CCM Fans and the club

[Big Al]

I think he meant scrap the floor of the cap

 

[Ancient Mariner]

Yeah just for clarification the takeaway from my quoted article was the bolded bit about thinking it Ok to ask the first team coach to try a rugby lineout formation in a football game. In no way was I offering excuses or passing comment on Moss as a manager. To be honest Moss, Walmsley, Okon and Mulvey have all blurred into one really really bad manager in my memory - I can't remember when one started and the other one finished. I think without doubt we have finally gotten proper manager back and the first one since Arnold - he is just starting from a much lower base and without as much resources so we need to be patient and will be rewarded with some better times are ahead.

I suspect the line out comment would have been suggested as a joke by someone and Moss is turning it around to explain that it was not his incompetence that got him kicked out but that the Club was off the planet. I take anything he says about his time here with a grain of salt.

 

[Pirate Pete]

I suspect the line out comment would have been suggested as a joke by someone and Moss is turning it around to explain that it was not his incompetence that got him kicked out but that the Club was off the planet. I take anything he says about his time here with a grain of salt.

When I first read the line out bit I thought it sounded like him just putting shit on the club.
I wouldn't be surprised if he made it up.

 

[neverwozza]

Sure didn't really contemplate that but it makes sense I suppose.

 

[Ironbark]

I think he meant scrap the floor of the cap

My first thought after reading the calls to scrap the cap were this. Removing the floor means we can achieve Spoon without it burning a mil from MC's hip pocket.

But, as I started asking recently in another thread: does scrapping the cap make us more appealing to investors/buyers?

The answers put forth so far have pivoted around the idea that the Australian market is small and so wouldn't warrant the coin.

But would a Red Bull (for the example) or equivalent see it that way?
- In an uncapped league they could bring in names to attract interest,
- and use us as first team experience for bench players and youth in other, stronger teams in the network.
- Their brand exposure would be visible in all the major markets across Australia regardless of which club in the A-League it fronts.
- A Drogba in a Central Coast Red Bulls shirt would certainly be seen and would sell shirts, both in Australia and overseas.
- Add to this using the club as an Australian youth feeder club scouting talent across Aus.

This wouldn't happen so often before in an FFA regulated, salary capped league. But if they take restrictions off (cap, visa limits etc.)?

I also suggested that it appears we're looking down the barrel of a death by a thousand cuts the way things are going. Increasing the number of visa/ marquee spots - and being able to sell those spots to other teams - combined with even just an increased cap limit spreads the rich from poor, anchors us to the bottom and kills us through the downward spiral of attrition.

So maybe it's worth the hail mary of an uncapped league? I'd rather go down kicking and screaming or even better landing a rich rich owner/investor over going down whilst complacently agreeing to whatever the big clubs want.

 

[Ozhammer]

When I first read the line out bit I thought it sounded like him just putting shit on the club.
I wouldn't be surprised if he made it up.

I’m pretty sure I heard that line out comment came directly from MC back then so I don’t personally think Mossy is embellishing the situation, albeit that he was a poor coach imo and a petty one with some of the stuff that went on when he was in charge.

 

[pjennings]

...
I cannot see any advantage for these calls to get rid of the cap, for the Mariners.

An unregulated league clearly favours the rich clubs.

The only story that makes sense, that I can guess, is that he has a buyer lined up who will not buy in until the A-League becomes totally independent and unregulated. It is consistent with his past statements that investment will come with independence.
If it is a big European club looking to Australia as a cheap source of quality youth players. This could also make sense with the emphasis (especially from Anton) on encouraging youth to come to the Club.

The theories that he is prepared to lose millions running the Club into the ground just do not make sense.

My story is just a guess but why else would someone keep the Club on nothing more than life support.
...

When I spoke to MC his love of football was real and I believe that he wants football in Australia to succeed. But he is first and foremost a businessman based to a large extent in Britain.

My reading of the tea leaves is similar to yours. MC is understandably not wanting to dig himself into any more of a hole and he can see the opportunities that are on the horizon.

People that are being pessimistic about CCMFC should consider that they are also being pessimistic towards the HAL in Australia. The current owners have spent well over a quarter of billion dollars over the last 15 years. Some of them like the owners of SFC and the CFG have huge wealth behind them. Some like our owner less though. All these owners will be focused on making the iHAL a success.

Not all changes will be to our advantage but I fully expect investment from many overseas quarters once the HAL is truly independent to many clubs, including ours. The Australian sporting market is always looking for the next bright shiny thing. Yes - there will be more visa players, yes there will be more clubs. The behemoth that is football globally has the ability these changes and make these change quickly. Some big players are already here such as CFG - expect more in the near future.

I also expect a lot of changes to begin in the next few months in the football landscape in Australia at all levels.

 

[Forum Phoenix]

FP. Can you give us a different narrative about our owner?

Over its first decade a regional football club in Australia has built a solid little brand for itself, but due to its smaller market and lesser sponsorship drawing power, has found itself in increasingly serious financial trouble - as it battles to try and compete against the much bigger catchment areas and put title winning sides on the park.

As a result, this little club is now going under, and the P&L’s clearly show that unless a huge sponsor can be landed or the clubs share of license fees drastically change, truth is, it’s very unlikely the club will be able to be financially sustainable any time soon. It is a good club with a small passionate fan base, but to save it means anyone buying in would certainly have to go in prepared to lose money.

