"I for one welcome our insect overlords" - The Politics Thread

[FFC Mariner]

then she's purged her oath of office .

I actually feel sorry for her - she is clearly unwell and someone needs to take her aside and have a word. Namely, "Lidia, stop talking"

 

[Big Al]

If you read the Constitution it is pretty vague-only provides a frame work for how the nation should be run and is very light on detail so those who say the Yes campaign was short on detail should read the Constitution and find out what a sparse document it is.The Constitution is itself open to interpretation so any addition or amendment would also be open to interpretation.Therefore the argument that the Voice should have had more detail would make it more a decree from the Government and less of a framework how the Voice as an advisory body should function.The Voice was envisaged as an advisory body to Parliament on First Nations issues.How the make up of the Voice members would be left up to First Nations peoples and Communities to determine.

If there had been a bipartisan approach the referendum would have overwhelmingly in favour of the Voice being established so give me that bullshit that Dutton's political manoeuvrings did not contribute largely to the success of the No campaign.

Albanese,naively or foolishly( take your pick),believed that the so called " innate fairness" of Australians would get the Yes campaign over the line.He left a lot of the campaigning to the well known First Nations leaders-Burney,Pearson,Davis and Langton-as he felt that as it was about their people they should take the lead and it was technically the right approach but maybe some passion and fire as a Whitlam or a Keating would have injected would have been more productive.

The only detail was there will be a voice group of aboriginals. That was it. Reporting to no one about nothing i particular.
If that sounds like a good business plan doesn’t it. A lot of people wanted to vote for something that would genuinely help but that was not a viable option.

They should of said who it reports to and about what. All these ads saying my health will be better or my kid will be recognized where just BS.

Albo never asked Dutton for his support. He went it alone as a political promise and post being elected he thought only about his own power and thought he could do it without anybody else. That’s his fault not Dutton.

He wasn’t in the country to do any campaigning himself

All done now anyway but rightly questions are being asked of Albo

 

[pjennings]

The only detail was there will be a voice group of aboriginals. That was it. Reporting to no one about nothing i particular.
If that sounds like a good business plan doesn’t it. A lot of people wanted to vote for something that would genuinely help but that was not a viable option.

They should of said who it reports to and about what. All these ads saying my health will be better or my kid will be recognized where just BS.

Albo never asked Dutton for his support. He went it alone as a political promise and post being elected he thought only about his own power and thought he could do it without anybody else. That’s his fault not Dutton.

He wasn’t in the country to do any campaigning himself

All done now anyway but rightly questions are being asked of Albo

Agree that all is over now but there was always this detail.

Culture and Empowering Communities | NIAA

Strengthening of Indigenous cultural expression and conservation and working with communities to set priorities and greater influence over decisions that affect them.

voice.gov.au

Been there since the beginning. It was repeatedly said by Albanese because I saw him at press conferences on SBS. I never saw any of that reported on 2, 7, 9, 10 or Sky.

As Dutton has said repeatedly today Indigeneous Recognition in the Constitution has been Coalition policy since 2013. They asked what the Indigenous People wanted and the Uluru Statement was the answer they got. They just did nothing about it. It is disingenuous to say a different model should have been put. The LNP asked what the Indigenous People wanted. Albanese tried to pass it. To water it down would have meant that Warren Mundine, Lidia Thorp and depending what day you ask Jacinta Price would oppose it.

As I have stated before Dutton was consulted by Albanese and while he did not give support he vowed the Liberals would remain agnostic while the Nationals always opposed it. At that time eash state and territory leader and opposition leader supported it. Then the Liberals lost the Aston by-election and in spite of majority support for remaining agnostic in his partyroom he verballed his own partyroom to say they agreed to a no position.

So

1) Albanese delivered on his promise for a referendum, which was previously not delivered after the 2013, 2016 and 2019 elections (when there would have been bi-partisan support) and indeed it was their policy in the 2022 election. Dutton also promised another referendum which he has withdrawn today.

