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CCM Fans and the club

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dibo

Well-Known Member
My issue with the post above is the bit about the clubs "true owners" the fans.

Until fans are allowed to buy proper equity and get representation, that can never happen.
To get away from private ownership, there are basically two alternatives.

One is a membership model where the company would be converted to one limited by guarantee and all of us members are entitled to a vote for the Board. That really doesn't suit clubs in the A-League, at least not at the moment. The reason is down to cashflow - A-League clubs burn cash in a way that NRL and AFL clubs don't - their grants and other equalisation measures tend to keep them afloat (on average) and they've had a lot more time to build up an asset base to act as ballast against bad years. New clubs coming in get rivers of gold to get them over their establishment period - both Gold Coast and GWS in the AFL have had squillions tipped in by the governing body.

Our governing body doesn't have the cash to do that, so the private owners have to kick in.

Compared to our present situation where a private owner is the one who tips in the shortfall, the membership would have to cover it through increased dues etc. On a $1m annual loss, you're talking about a further $200 or so per member just to keep the doors open. That's tantamount to doubling most people's memberships or doubling member numbers at current prices. And that's to stay where we are. To get ahead (i.e. spend more on players and backroom staff) we might need to raise twice that or more.

The other is an equity model like the Green Bay Packers (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Bay_Packers):

The Packers are the only community-owned franchise in American professional sports. Rather than being the property of an individual, partnership, or corporate entity, they are held in 2014 by 360,584 stockholders. No one is allowed to hold more than 200,000 shares; approximately 4% of the 5,011,557 shares currently outstanding. It is this broad-based community support and non-profit structure which has kept the team in Green Bay for nearly a century in spite of being the smallest market in all of North American professional sports.

The last stock sale was priced at $250 per share.

Applied to our circumstances, to cover a recurrent $1m loss, we're going to need to raise $1 million to get to 2017 with wind in the sails, or we need to sell 4,000 shares. That's about two shares per three members. And again, that's to hold station, not to get ahead.

Remembering that many of our members are kids, we might be talking about somewhere up around 4 shares per adult member.

Football clubs eat money, and once the new TV deal kicks in and all the other boats are raised as well, we're not going to be guaranteed to live in the land of milk and honey for evermore, so the first equity offering won't be the last.

*Excess* demand will therefore be limited because there is extra stock being issued, so you will be unlikely to grow the value of the share beyond inflation. They're not going to pay dividends, because they'll need to reinvest any cent they *do* make (if they ever make any).

Can you and all your mates even afford to drop $1,000 on something to make you feel good, where you know you'll get no return on your money, and in all likelihood the club will come knocking again in a couple of years?

It's one of those really nice warm fuzzy ideas that has a few pretty major practical difficulties to it.
 

Ancient Mariner

Well-Known Member
If he is a misguided fan I take it back.

Wombat backs off because he could be mistaken. :)

Doubt was put in his head not by a check from Dibo, but by AM liking his original post. :D


Seriously if Mug Punter is not a troll, he is a death rider and is far more damaging to the club and this forum than a troll could be, especially its relationship with the club through the good offices of Shaun. In the early days the powers that be did not want to acknowledge any fan organisation at all. We have come a long way and do not want idiots harming what is a very positive step by management.

The Mug deserves any abuse he cops.

Keep up the good work Wombat. :thumbup:
 

Ancient Mariner

Well-Known Member
To get away from private ownership, there are basically two alternatives.

One is a membership model where the company would be converted to one limited by guarantee and all of us members are entitled to a vote for the Board. That really doesn't suit clubs in the A-League, at least not at the moment. The reason is down to cashflow - A-League clubs burn cash in a way that NRL and AFL clubs don't - their grants and other equalisation measures tend to keep them afloat (on average) and they've had a lot more time to build up an asset base to act as ballast against bad years. New clubs coming in get rivers of gold to get them over their establishment period - both Gold Coast and GWS in the AFL have had squillions tipped in by the governing body.

Our governing body doesn't have the cash to do that, so the private owners have to kick in.

Compared to our present situation where a private owner is the one who tips in the shortfall, the membership would have to cover it through increased dues etc. On a $1m annual loss, you're talking about a further $200 or so per member just to keep the doors open. That's tantamount to doubling most people's memberships or doubling member numbers at current prices. And that's to stay where we are. To get ahead (i.e. spend more on players and backroom staff) we might need to raise twice that or more.

The other is an equity model like the Green Bay Packers (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Bay_Packers):



The last stock sale was priced at $250 per share.

Applied to our circumstances, to cover a recurrent $1m loss, we're going to need to raise $1 million to get to 2017 with wind in the sails, or we need to sell 4,000 shares. That's about two shares per three members. And again, that's to hold station, not to get ahead.

Remembering that many of our members are kids, we might be talking about somewhere up around 4 shares per adult member.

Football clubs eat money, and once the new TV deal kicks in and all the other boats are raised as well, we're not going to be guaranteed to live in the land of milk and honey for evermore, so the first equity offering won't be the last.

*Excess* demand will therefore be limited because there is extra stock being issued, so you will be unlikely to grow the value of the share beyond inflation. They're not going to pay dividends, because they'll need to reinvest any cent they *do* make (if they ever make any).

Can you and all your mates even afford to drop $1,000 on something to make you feel good, where you know you'll get no return on your money, and in all likelihood the club will come knocking again in a couple of years?

It's one of those really nice warm fuzzy ideas that has a few pretty major practical difficulties to it.

