"I for one welcome our insect overlords" - The Politics Thread

[Ironbark]

Wasn't meaning to make this into a whole thing, merely describing a challenging social phenomenon, but...fine I'll expound.

Where does influence (power) actually lie? With our short term politicians?
Or the corporations, billionaires and lobbyists?
Follow the money, who pays the least taxes? Who has the most influence over actual legislation?

Whenever change at scale threatens their status quo, their bottom line, and for some of the super wealthy, their ideologies - they seed misinformation and these days the bullshit culture wars to go with it. Without consensus in the community change doesn't get up. In many cases they can actually double down on what they're doing.
Tobacco did it very well, as did/does the fossil fuel industry. Trump has done it to great effect. Divide opinion and scatter any momentum for change. Make it emotional, ideology based so people feel they have a side to choose. Social media amplifies it, and bots are used to leverage misinformation.

It's the standard tactic these days. While the masses bicker and argue over a thousand made up lies, consensus is gone and it's business as usual for those who profit from business as usual

 

[true believer]

Hold on....arn't those it power using that stategy with this nonsense.

are you talking about gina,clive ,rupert and the rest of the IPA hiding behind an array of mercenary's ?

 

[Wombat]

are you talking about gina,clive ,rupert and the rest of the IPA hiding behind an array of mercenary's ?

No.

 

[true believer]

No.

Ahh channelling ben fordham

 

[gemkayem]

Wasn't meaning to make this into a whole thing, merely describing a challenging social phenomenon, but...fine I'll expound.

Where does influence (power) actually lie? With our short term politicians?
Or the corporations, billionaires and lobbyists?
Follow the money, who pays the least taxes? Who has the most influence over actual legislation?

Whenever change at scale threatens their status quo, their bottom line, and for some of the super wealthy, their ideologies - they seed misinformation and these days the bullshit culture wars to go with it. Without consensus in the community change doesn't get up. In many cases they can actually double down on what they're doing.
Tobacco did it very well, as did/does the fossil fuel industry. Trump has done it to great effect. Divide opinion and scatter any momentum for change. Make it emotional, ideology based so people feel they have a side to choose. Social media amplifies it, and bots are used to leverage misinformation.

It's the standard tactic these days. While the masses bicker and argue over a thousand made up lies, consensus is gone and it's business as usual for those who profit from business as usual

Murdoch, Rhinehart and co couldn’t lie straight in bed. Sickening what the likes of them are allowed to have influence over

 

[FFC Mariner]

Murdoch, Rhinehart and co couldn’t lie straight in bed. Sickening what the likes of them are allowed to have influence over

Is it scarier that they probably don't tell lies or act dishonestly.
The system is rigged in their favour so why should they ?

 

[Ironbark]

Do you genuinely believe Murdoch, Rhinehart et al. don't tell lies?

 

[gemkayem]

Do you genuinely believe Murdoch, Rhinehart et al. don't tell lies?

You get it

 

[pjennings]

 

[midfielder]

Just gotta agree with Stan

 

[Wombat]

How much did the labor party just waste?

 

[Ozhammer]

Only $400M

 

[JoyfulPenguin]

How much did the labor party just waste?

Nothing compared to the same sex marriage postal survey which could have been done with a vote in Parliament.

You can't change our Constitution without a referendum.

 

[pjennings]

How much did the labor party just waste?

If there is any reason for optimism it is that Albanese did spend the $350 million. The Coalition went to each of the elections from 2013 to 2022 promising a referendum on constitutional recognition for Indigenous Australians within their first 12 months. They were promised bipartisan support from the ALP. There should be optimism that a government is delivering on a promise.

 

[Capn Gus Bloodbeard]

If there is any reason for optimism it is that Albanese did spend the $350 million. The Coalition went to each of the elections from 2013 to 2022 promising a referendum on constitutional recognition for Indigenous Australians within their first 12 months. They were promised bipartisan support from the ALP. There should be optimism that a government is delivering on a promise.

There is definitely something in that, though I don't think the public actually places any value on whether promises are delivered or broken, sadly.

While a referendum is optimistic at the best of times, I can't help but wonder if Albo ever had any chance of trying to negotiate bipartisan support with Dutton - that's the only chance it would have had.

But, given Dutton's history - and the fact that they only opposed it to make Albo look bad - it probably wasn't possible.

It's just been particularly disheartening to see the dirty politics played through this, the amount of intentional misinformation that's been thrown around, from the top down - and we know already from leaks that the overall strategy for no was to campaign on misinformation, fear and confusion (as we know, the LNP directly opposed people seeking information). I resent the fact that this was how the debate went, rather than a genuine debate on information and merits - and I resent that this result says those politics and tactics have a place in democracy. Although, it's far the the first time we've seen this approach in politics.