2) The ALP promise was to put the referendum as asked for by the Uluru statement. It was never going to be delivering what was not asked for - something that depending on the day or time of day the LNP were offering as a compromise in spite of opposition to what the No campaign said would be a paternalistic 'pat on the head'.

3) Dutton was consulted and vowed not to oppose it.

4) Dutton opposed it.

5) There was always detail there. In fact the no campaign wanted the voice to report to Parliament not Executive Government knowing that at that time all the work has already been done. So they knew there was detail - just easier to lie about it. Maybe the IPA, Mineral Council, BCA and the rest of the lobbyists should only advise Parliament after the Acts have been written.

 

[Wombat]

Can we conclude...


1. It was a shambles.
2. The wasted money could have built alot of infrastructure for the Koori people.
3. Albanese is basically a cheerful moron.
4. The proles are slighty smarter since Covid.

 

[marinermick]

Can we conclude...


1. It was a shambles.
2. The wasted money could have built alot of infrastructure for the Koori people.
3. Albanese is basically a cheerful moron.
4. The proles are slighty smarter since Covid.

Why is it that the Koori people only get the infrastructure? What about the other first nations in Australia?

 

[booney]

Koori refers to indigenous people from Victoria and NSW.In Qld they are known as Murri and in Arnhem land Yolngu.In southwestern WA Noongar and around Adelaide Kaurna.

 

[Wombat]

Why is it that the Koori people only get the infrastructure? What about the other first nations in Australia?

That is true. Mainly i hear Koori and Murri used but I take your point Mick and Booney.

 

[scottmac]

The only detail was there will be a voice group of aboriginals. That was it. Reporting to no one about nothing i particular.
If that sounds like a good business plan doesn’t it. A lot of people wanted to vote for something that would genuinely help but that was not a viable option.

They should of said who it reports to and about what. All these ads saying my health will be better or my kid will be recognized where just BS.

Albo never asked Dutton for his support. He went it alone as a political promise and post being elected he thought only about his own power and thought he could do it without anybody else. That’s his fault not Dutton.

He wasn’t in the country to do any campaigning himself

All done now anyway but rightly questions are being asked of Albo

Wow.
You really soaked up all that horse shit.

The Constitution NEVER has detail in regards to how things work so you'll never vote on something specific to be included in the Constitution.

 

[scottmac]

Agree that all is over now but there was always this detail.

Culture and Empowering Communities | NIAA

Strengthening of Indigenous cultural expression and conservation and working with communities to set priorities and greater influence over decisions that affect them.

voice.gov.au

Been there since the beginning. It was repeatedly said by Albanese because I saw him at press conferences on SBS. I never saw any of that reported on 2, 7, 9, 10 or Sky.

As Dutton has said repeatedly today Indigeneous Recognition in the Constitution has been Coalition policy since 2013. They asked what the Indigenous People wanted and the Uluru Statement was the answer they got. They just did nothing about it. It is disingenuous to say a different model should have been put. The LNP asked what the Indigenous People wanted. Albanese tried to pass it. To water it down would have meant that Warren Mundine, Lidia Thorp and depending what day you ask Jacinta Price would oppose it.

As I have stated before Dutton was consulted by Albanese and while he did not give support he vowed the Liberals would remain agnostic while the Nationals always opposed it. At that time eash state and territory leader and opposition leader supported it. Then the Liberals lost the Aston by-election and in spite of majority support for remaining agnostic in his partyroom he verballed his own partyroom to say they agreed to a no position.

So

1) Albanese delivered on his promise for a referendum, which was previously not delivered after the 2013, 2016 and 2019 elections (when there would have been bi-partisan support) and indeed it was their policy in the 2022 election. Dutton also promised another referendum which he has withdrawn today.

