Mariners v Queensland Minor Semi Finals

[Deej]

good hands?
those hands have lead us to 4 losses in a row and a terrible preparation towards the champions league.
plus who's going to take us into the new season? lawrie? tobin? lyall?
we are talking about old men who are past their worth now.. and this has been proved in the latest form and latest media interviews. they have no positive outlook, they have no answers to give.
from a spectators point of view it seems as though they are relying on the luck of the scottish.
why try to wash off the tarinsh and start again when the problems are always going to be there... week in and week out...
get some new hands. it looks for a much better outlook.

Your talking shit......how is Tobin an old man?  Lyall is a board room backer so age has nothin to do with it.
Lawrie's age is pretty normal for a professional manager/coach.

The bottom line is we didn't invest any money into the club and payed the penalty and even worse we sold our best player, without having a replacement.
The simple fact is the Squad is not strong enough and LM's loyalty to sub-standard players...Wilko, Hutcho etc, while admirable hurts us badly.

We need a Marquee player of the highest order or we will be left for dead next season.  We need to bring in some quality and clear out the deadwood and believe me bringing in more second tier wasters like Kwasnik could result in the Wooden Spoon next year.

LM should be on notice that we have to do better but our players are lazy, ineffective, technically poor and for the first time in four seasons often lacking in ticker this year. A Coach can't make a silk purse out of a Sow's ear.

Aloi$i's goals papered over the cracks last year but this year, once Jedi left (and stopped carrying the defence) the cracks were massive and we got humiliated.

We need to invest and LM has to be ruthless with much of this squad.

Do you honestly think Lawrie hasn't tried to get a big player in? Perhaps Mr Turnbull and Gorman should go a little bit deeper into their pockets so Lawrie can actually have the opportunity to get these players you desire!

People think PT is loaded full of cash, sadly he's not, and it's their fault quality players are not coming, because they won't pay the wage!

That being the case, Lawrie does the best he can and IMO he's done a fkn good job!

 

[Paolo]

Bring back fergie...../thread

 

[David Votoupal]

Well my list of coaches to bring to this country, expanded:
Joel Muller
Daniel Leclercq
Benny Lennartsson
Bo Johansson
Zdenek Zeman
Giovanni Galeone
Alan Buckley
Jose Manuel Diaz Novoa
Lloren Serra Ferrer

 

[midfielder]

good hands?
those hands have lead us to 4 losses in a row and a terrible preparation towards the champions league.
plus who's going to take us into the new season? lawrie? tobin? lyall?
we are talking about old men who are past their worth now.. and this has been proved in the latest form and latest media interviews. they have no positive outlook, they have no answers to give.
from a spectators point of view it seems as though they are relying on the luck of the scottish.
why try to wash off the tarinsh and start again when the problems are always going to be there... week in and week out...
get some new hands. it looks for a much better outlook.

Your talking shit......how is Tobin an old man?  Lyall is a board room backer so age has nothin to do with it.
Lawrie's age is pretty normal for a professional manager/coach.

The bottom line is we didn't invest any money into the club and payed the penalty and even worse we sold our best player, without having a replacement.
The simple fact is the Squad is not strong enough and LM's loyalty to sub-standard players...Wilko, Hutcho etc, while admirable hurts us badly.

We need a Marquee player of the highest order or we will be left for dead next season.  We need to bring in some quality and clear out the deadwood and believe me bringing in more second tier wasters like Kwasnik could result in the Wooden Spoon next year.

LM should be on notice that we have to do better but our players are lazy, ineffective, technically poor and for the first time in four seasons often lacking in ticker this year. A Coach can't make a silk purse out of a Sow's ear.

Aloi$i's goals papered over the cracks last year but this year, once Jedi left (and stopped carrying the defence) the cracks were massive and we got humiliated.

We need to invest and LM has to be ruthless with much of this squad.

While I admire what LM has done ...Bret your post was well written in terms of our current position ... The undeniable truth at the end of Hal 3 and knowing we where going into Asia and for quite a while now also knowing we have an increase in our cap because of the budget we have failed to recruit a solid defensive player after losing Viddy from Hal 2 & 3 and Beech from Hal 1... all the time Clarky getting older.. This has cost us dearly this season.. and has been obovious sience the pre season.

The lost of Jedi to us IMO is similar to the lost of Fred to MV, (It took MV a season to recover Fred's lost) .. maybe more so as most of our effective go forward started with Jedi... That we have no real creative mid to feed arguably the best attack in the league is again managers player recruitment... 