Rugby League clubs all used to be community/fan run organisations. They are now gradually moving to being bought out by individual or conglomerate owners.
 

Ancient Mariner

Well-Known Member
My issue with the post above is the bit about the clubs "true owners" the fans.

Until fans are allowed to buy proper equity and get representation, that can never hap.

It will never happen.

And if in the unlikely event that it eventuates and there are some fans willing to fork out $1,000 for 0.2% share of the club with no hope of ever seeing a dividend, and the likelihood of future share issues, diluting your percentage or requiring you to buy more, how much influence do you think you will have at the AGM voting your shareholding. Even if you got fifty like minded fans, you would be ignored, even if you were allowed to speak.

If you really want to be involved organise a group with the ability to raise and invest millions. I think if you could raise $4m you may be able to get a large share that would be 1% less than MC owns. If you could raise $10m he would probably sell you the lot.

Good luck. :popcorn:
 

Ancient Mariner

Well-Known Member
My issue with the post above is the bit about the clubs "true owners" the fans.

Until fans are allowed to buy proper equity and get representation, that can never happen.

If you believe that fans are the true owners and you see yourself as a fan, you should be doing all in your power to get behind and support the club, rather than saying you will not purchase membership and only attend away games.
 

dibo

Well-Known Member
Hi, technical support?

I've got this football club but it seems to be malfunctioning. Can I turn it off, and turn it back on again?
 

Rowdy

Well-Known Member
Hi, technical support?

I've got this football club but it seems to be malfunctioning. Can I turn it off, and turn it back on again?

G'day evening Mr Doobee,

My name is Apu-Dave from Technical Support and I am calling to notify you that your Football Club has been infected vith a werry-werry bad wirus, known as a "Vormsley", I can fix this for you immediately if you provide me vith your credit card details, or your passport details, or your medicare card #, or your banking account number.

Dibo:
What about my Mariners Membership number ???

No ....I'm werry sorry Mr Doobee,
your Mariners Membership number is useless for fixing this wirus.

Are you avare that you have overpayed your tax to the ATO as well Mr Doobee ??

I can also help you with that refund !

Dibo:
What about my beloved Football club ???

No, same as last year Mr Doobee, there is no-refund from the Mariners.
 

BrisRecky

I'm an idiot savant without the pesky savant bit
So Shaun. You gonna sack the jibbering idiot after yet another career lowlight or you just happy to get back to back wooden spoons....and no gormless platitudes thanks if you ever reply
 

Paolo

Well-Known Member
A fan's entitled to be angry if they think the club is failing to meet some form of acceptable standard of recruitment and management.

Personally, I agree with his assessment that we're weak, I just think that the background is such that it's effectively inevitable. In other words, he's in Anger, whilst I'm in Acceptance.

How is that acceptance going Dibo?

Shaking with anger
 

Bristol_1978

New Member
Give Warmsly a break he got the games mixed up he thought we were playing the Green Bay packers at football and green gully at at NFL
 

Rowdy

Well-Known Member
Charlesworth presses button on Plan-B:
images-38_zpsyiyf6za2.jpg

harry-redknapp_2444330e-1-1_zpssrgk3cgj.jpg

beats_by_dr_dre_logo.jpg


In a world's first, Central Coast Mariners owner Mike Charlesworth has announced a digital sponsorship deal with both 'Skype' & 'Beats by Dre' that will allow new Mariner's Coach Harry Rednapp to manage the team in his dressing gown & slippers from the comfort of his lounge room on the other side of the globe in England, following the sacking of Tony Walmsey.

With German supermarket chains 'Aldi Pre-Paid Mobile' - the clubs official mobile network partner, there are serious concerns whether the club will have the cash for the pre-paid minutes required for such techy things, as well as additional sideline screens & Go-Pros for Harry to abuse the 4th Official.

Charlesworth is excited with the .......
 
Last edited:

sydmariner

Well-Known Member
Charlesworth presses button on Plan-B:
images-38_zpsyiyf6za2.jpg

harry-redknapp_2444330e-1-1_zpssrgk3cgj.jpg

beats_by_dr_dre_logo.jpg


In a world's first, Central Coast Mariners owner Mike Charlesworth has announced a digital sponsorship deal with both 'Skype' & 'Beats by Dre' that will allow new Mariner's Coach Harry Rednapp to manage the team in his dressing gown & slippers from the comfort of his lounge room on the other side of the globe in England, following the sacking of Tony Walmsey.

With German supermarket chains 'Aldi Pre-Paid Mobile' - the clubs official mobile network partner, there are serious concerns whether the club will have the cash for the pre-paid minutes required for such techy things, as well as additional sideline screens & Go-Pros for Harry to abuse the 4th Official.

Charlesworth is excited with the .......
:vhappy::goodpost:
 

Mug Punter

Active Member
So, how do we all feel about our spanking new squad after last night?

9th or above would be a remarkable result. I guess that is what happens when you have a year where the leadership of the club states that results just don't matter, how insulting is that to the people who stump up for their full ST. Perhaps you could adjust the prices this year according to how much it matters.

Since you still read here Shaun, how are the ST sales looking for this season?
 

Mug Punter

Active Member
So Shaun. You gonna sack the jibbering idiot after yet another career lowlight or you just happy to get back to back wooden spoons....and no gormless platitudes thanks if you ever reply

Don't hold you breath, surely last night was an all time low for the club
 
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