Just feels like politics is getting worse, and worse, and worse these days. Even distressing to see the increased infiltration of Trumpism here - conspiracy theories about election validity and all sorts of nonsense

 

[true believer]

There is definitely something in that, though I don't think the public actually places any value on whether promises are delivered or broken, sadly.

While a referendum is optimistic at the best of times, I can't help but wonder if Albo ever had any chance of trying to negotiate bipartisan support with Dutton - that's the only chance it would have had.

But, given Dutton's history - and the fact that they only opposed it to make Albo look bad - it probably wasn't possible.

It's just been particularly disheartening to see the dirty politics played through this, the amount of intentional misinformation that's been thrown around, from the top down - and we know already from leaks that the overall strategy for no was to campaign on misinformation, fear and confusion (as we know, the LNP directly opposed people seeking information). I resent the fact that this was how the debate went, rather than a genuine debate on information and merits - and I resent that this result says those politics and tactics have a place in democracy. Although, it's far the the first time we've seen this approach in politics.

Just feels like politics is getting worse, and worse, and worse these days. Even distressing to see the increased infiltration of Trumpism here - conspiracy theories about election validity and all sorts of nonsense

im just ashamed of the country !
i wrote albo months ago why he was gunna lose .

keating would have won the referendum by going after price , dutton and mundine .
as well as the IPA , rinehart ,stokes and murdoch .

labor may be lucky to be returned next election and will certainly be crippled. unless they go after
the disinformation machine .

 

[Capn Gus Bloodbeard]

labor may be lucky to be returned next election and will certainly be crippled. unless they go after
the disinformation machine .

How would you do that?

Fair point about Keating....unfortunately, ALP have been afraid of the LNP for some time.

I'm reminded of the trust campaign with Abbott and Gillard. Somehow, LNP managed to gaslight Australia into thinking Gillard was the liar, when Abbott had more documented lies in a week than Gillard had in her entire term, all over the carbon tax (and Credlin has since admitted she fabricated the entire campaign - that she knows Gillard didn't lie).

When the more untrustworthy party has managed to also get the monopoly on trust, how do you break that?

I wonder how this referendum result will play into the next election. It will certainly hurt Albo, but I wonder if the LNP will use it to attack, perhaps by stirring up conspiracy theories and the sort again.

God, the thought of the fascist potato ruling the country is unfathomable.

 

[true believer]

How would you do that?

1 Fair point about Keating....unfortunately, ALP have been afraid of the LNP for some time.

2 I'm reminded of the trust campaign with Abbott and Gillard. Somehow, LNP managed to gaslight Australia into thinking Gillard was the liar, when Abbott had more documented lies in a week than Gillard had in her entire term, all over the carbon tax (and Credlin has since admitted she fabricated the entire campaign - that she knows Gillard didn't lie).

3 When the more untrustworthy party has managed to also get the monopoly on trust, how do you break that?

4 I wonder how this referendum result will play into the next election. It will certainly hurt Albo, but I wonder if the LNP will use it to attack, perhaps by stirring up conspiracy theories and the sort again.

5 God, the thought of the fascist potato ruling the country is unfathomable.

1 as over 500,000 australians have already demanded . a murdoch royal commission .
2 you mean the campaign ran by the murdoch media .see 1
3 see 1
4 yep
5 morrison was in the process of taking us to a dictatorship . having already controlled 5 ministries .
this was done with the tacit approval of murdoch through stooges simon benson and geoff chambers .

now also throw in lida thorpe that will now vote with conservatives ,once the voice was cruelled.

labor learnt nothing from gillard .
as churchill said "you cant negotiate with a lion when your head is in it's mouth ."

 

[Insertnamehere]

How would you do that?

Fair point about Keating....unfortunately, ALP have been afraid of the LNP for some time.

I'm reminded of the trust campaign with Abbott and Gillard. Somehow, LNP managed to gaslight Australia into thinking Gillard was the liar, when Abbott had more documented lies in a week than Gillard had in her entire term, all over the carbon tax (and Credlin has since admitted she fabricated the entire campaign - that she knows Gillard didn't lie).

When the more untrustworthy party has managed to also get the monopoly on trust, how do you break that?

I wonder how this referendum result will play into the next election. It will certainly hurt Albo, but I wonder if the LNP will use it to attack, perhaps by stirring up conspiracy theories and the sort again.

God, the thought of the fascist potato ruling the country is unfathomable.

So consider how dumb the average person is. Then consider that half the population is dumber than that.

 

[Ironbark]

So consider how dumb the average person is. Then consider that half the population is dumber than that.

So true