2) The ALP promise was to put the referendum as asked for by the Uluru statement. It was never going to be delivering what was not asked for - something that depending on the day or time of day the LNP were offering as a compromise in spite of opposition to what the No campaign said would be a paternalistic 'pat on the head'.

3) Dutton was consulted and vowed not to oppose it.

4) Dutton opposed it.

5) There was always detail there. In fact the no campaign wanted the voice to report to Parliament not Executive Government knowing that at that time all the work has already been done. So they knew there was detail - just easier to lie about it. Maybe the IPA, Mineral Council, BCA and the rest of the lobbyists should only advise Parliament after the Acts have been written.

All of that detail could have been changed. It was never set in stone how it was going to work and rightly so. That was for parliament to decide on the runnings of it after the fact, the way they do with every other type of advisory body we have.
So many people had so many things wrong about this.

 

[pjennings]

All of that detail could have been changed. It was never set in stone how it was going to work and rightly so. That was for parliament to decide on the runnings of it after the fact, the way they do with every other type of advisory body we have.
So many people had so many things wrong about this.

Exactly. And that is what is said in the attachment. The parliament has primacy.

 

[Big Al]

Wow.
You really soaked up all that horse shit.

The Constitution NEVER has detail in regards to how things work so you'll never vote on something specific to be included in the Constitution.

We didn’t just vote for the constitution.

 

[Insertnamehere]

We didn’t just vote for the constitution.

Thats exactly what we voted for. Even the question on the sheet said that.

How shocked you're about to be when each state enacts a voice legislatively and signs a treaty.

 

[true believer]

time to celebrate the bullshit NO campaign while the natives can have cholerae

shame australia shame


BREAKING: Jacinta Price partied all night with Gina Rinehart and her mining mates at the NO vote party. Price and her white elite “mates” sipped on $300 bottles of champagne all night, celebrating the oppression of First Nations people. #Referendum2023 #VoiceReferendum




https://www.smh.com.au/cbd/gina-rinehart-and-a-tale-of-two-referendum-night-events-20231015-p5ecex.html

 

[Omni]

They’ll keep her around, conservatives love having a token non white person.

 

[Omni]

My hope is that this is done legislatively anyway. All the constitutional change would have done is REQUIRE it. Set up a voice anyway.

 

[pjennings]

My hope is that this is done legislatively anyway. All the constitutional change would have done is REQUIRE it. Set up a voice anyway.

It won't be. At least not formally federally under Albanese. The referendum was promised, it was delivered and he will respect that decision and will not legislate it in the face of that result. He has been meticulous in sticking to what he said before the election - otherwise the stage 3 tax cuts would have been cut/changed.

That doesn't mean that there won't be more engagement with Indigenous leaders before deciding on policy settings in areas that affect them - it just won't be a formal 'voice'.

 

[pjennings]

Back to the stage 3 tax cuts. I suspect that the top end rates will be reduced significantly by reintroducing a tax scale. People want rental support (which Labor will want to neutralise as a Green's weapon) and that will cost money apart from any other services. This won't happen before the next election but will be taken to the next election.

Negative gearing is supposed to be a tool to force up the supply of housing (and thereby push down costa and rental cost) but at the last census more than 1 million dwellings were empty. I also expect at the next election that a provision to claim negative gearing on housing investment properties will also be changed to provide that negative gearing is only allowed for the proportion of the year that the property is occupied to ensure that the money foregone is actually going to increase housing supply.

Double dip franking credits may also come up again.