LM has brought a lot to the club, his constant and effective media appearances, the players to park sides etc undeniable excellent work... IMO in Australia there is no coach that is screaming I am better ... BUT the crowd last night was less than half full stadium in a final, I think our smallest crowd in a final.. Do we need to ask the question will the policy of no overseas players, do football folk want us to play a better style? ? ?

As I posted much earlier in support of Arabmariner the board have some big decisions to make.

To those so called fans who say they will never go to another game ... well get stuffed... it's Mariner till I die ... and the players gave there best ... it's not like they rolled over... if making a final and getting beaten by IMO the team that will win the title this year causes you lack respect for the shirt then give yourself a slap and if you still feel the some way a upper cut then piss off if you won't come ... and in every criticism I may have made above about LM I always stated in Australia he is equal or better than most if not all. The real arguement is player recruitment and do we need a overseas coach.

The Choppers may have shown the way with the appointment of what appears to be a top draw coach from OS... do we follow suit.

 

[midfielder]

Well my list of coaches to bring to this country, expanded:
Joel Muller
Daniel Leclercq
Benny Lennartsson
Bo Johansson
Zdenek Zeman
Giovanni Galeone
Alan Buckley
Jose Manuel Diaz Novoa
Lloren Serra Ferrer

You left off Arnold ... why

 

[David Votoupal]

Look at that list. Managers whose teams have beaten some of the biggest names in Europe. Any of them would raise the profile of Australian football in the world immensely.

 

[tyson]

It seems like its pretty easy to get rid of a squad of players, bring in new players that are better from somewhere with a salary cap and a 4 international player limit.

Surely one of David Votoupal's coaches could do the job.

 

[tyson]

Well my list of coaches to bring to this country, expanded:
Joel Muller
Daniel Leclercq
Benny Lennartsson
Bo Johansson
Zdenek Zeman
Giovanni Galeone
Alan Buckley
Jose Manuel Diaz Novoa
Lloren Serra Ferrer

You left off Arnold ... why

Because Arnold wouldn't be as good with the community as these guys. It would be very hard to afford him, also.

 

[FFC Mariner]

To those so called fans who say they will never go to another game ... well get stuffed... it's Mariner till I die ... and the players gave there best ... it's not like they rolled over... if making a final and getting beaten by IMO the team that will win the title this year causes you lack respect for the shirt then give yourself a slap and if you still feel the some way a upper cut then piss off if you won't come

Well said

and to the person who even thought of raising Arnoldouts name, you should be ashamed of yourself.

 

[Omni]

Anyone who thinks like that wasn't here in Season Two. Also what is with giving up so quickly? CCM were 2-0 down after the first leg last year (I know there are differences but it's definitely not over)

Queensland will win the title because the FFA are doing everything in their power to make it happen! (Any update on the FFA paying for our flights and 5* accom in Brisbane?)

 

[Sean]

Anyone who thinks like that wasn't here in Season Two. Also what is with giving up so quickly? CCM were 2-0 down after the first leg last year (I know there are differences but it's definitely not over)

Queensland will win the title because the FFA are doing everything in their power to make it happen! (Any update on the FFA paying for our flights and 5* accom in Brisbane?)

Just like you Omni, im not giving up. I believe i can fly, I believe that i can touch the sky, and i believe that if we can score the 1st goal this friday in Bris, its game on moles.

 

[Razorback]

I think most people on this forum will turn up regardless, its only a select few venting frustration at wasted dollars to watch shit. With the Central Coast being a Rugby League heartland its no surprise that the supporters are so fickle. I know I don't know anyone on this forum personally however from the general dialogue it easy to notice that their are plenty of ex pats who show the Mariners the same loyalty that they would their team back "home" in slight chance of watching quality football. I place myself in the same boat.

The issue with the crowds is that while we were so successful last year plenty of Rugby League and Union fans had jumped on the mariners bandwagon to support their local football team and region in a national comp. The crowds were great, it was exciting and everyone was happy. The problem is once we start losing games and dolling up the shit that we have in previous weeks these fans are going to leave the game, evident by 9500 that showed up on Friday.

Its been said a thousand times on this forum that there is clearly an 8000 to 9000 cohort that will turn up regardless. To get back to the near sell outs of last year the board needs to serve up the same product as last year - a big name (a la aloisi) that people other than football tradgics and ex pats have heard of to put bums on seats and a team that can play attractive football and a manager that can instill this in their players. Obviously easier said than done but by achieving this you can add another 5000+ to the crowd figure and even more for finals football.

