Mug think your on the wrong page ccm played Tuesday.
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CCM Fans and the club
- Thread starter Shaun Mielekamp
- Start date
- Status
FFC Mariner
Well-Known Member
They can reflect on their shiny title to console themselves.
The GG result is a new low. Inexcusable
Mug Punter
Active Member
Shaun my apologies for playing the man there. Despite what some peanuts here think I am a fan, I just don't drink the Koolaid
And I appreciate you are trying to do a tough job to the best of your abilities with an appalling boss.
My view is simple - the fans ARE the club. Players, coaches administrators and owners all will come and go but the only thing that stays constant is the fans.
And anyone who buys a club treating it like a normal business that MUST make money and just keep expecting the fans to foot the bill will find out fast that this is a sure way to an even worse result as MC is finding. You actually had a viable club but it's fast becoming a basketcase
You're treating us like mugs. I suspect MC has separated his property deal, which will make money, from the club and he is just running the football club business down. He'll get his property deal finished, and he needs the football club as an unfortunate side business until It's online. He'll then either wind the club up or put a gun to the head of the FFA and demand a relocation to sydney.
After all we have put up with I don't think it is unreasonable for the club to spend the full salary cap this year. So I'm asking you, what % re the cap are we spending?
Gratis
Well-Known Member
Basic logic suggests this isn't the case. The club was hemorrhaging money - plugging holes is different from demanding profit. No one in their right mind buys as football club as a profit making enterprise, and someone who can afford one well and truly knows that. There are literally thousands of better options to invest in that would guarantee a considerably beefier profit.
As for:
- again if MC was looking to enter into a development opportunity there are significantly easier and cheaper options than buying a football club that loses $million/s annually and paying out its debt and taxes, and all before borrowing to actually then do the development. Whatever motivation MC had to buy the club it wasn't profit.
Mug, I understand you're upset with the way the team is going and you have every right to feel this way. And to demand better.
But these particular sorts of suggestions are feeble at best and born of anger rather than clarity.
midfielder
Well-Known Member
Mug
I guess you vote for Trump or hope he wins.
I was at Union meeting tonight "She who must be obeyed" is the union rep at the school she works at and we were going out after the meeting so I went with her.... guest what all these Mug Trump supporters were their at the union meeting...
Did they go off when I told em they would all vote Trump.... as you will...
All the reps there as you have expressed in your various post have two strongly held beliefs, the first is you can't trust those in charge, the second is everybody in power is there for their individual purposes not for the greater good. That is who is voting for Trump people who no longer trust government and think the worst of their motives.
Mug you don't trust MC and I don't think anything anyone post will get you to change your mind and you believe he is only here to make money on a land deal.
From my view and hand on heart not the other thing.... MC was brave and made some huge calls about the position we were in, he held a number of fan forums and did a very long fans podcast where he answered many questions put to him by fans.
After the forums and the pod cast I finally understood our position and what he was doing to fix it.... It made sense and I did not like a lot of what he said simply because I did not want it to be true I wanted to continue to live in a fairy-tale land I had been in.
You can bleat and spruce, abuse, criticise and confuse all you want but it won't change the facts....
Alas you can no doubt point at some things that may have been done better.... however overall MC gave us a workable plan roughly 12 months ago and we are half way through it... He said it would take two years of pain and last year would be the worst.
Your call you either have some trust in what your being told or as I said sadly today there is so little trust in government their agencies and commerce.... that people want to over throw the establishment ... and vote for Trump..
I guess you vote for Trump or hope he wins.
I was at Union meeting tonight "She who must be obeyed" is the union rep at the school she works at and we were going out after the meeting so I went with her.... guest what all these Mug Trump supporters were their at the union meeting...
Did they go off when I told em they would all vote Trump.... as you will...
All the reps there as you have expressed in your various post have two strongly held beliefs, the first is you can't trust those in charge, the second is everybody in power is there for their individual purposes not for the greater good. That is who is voting for Trump people who no longer trust government and think the worst of their motives.
Mug you don't trust MC and I don't think anything anyone post will get you to change your mind and you believe he is only here to make money on a land deal.
From my view and hand on heart not the other thing.... MC was brave and made some huge calls about the position we were in, he held a number of fan forums and did a very long fans podcast where he answered many questions put to him by fans.
After the forums and the pod cast I finally understood our position and what he was doing to fix it.... It made sense and I did not like a lot of what he said simply because I did not want it to be true I wanted to continue to live in a fairy-tale land I had been in.
You can bleat and spruce, abuse, criticise and confuse all you want but it won't change the facts....
Alas you can no doubt point at some things that may have been done better.... however overall MC gave us a workable plan roughly 12 months ago and we are half way through it... He said it would take two years of pain and last year would be the worst.
Your call you either have some trust in what your being told or as I said sadly today there is so little trust in government their agencies and commerce.... that people want to over throw the establishment ... and vote for Trump..