Stage 3 tax cuts

Current rates

0 - $18,200 Nil
$18,201 - $45,000 19c for each $1 over $18,200
$45,001 - $120,000 $5,092 plus 32.5c for each $1 over $45,000
$120,001 - $180,000 $29,467 plus 37c for each $1 over $120,000
$180,001 and over $51,667 plus 45c for each $1 over $180,000

Legislated rates 2024-2025

0 to $18,200 Nil
$18,201 to $45,000 19c for each $1 over $18,200
$45,001 to $200,000 $5,092 plus 30c for each $1 over $45,000
$200,001 and over $51,592 plus 45c for each $1 over $200,000

Something like what I expect to be taken to the next election

0 to $18,200 Nil
$18,201 to $45,000 19c for each $1 over $18,200
$45,001 - $150,000 $5,092 plus 30c for each $1 over $45,000
$150,001 - $200,000 $39,592 plus 37c for each $1 over $120,000
$200,001 and over $58,092 plus 45c for each $1 over $200,000

 

[FFC Mariner]

Back to the stage 3 tax cuts. I suspect that the top end rates will be reduced significantly by reintroducing a tax scale. People want rental support (which Labor will want to neutralise as a Green's weapon) and that will cost money apart from any other services. This won't happen before the next election but will be taken to the next election.

Negative gearing is supposed to be a tool to force up the supply of housing (and thereby push down costa and rental cost) but at the last census more than 1 million dwellings were empty. I also expect at the next election that a provision to claim negative gearing on housing investment properties will also be changed to provide that negative gearing is only allowed for the proportion of the year that the property is occupied to ensure that the money foregone is actually going to increase housing supply.

Double dip franking credits may also come up again.

Stage 3 tax cuts

Current rates

0 - $18,200 Nil
$18,201 - $45,000 19c for each $1 over $18,200
$45,001 - $120,000 $5,092 plus 32.5c for each $1 over $45,000
$120,001 - $180,000 $29,467 plus 37c for each $1 over $120,000
$180,001 and over $51,667 plus 45c for each $1 over $180,000

Legislated rates 2024-2025

0 to $18,200 Nil
$18,201 to $45,000 19c for each $1 over $18,200
$45,001 to $200,000 $5,092 plus 30c for each $1 over $45,000
$200,001 and over $51,592 plus 45c for each $1 over $200,000

Something like what I expect to be taken to the next election

0 to $18,200 Nil
$18,201 to $45,000 19c for each $1 over $18,200
$45,001 - $150,000 $5,092 plus 30c for each $1 over $45,000
$150,001 - $200,000 $39,592 plus 37c for each $1 over $120,000
$200,001 and over $58,092 plus 45c for each $1 over $200,000

There's your LNP win right there. Meddle with tax breaks and you are doomed.Cost Shorten the election (that and the fact that no one likes him)
Inner cities are gone for both major parties. Teals and greens will get their votes.
The battleground is now traditional labor heartland where Dutton can wage a Trump/Bojo campaign without fear of upsetting the rich.
The Voice showed them how to win. Tax reform will confirm it.

 

[pjennings]

Quite possibly - but we can't keep funding tax cuts for the top 1% and still demand increased services and support.

 

[booney]

There's your LNP win right there. Meddle with tax breaks and you are doomed.Cost Shorten the election (that and the fact that no one likes him)
Inner cities are gone for both major parties. Teals and greens will get their votes.
The battleground is now traditional labor heartland where Dutton can wage a Trump/Bojo campaign without fear of upsetting the rich.
The Voice showed them how to win. Tax reform will confirm it.

Isn't a pity that the electorate in this country is so obsessed with tax breaks,franking credits,negative gearing ,etc but couldn't give a stuff about indigenous people and refugees.You are correct about that 2019 election where the misinformation peddled about franking credits and tax reform cost Shorten the election.At the time there was no problem with interest rates and exorbitant rents( not in all cases granted) so for most people their financial situation was not too bad.However the LNP at that time had actively worked against climate change,demonised refugees,given big tax concessions to big business , not done anything about social housing and blithely ignored our Pacific neighbours' problems with rising sea levels but FMD people voted for that absolute twat Scomo.

Now with increased interest rates,increased rents and dearer food and fuel I can understand that these hip pocket issues may well turn voters against Albo especially that LNP now knows that many will swallow their lies and miinformation.