The board surely realises that the crowd is an issue and things need to be addressed or we can kiss regular profits good bye and say hello to lower table results. The competition has changed and evolved, its about time that the club realises this and moves with the times or sadly less and less people will be showing up to the BT every week.

 

[Sean]

+1. the 9000 crowd was indicative of the last month of football our team has produced.

 

[kevrenor]

+1. the 9000 crowd was indicative of the last month of football our team has produced.

I agree that is the main issue, but there were three other factors at work:
a) The change to tickets, ie. you had to go out and buy a ticket, where with a season ticket it is easy to decide to turn up, and you had to work at getting a seat where you wanted it (FFA not allowing seats to be rolled over)
b) The increased cost (actually price gouging by FFA in hard economic times was loony) incl. no GA.
c) Friday night is a shit night for us - only once in 2 seasons have we pulled over 10K and that was a scum derby - our 3 finals games last year were Sunday)

I also agree that the league has moved on and in year 5 our club will have to change it's approach to putting a team on the park, while they will need to get the fans/community more onside again.

FFA also need a boot up the backside to improve it's approach.

 

[fruitbat]

To those so called fans who say they will never go to another game ... well get stuffed... it's Mariner till I die ... and the players gave there best ... it's not like they rolled over... if making a final and getting beaten by IMO the team that will win the title this year causes you lack respect for the shirt then give yourself a slap and if you still feel the some way a upper cut then piss off if you won't come

Well said

and to the person who even thought of raising Arnoldouts name, you should be ashamed of yourself.

Disagree on 2 counts.

1.You confuse the team with the franchise. The team HAS tried its best. I dont believe the franchise has-it needs to the put funds (including the transfer fee windfall) in to  getting the best players possible. Penny pinching wont achieve it.

2.Dont shoot the messenger. If fans are unhappy, the management needs to listen and correct the situation. And telling fans to piss off doesnt help matters. Its all very well to show loyalty, but as with loyalty to friends, if the friend keeps doing the wrong thing and wont listen to good advice, you may have to cut him adrift. Ditto with franchise management.

Lastly, I AGREE that whoever suggested Arnold should be ashamed.

 

[jaypee]

+1. the 9000 crowd was indicative of the last month of football our team has produced.

Agree and I also think the reason we have been down on numbers -apart from economic crisis and shite football for the past 4 weeks, is the lack of a NAME MARQUEE. Fact is we are still a Thugby League area and until ALOISI hit twon last year our numbers were not great. This area needs a name Marquee to get the turnstiles up.... Our play will also improve if we get the right one. Personally I would forget looking at forwards or Backs. Our MF is the real issue. Our Backs look inept because they are being over run, our forwards look like V2 because we have no quality getting them the ball.

Many laughed early in the season when it was suggested we should pick up Juninho from Choppers. Fact is if fit he would still have carved this league and remember how good he made Brosque look (NOT an easy thing - akin to polishing a TURD).... He is the kind of player we need, one that can unlock defenses as we have no idea in that final 3rd.

If we get a Marquee like that then we get a good DM and I believe we have the makings of a very good team....

 

[David Votoupal]

I suggested some quite big name, proven coaches who've been highly successful and defeated big names in Europe... and yet someone had the nerve to ask why Arnold isn't on the list.

 

[tyson]

David, while your coaches may be proven, they are going to cost a lot, and I can't see them sticking around for long. One of the best things about the club and why we have been reasonably successful over 3 of the 4 years is because of the stability with-in the club - Stability that a team like Sydney doesn't have, which is why they have only 1 Premiership to their name with so many big name players.

You also have to consider the work Lawrie has put into getting the community behind the team and keeping them keen. He still does this work and I can't see one of your big name coaches putting the effort into this.

I don't think a new coach is really necessary, but it is definitely time to get a good marquee who will lead the team, play good football and get the crowd's faith back.

 

[Arabmariner]

Worst posts in this thread: "I'm never coming back", "Waste of money attending", "Unlucky if you're going to Qld" etc.

There are three very good sides in the comp this season - and we ain't one of them. In many ways, it's unfortunate that we have to be the finals bunnies. We lost our best player (for better or worse) and all our momentum a month ago, and we'd been looking better than we should have at that point because we'd saved up our games against the top sides for last. Wellington, Sydney, Perth, Newcastle...they all would have struggled big time in the finals too.

What was most disappointing for me was the lack of belief in the team that saw us making great comebacks earlier this season. After the first goal (another schoolboy marking error by Pedj in recent weeks), heads went down, effort went down.

Looking forward to getting Friday out of the way and moving towards Asia for a bit of a fresh start.