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Forum Phoenix
Well-Known Member
Great post Middy.
rbakersmith
Well-Known Member
MC would have spent almost as much propping up the football club. He could have gotten better value for money developing elsewhere.
Hi Shaun,
Has there been any movement on the below? Three years after it was announced and correct me if im wrong, still doesnt exist.
Has there been any movement on the below? Three years after it was announced and correct me if im wrong, still doesnt exist.
Our Elite Indigenous Football Academy will be the first of its kind in Australia and will provide talented but disadvantaged indigenous kids the best possible opportunity to realise their dreams of becoming professional footballers,” Mr Charlesworth said.
FFC Mariner
Well-Known Member
This. If there wasnt money in CoE he would have been insane not to simply walk away when PT fell over.
dibo
Well-Known Member
The property development is a huge deal. I've no idea what it'd be worth in the longer term, but it's a fair guess that in the construction phase it's a massive drain on MC's cash reserves. This hugely limits the amount that can be poured into the football club.
Whether this changes now that the office block is up or not I really don't know. I'd guess that the earnings from the office block are reinvested to drive the next stages of the development while the going's good, so until the project is fully mature, I wouldn't expect to see it delivering significant cash back to MC. It's going to be an appreciating asset though, because this:
In the meantime, I don't doubt that $20m might have been spent on the football club (quite likely more), but that money won't have been 'lost'.
The initial 'purchase' was (if reports at the time were accurate) essentially simply to take over debt in return for the equity. MC took over the club and promised to pay the players' wages and super that were owed, plus debts to the ATO, Gosford City Council and anyone else who was outstanding.
The purchase price was effectively zero, but in agreeing to take on that debt he's basically said that the value of the debt is the value of the club. I remember hearing at the time that that that sum was $7m.
Since then, he's run the club for three years - I remember seeing a figure saying the average A-League club spends around $8m a year, so he might well have spent $24m in that time.
But don't forget that in that time there was income from FFA, commercial, merchandise, memberships and ticketing, not to mention transfer fees...
Even still, I can completely believe that the average loss in that time was $1m. That puts the total spend on the football club at $31m with a cash loss of $10m.
There's only so long you can keep piling on more cash - there's a limit to how deep MC's pockets are.
Let's assume for a moment that he loses another $1m this year, but then the club hits break-even and that's sustained. His total cash output will have been $11m.
But against all of this, the value of the asset improves as future cash flows look stronger (because the club's no longer haemorrhaging money and because there's an improved TV deal in the offing). I don't reckon it's worth the $10m that MC has poured in at the moment, but if the TV deal is a good one that situation may change.
If the league develops and strengthens so that in 7 years (i.e. 10 years after he bought the club) he can move the club on for $25m, he will have made his money back with interest. If he can package it up with the COE (which all along has meant to be the thing that provides financial ballast for the football club, and should boost its price) he's probably laughing.
This is a long-run game - 10 years ago nobody would've expected the *cheapest* MLS clubs to be valued at $100m or that the league would be charging an expansion fee of more than $100m (that is you have to pay the league $100m just for the right to spend a load of cash on a team and a stadium to participate!).
The gamble is whether the league (and this club within it) is going to develop! Along with cash constraints, the amount of cash MC is willing to spend on the football club right now will be related directly to his feelings about how likely he is to be able to get that back down the track.
[EDIT: added sources for the MLS info - the MLS is jacking the expansion fee to $200m!]
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FFC Mariner
Well-Known Member
Good post but he made a profit last year remember 
Forum Phoenix
Well-Known Member
You add a lot of value to this forum and supporter group Dibo. Thank you.
Ancient Mariner
Well-Known Member
Great post Dibo, one of the best.
Maybe now, hopefully, contributors here will understand what is involved in owning the Mariners and we will see some more intelligent posts about realistic suggestions for what we need to move forward.
Maybe now, hopefully, contributors here will understand what is involved in owning the Mariners and we will see some more intelligent posts about realistic suggestions for what we need to move forward.
Fishsdad
Well-Known Member
AM, it is indeed a great post from Dibo, and provides a great lesson in business / economics. But I doubt it will result in 'more intelligent posts (and) realistic suggestions..." from other contributors. And TBH I wouldn't want this to occur.
This forum has a good balance between the practical / rational, and those who post raw emotion. I like reading both, and don't want it to change.
I like our fans to be emotional, and I like reading their 'heart on sleeve' comments - it keeps the forum very real, and adds flavour to the debates. I like people getting upset when we play poorly (plenty of opportunities currently) and hearing their suggestions - whether it be "Walmsley out', or who we need to buy, or tactical suggestions, who should be playing in what position etc.
I don't post much, but have to say I was crushed by the way we played against GG, so much so that I 'bit the head off' a colleague at work the next day who had the temerity to mention the game. And I won't even begin to describe the reaction to the performance from Fishsmum.
The rationalists make good sense and bring a certain calm to the discussion, but the emotional rants help calm my frayed nerves - long may they continue.
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