful. Why would people in the northern suburbs go watch us 6 times a year if we're not their team? This isn't a WSW thing - we're not creating a new team to represent the north, we're lending them a team from up the road that they will already either support or not support and we're fracturing our base.

If he wants some sort of tug of love thing where tearful Coasties come out and beg him to dig deep and keep the club on the Coast I think he's probably mistaken. He's more likely to simply slough off the casual support and infuriate the passionate supporters and make no friends at all because we can see what a dumb-arse play this is.

 

[Ancient Mariner]

NSO has a cricket wicket, insufficient seating, a terrible layout for spectators for rectangular sports, completely inadequate corporate facilities...
If push comes to shove here, Gallop's gonna kick his arse. Gallop's also got the whip hand - FFA own the licence and can lift it and pass it to whomever they choose.

Charlesworth owns the company that (at the moment) owns the licence and also has responsibility for the biggest drain - the COE.

If Gallop lifts the licence, a new owner unencumbered by the COE would be able to find a new training base pretty quick (like maybe IFS at Kariong?) and so the basic revenue structure remains stable but the cost structure is reduced.

The TV money means that without the burden of the COE we're probably close to break-even, the FFA could even run the club itself without that much trouble right now.

Gallop will not Kick his arse, nor will the FFA take back the licence, they have their hands full with WSW.

As for a new owner, rofl, they cannot find an owner for the success that is WSW.

Easy to find a new training base pretty quick? Just like they did before the COE? Ha ha.

Do not think that CCM is essential to the FFA, I am sure they would want the club to survive, but if Charlesworth cannot make CCM profitable either locally or in conjunction with North Sydney, CCM will either:

1) go the way of Gold Coast and Nth Qld.

or 2) go to Canberra.

 

[localpom]

Plenty of logic.

There is a lot of support for the Mariners on the North Shore of Sydney, many of theses supporters were not swept up by SFC, the same as many WSW supporters were not swept up by SFC.

Quite a few SFC supporters jumped ship when WSW started the same would happen here.

It is worth testing the water.

If Bluetongue costs lots more than NSO then it is definitely time to put pressure on the council because NSO is not cheap.

Charlesworth has big ideas on running and building a football club. He wants CCM to be a big club in a big league and will do all he can to make it. He will not sit still and continually fund losses in a club that has hit its ceiling on the coast and is not going to grow any more.

I will support my club through thick and thin and wherever they play.

To those who say "Charlesworth out". No Charlesworth, no CCM.

I understand we have a fair few fans on the North Shore, but i can't see what this will acheive except alienate existing fans...seriously who will be better off? We won't get bigger crowds at NSO, it is an inferior stadium with a rock hard pitch. I used to follow the Spirit back in the day and the crowds dropped off alarmingly after the first couple of seasons. We might gain a couple of thousand fans but will lose the same. Sydney FC have a massive marquee player in Del piero and only got 14,000 last weekend. Lets grow what we have here, the team needs to have an identity. I will still follow the team no matter what but i'll say it again...no logic!

 

[Big Al]

Gallop will not Kick his arse, nor will the FFA take back the licence, they have their hands full with WSW.

As for a new owner, rofl, they cannot find an owner for the success that is WSW.

Only because they want to much for it.

If Charlesworth wants cash why not take the SMFC offers? Bloody rich kids playing with our hearts because they can

 

[Ancient Mariner]

SHIT FIGHT.

1. First Free to Air Game on Friday night - Time for a protest me thinks - Yellow Army in? f**k off Charlesworth f**k off North Sydney TIFO? I'll help you hold it.

Careful what you wish for.
F**k off Charlesworth, goodbye CCM

 

[Big Al]

Careful what you wish for.
F**k off Charlesworth, goodbye CCM

They are gone anyway with him in charge IMO

 

[Big Al]

Can we get the fox sports camera guy to put his mug on the big screen & see the reaction

 

[Big Al]

We could get Libra Fur to be our new sponsors. Because the Mariners only come to town once a month from 2014.

 

[midfielder]

From purely a business view NSO makes sense .... rule with your heart or brain... from the heart we should stay at Gosford...

I think MC has two maybe three irons in the fire with this announcement ...

First to pressure council into leasing us the stadium rights at a price we can afford rather than what council wants..

Second a plan to move some of the smaller crowd games ... ie Nix, PG, Heart with derby matches at Gosford ..

Third get NSO for a very cheap price ..

Back of the envelope stuff ...

Say wages of staff and players ..... 3.7 m
Travel & Accommodation ............ .8 m ... i.e 20 away games including pre-season at 40K per match
Other Costs, office staff phones etc .1.2 m
Promotion ....................................... .4 m
Other stuff left out .............................5m

Total pre stadium Hire ................. 6.6m

less FFA income ............................ 2.4
Less Sponsors Income ....................0.5
Less Shirt Sales................................0.3

Total before stadium hire ............. 3.4 m

Stadium Hire + Security ................ ????

13 matches with 12, 000 per match at $ 20.00 per ticket .... 3.1 million
13 matches with 14, 000 per match at $ 20.00 per ticket ... 3.6 million


Gosford say average

13 matches with 10, 000 per match at $ 15.00 per ticket ... say 2 m...

The gist of it as I see it is to lift the derby games attendances to over 12 k full ticket paying folk...

If I was to take a guess it is to force the council to providing the stadium very cheaply ... then we would get the revenue from beer coffee & pie sales .....

 

[dibo]

Gallop will not Kick his arse, nor will the FFA take back the licence, they have their hands full with WSW.

They don't have their hands full. They're in good financial health and that was under the last TV deal. Under the new deal, with the World Cup, with another big sponsor on board they're doing just fine, ta for asking.

You reckon they couldn't carry $1 million per year when they've got an extra $20 million coming in in media and another $10-15 million in WC revenues?

As for a new owner, rofl, they cannot find an owner for the success that is WSW.

As the TV deal moves the base case for all clubs $600k p/a to the better, new owners are easier to find. As crowds and TV ratings grow, this will assist further. The league's on the cusp of a Great Leap Forward, and this idiot is chucking bricks in the air.

Easy to find a new training base pretty quick? Just like they did before the COE? Ha ha.

You think IFS wouldn't be gagging to get the Mariners in and deepen the relationship?

Do not think that CCM is essential to the FFA, I am sure they would want the club to survive, but if Charlesworth cannot make CCM profitable either locally or in conjunction with North Sydney, CCM will either:

1) go the way of Gold Coast and Nth Qld.

or 2) go to Canberra.

You reckon the FFA would gladly allow Clive Palmer Mk.II to f**k around a foundation club with two leagues and a championship to its name over a rent dispute and a dummy spit?

Charlesworth can talk about killing the club off or taking it somewhere else, but that decision isn't his.

He owns a licence, that licence comes with conditions. FFA can take it back.

He can't move half the club's games to NSO without FFA's say-so, nor can he move to Canberra, nor can he sell up to SMFC and have them move to Albert Park.

FFA will thank him for his time and take the licence back and he can go in windmill punching at something else.