The squad is due for a refresher, but not a massive cleanout imo. There just isn't the talent floating around that is better than what he have. I propose we simply need 2 high-quality signings on top of the core squad we have now, including an experienced leader, and we'll be right in there. We were there or thereabouts when we had Mile.

And in the last four games, against the A-League benchmarks, we have been 'in' each game, and with some luck could have come away with something. Last night we almost scored in the 2nd minute and I haven't seen a replay but thought Matty should have had a penalty. Probably didn't deserve to win any of the four, but we're not miles away.

We don't have depth in the right areas. We looked brilliant at times with two up front but again changed to a 4-3-3, probably more because we have no decent midfield replacements but plenty of strikers to spare. The balance needs to be adjusted, and Huke's signing is a starting point to that.

One fairly consistent factor in the successful teams is an experienced, influential player who has runs on the board and will lift the rest of the team to a higher level. MV have Musc**t. Qld have Moore. Sydney were top of the league while Popovic was still playing. CCM V3 had Vidmar. When heads have gone down this season, there's been no one to turn to.

The team has troughed and peaked over the four seasons. Most A-League teams have. Melbourne have gone from shite to brilliant to shite to excellent. Adelaide have been more consistent but had their shocker in V3 and Asia preceeding that. We've had great years in V1 and V3 but poor years in V2 and V4 - poor but far from diabolical.

Given that, it would be an overreaction to look at Lawrie's head. I know you can't excuse bad results forever, but there surely has to be far more reason than where we're at now for a change of empire. Look at our short history - McKinna is more than capable of winning games with the right players, and he is more than capable of recruiting the right players. I, like all, bemoan the effect of Jedi's absence on the team. But I remember where he came from.

There other thing is, and people on the forum tend to moan and groan at this sort of statement but it IS a factor worth considering, McKinna had a huge role in the creation of the club and a bigger role in its connection with the community. If you throw McKinna out you risk throwing out the identity of the club and going down the Sydney FC route - disillusioned fans occasionally turning up in the hope that a decent club might eventually present itself.

I'm not an apologist for the tactics, selections and subs, because I don't agree with a lot of that recently. But it's about pros and cons, and perspective. This is one of the most frustrating times in the club's history, because it seems like there is little hope the situation will change moving forward. But you're kidding if you think Farina or anyone else would have done any better with the cattle we had last night. And if you could have swapped Moore and McKay onto our team, I'll bet we would have won 2-0.

Let's get Friday out of the way, look forward to an exciting Asian journey, make a couple of key additions to the squad hopefully including an influential marquee, and get back to a peak year rather than this trough. And if nothing's changed in 12 months, come and see me again.

"Let's get rid of LM he has only got us to the finals in 3 of the 4 seasons, only 2 GF's and only one plate. It does not matter that he is the heart and soul of the club, we demand better"

I don't think anyone on here would disagree that Lawrie has been/is great for the club in many ways.I just think he's taken us as far as he can.

The record of 3 finals series in 4 years also deserves a bit more scrutiny.

The facts are.....V1 finished 3rd in the league 11 pts behind the winner.
                      V2 finished 6th 21 pts behind the winner.
                      V3 finished 1st (34 pts lowest winning total)
                      V4 finished 4th 10 behind the winner.

It's also worth noting that Sydney are apparently in turmoil yet we finished only 2pts in front........... ???

To me that record says "not bad but hardly brilliant".

As far as the two grand finals are concerned,I enjoyed them as much as anyone but really imo it's a farce when a team can finish 10 pts behind the league winner(us this year) and potentially be crowned "champions".

 

[David Votoupal]

David, while your coaches may be proven, they are going to cost a lot, and I can't see them sticking around for long. One of the best things about the club and why we have been reasonably successful over 3 of the 4 years is because of the stability with-in the club - Stability that a team like Sydney doesn't have, which is why they have only 1 Premiership to their name with so many big name players.

You also have to consider the work Lawrie has put into getting the community behind the team and keeping them keen. He still does this work and I can't see one of your big name coaches putting the effort into this.

I don't think a new coach is really necessary, but it is definitely time to get a good marquee who will lead the team, play good football and get the crowd's faith back.

Let me set the record straight.

I am loathe to play musical chairs with managers, and I admire what McKinna has done for the club and community.

At the same time, I also think the club needs to rethink its style of play and its approach to signing players, because these are two things holding the club back more than anything.

The reason I'm looking to foreign coaches long term is for the good of our league and the game in Australia, because our league is in dire need of an injection of ideas for improvement.