Charlesworth is a guy who likes football and the region well enough, and he is also just wealthy enough to step in to bail out the football club so it doesn’t go under. But he’s also not a billionaire, so it’s not the most attractive offer. But there has been some Govt support, so there is a training facility attached and development plans that may have some potential longer term pay offs for the club that could help it become sustainable, and the license itself is worth money if he was to on sell which negates sone of the risk, and the club also has a good history of developing and selling young players for good money.

So he opts to save the club, but as he’s not a billionaire, the clubs CEO is asked to now run on X budget, with the new owner saying he can only afford to lose X amount per year. (Said to be 1 million).

Club tries various money ball strategies to try and succeed on said budget but its never quite enough and the first appointment of Arnolds friend Moss as head coach proves almost fatal as he recruits poorly and wastes precious funds for multiple seasons and then is so inept the owner has no option but to sack him and pay out more funds we don’t have. It put us into a spiral right from the get go that’s going to prove to be almost impossible to pull out of.

But he doesn’t cut his losses early, he says keep the belt tight and innovate and they try various moves to try and correct the ailing ship, but they’re clearly too under resourced and too stretched, and so more mistakes ensue despite their good intentions. Like appointing Walmsley who only proves he is not yet ready for the ALeague. And we go into another poor recruitment cycle and spend good money after bad and the spiral deepens..,

I can go on... but I’m tired sorry. So I’m just going to cut to the punch line. These past 6 years have sucked hard, but the person who has reached into his own pocket, ie: actually ponied up and lost the most on this club is Mike bloody Charlesworth. He’s lost more money on this club than anyone else now by far. And yet he continues to do so. Some say its all because he’s just a greedy prick who is convinced it’s a pathway to riches and fortune. Others take issue with him being a cheap skate. True perhaps in the sense that we do need more budget and he says he can’t give it.

But this is also a guy who has lost more on this club than anyone else combined, and yet who still keeps reaching into his pocket. This makes me conclude he might actually be on our side. And not the devil a depressed and angry fan base says he is.

And I think to myself, shit, what if these are good people, doing their best to play a really f**king tough hand, losing money, grinding long hours and all I do is shit on them about it.

Bottom line, I get it as well as anyone, the fans want and need better results and that means better players to get them. But just because we need more money to secure quality players, doesn’t mean we can’t also respect and appreciate what the guy has done. And I think it makes everyone less if we don’t.

I know if I’d pumped millions into a venture that was failing, I’d understand people wanting better, but I’d also hope people would at least see and appreciate my genuine efforts and contribution. Not just shit on me, the person who has given the most, and make me the ultimate scapegoat.

 

[Wombat]

A great post FP.

The only thing I would say. His frugal approach has been an unmitigated disaster. Perhaps a new approach might be wise.

 

[Coastalraider]

Started watching We are Sunderland again last night - I think everyone involved there had great reasons behind their actions, there was no real standout incompetence, but the total sum of their decisions and actions were diabolical.

Seems familiar.

 

[Forum Phoenix]

A great post FP.

The only thing I would say. His frugal approach has been an unmitigated disaster. Perhaps a new approach might be wise.

Yeah it definitely hasn’t worked - except only to keep the club alive - albeit on life support.

I think the issue with taking a new approach has been to do otherwise requires money that he doesn’t have and the club can’t attract. Which is why they’re hopeful a new open model will give them some more levers to pull to try and bring in more funds. And why they see the stadium as key too. i even think appointments like Phelan were attempts to try and get the help of someone capable of changing their approach within their limited resources. But the way things were structured / unless CCM could consistently start pulling 12-15k per game - inside the FFA model there was no way they could ever afford to put in the funds required to match other clubs player spends.

This past year I think they’ve started to try and spend more cautiously and wisely. Which is likely Antons influence. And are much better organised in all areas relating to the actual football which is likely Staj’s influence.

So while I’m seriously worried we’re going to have no fans left. I do see some hopeful signs if we can just hang in there.

Lost a lot of battles, but we could still win the war yet.

 

[pjennings]

Worth a listen -
FFA CEO James Johnson

https://player.whooshkaa.com/episode?id=580403

 

[Elite]

Apologies if this has already been raised elsewhere but given Antons' wealth and the significant funding he is already putting into the club, could he potentially buyout Charlesworth?

 

[possum x]

Apologies if this has already been raised elsewhere but given Antons' wealth and the significant funding he is already putting into the club, could he potentially buyout Charlesworth?

I'd be pretty confident he made his money by making smart decisions !!!

 

[Insertnamehere]

I'd be pretty confident he made his money by making smart decisions !!!

Assuming he is as wealthy as speculated and I assume he's an Australian resident for taxation (which MC wouldn't be) it would be sensible to have a loss making business to reduce tax liability.

 

[FFC Mariner]

Given the market in the last week I'd say he has all the tax losses he needs for this year

 

[Ancient Mariner]

It would only make sense if your loss making venture could be turned to make balancing profits in the future.
Any losses you may make will be greater than any tax you save.

 

[Ironbark]

This club can definitely make money - they just have to look to their skills and experience.
I suggest building spoon cabinets.

 

[Pirate Pete]

Well Shaun you haven't been on here lately.
What are the plans?????

 

[BrisRecky]

HOI MIEKELKAMP...say something and no gormless platitudes please